Chargers
- Thread starter jadon
- Start date
vssjim
ALLIANCE MEMBER
http://www.usabatterychargers.com/index.html
Risk industries, these people are top notch. All products are made in Warren Michigan not imported junk like most others these days
Risk industries, these people are top notch. All products are made in Warren Michigan not imported junk like most others these days
Wow, good looking stuff, thanks.
I've got two, old reliable charges anything, just kind of slow 4amp from Western Auto, and a fancy charges only things it likes (or I put a slight charge on first) digital Schumacher from Costco that does 2/20/75. While finicky, a few minutes of 20 amps and the 75 amp start mode usually gets a car going.
Next thing I am looking to buy is a desulphating battery maintainer, but the best ones appear to be kits, not any of the "normal" charger companies.
Next thing I am looking to buy is a desulphating battery maintainer, but the best ones appear to be kits, not any of the "normal" charger companies.
Paladin
Well-known member
I've just got a Sears Die Hard 10/2/50 amp automatic charger. Nothing fancy but it works just fine for keeping the RV and boat batteries charged up.
Jeez, Good thing you chimed in! Sounds like your Schumacher is the exact 2\20\75 jobbie that I almost bought the other day. I decided I'd wait to ask here before!
I think I'll steer clear now.
Thanks,
Jadon
Mine is a good 5 years old, and I bought it for less than $20 at an outlet store selling Costco returns. People brought these back in DROVES to Costco so the outlet store had dozens of them for six months or so. Mostly it was user error, failure to read the directions and hook up the battery first, then the AC, but it still is a bit finicky. I have no idea what the current product is like, but Costco has very easy returns ...
OTOH I would have smashed the fancy digital one into a million bits if I didn't have the old Western Auto to fall back on, and put a bit of charge on a totally dead battery.
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
Most of the new chargers require that the battery have some level of voltage in them. If they are below that point, the charger will not pick up and charge them. I too have an old (about 35+ years) 4 amp charger, an ESStron made by Electric Service Systems in Minneapolis. Its the first one I go to. My other chargers are both Schumachers, one is a Manual 10 amp 6/12V, never shuts off, just tapers to near nothing, the other is a same case/housing, similar looking 10 amp, 12/24V unit that it full automatic shutoff, which goes crazy on very weak batteries, cycling on and off.
The desulfater charger sold by Harbor Freight for $99 is supposed to be one of the best on the market, from reading the dozens of reviews and comments on a number of different web sites.
Charles
The desulfater charger sold by Harbor Freight for $99 is supposed to be one of the best on the market, from reading the dozens of reviews and comments on a number of different web sites.
Charles
There is a current thread over at Bob Is The Oil Guy in which a member attempts to debunk the whole desulphation theory. It's a good read. In fact, I guess I will cut and paste it here if that's o.k.: credit "Rolf" for his "opinion"
"Here's what little I know about both the electrical and additive desulphators.
Sulfite crystals form when the battery charge is reduced and/or the discharge cycles are not well suited for the battery. These sulfite crystals act as insulators to the flow of electricity in the battery, seriously degrading the capability of the battery to have electricity flow in it, reducing its charging and discharge capability.
This takes places because the sulphate ions can bond with the lead at three successively deeper energy levels.
Level one bonds occur during normal charging and discharging. After a month or so at level one, some of the bonds form level two bonds wich require more energy to break.
After more than a month at level two the sulphate ions form level three bonds with the lead and will not conduct DC, therefore no amount of recharging will break these bonds.
So, the best desulphation is prevention: don't let the battery remain discharged and don't undercharge in use.
The desulphating lead acid battery additives contain EDTA (ethalene diamine tetra acetic acid). EDTA works by forming a complex compound with the lead sulfate layer on the plates. While this removes the insulating layer, the active material that had formed lead sulfate is not reconverted to lead.
The insulating layer of lead sulfate is removed, but active material is sacrificed in the process. Battery life is extended temporarily with the removal of the lead sulfate crystals and increase of reaction surface area, but the lifespan of the battery overall is not increased nor is capacity restored.
The thinking behind the electronic desulphators is that the crystals formed by level three bonds act as a dielectric and form a capacitive connection between the plate and electrolyte. Thus a sufficiently powerful transient pulse will pass energy through the dielectric and break apart the crystal, returning the battery from its 'sulphated' state.
The electronic desulphators pulse the battery with a high voltage. If it's going to work, it will probably take a few weeks. However, it can evaporate off the water and cause material to flake off the plates, shorting a cell which then ruins the battery.
Also it's not clear that the process restores the battery to its former capacity. Like the chemical approach, it just extends the life a bit.
Here's an odd fact: often you can restore a dead battery to life by shaking it vigorously. What happens is that the "mud" in the bottom of the cells goes back into solution or dispersion temporarily, allowing the battery to take a charge.
It then settles back down to the bottom and shorts the battery out again.
Personally I'd just buy and maintain good batteries and replace them when necessary."
"Here's what little I know about both the electrical and additive desulphators.
Sulfite crystals form when the battery charge is reduced and/or the discharge cycles are not well suited for the battery. These sulfite crystals act as insulators to the flow of electricity in the battery, seriously degrading the capability of the battery to have electricity flow in it, reducing its charging and discharge capability.
This takes places because the sulphate ions can bond with the lead at three successively deeper energy levels.
Level one bonds occur during normal charging and discharging. After a month or so at level one, some of the bonds form level two bonds wich require more energy to break.
After more than a month at level two the sulphate ions form level three bonds with the lead and will not conduct DC, therefore no amount of recharging will break these bonds.
So, the best desulphation is prevention: don't let the battery remain discharged and don't undercharge in use.
The desulphating lead acid battery additives contain EDTA (ethalene diamine tetra acetic acid). EDTA works by forming a complex compound with the lead sulfate layer on the plates. While this removes the insulating layer, the active material that had formed lead sulfate is not reconverted to lead.
The insulating layer of lead sulfate is removed, but active material is sacrificed in the process. Battery life is extended temporarily with the removal of the lead sulfate crystals and increase of reaction surface area, but the lifespan of the battery overall is not increased nor is capacity restored.
The thinking behind the electronic desulphators is that the crystals formed by level three bonds act as a dielectric and form a capacitive connection between the plate and electrolyte. Thus a sufficiently powerful transient pulse will pass energy through the dielectric and break apart the crystal, returning the battery from its 'sulphated' state.
The electronic desulphators pulse the battery with a high voltage. If it's going to work, it will probably take a few weeks. However, it can evaporate off the water and cause material to flake off the plates, shorting a cell which then ruins the battery.
Also it's not clear that the process restores the battery to its former capacity. Like the chemical approach, it just extends the life a bit.
Here's an odd fact: often you can restore a dead battery to life by shaking it vigorously. What happens is that the "mud" in the bottom of the cells goes back into solution or dispersion temporarily, allowing the battery to take a charge.
It then settles back down to the bottom and shorts the battery out again.
Personally I'd just buy and maintain good batteries and replace them when necessary."
Regarding chargers, there seems to be the old transformer type and the new solid state "smart" chargers. The smart chargers claim to be more efficient and faster (per rated amp) and that they "read" the battery condition and apply the best rate/type of charge for the battery.
When shopping last year, it was hard for me to believe that the lightweight, down sized smart charges could do the job of the traditional old types.
Here's another company that seems to have good stuff: http://www.interacter.com/
This brand has the heft of the old chargers, but claims to be microprocessor controlled, i.e., "smart".
Also, in my shopping, it seems that in the old days, bigger is better was always being pushed. Now, everyone says slower charging is best and for average automotive use, less than 10 to 12 amps is plenty.
When shopping last year, it was hard for me to believe that the lightweight, down sized smart charges could do the job of the traditional old types.
Here's another company that seems to have good stuff: http://www.interacter.com/
This brand has the heft of the old chargers, but claims to be microprocessor controlled, i.e., "smart".
Also, in my shopping, it seems that in the old days, bigger is better was always being pushed. Now, everyone says slower charging is best and for average automotive use, less than 10 to 12 amps is plenty.
Two common ways to convert power, simple transformers, and switch mode.
Simple transformer has an input made of wire sized to match 120vac, diameter to handle the current, and length and number of windings to create a "matching" impedance that sets the power transferred.
Switch mode is a typical computer power supply. 120vac comes in and some type of semiconductor device switches the connection to the input of a transformer at a high rate, like 60k times a second. Instead of a 60 hz sine wave the transformer sees a modulated 60k square wave. Impedance of a transformer (any coil) depends on frequency, and with the frequency 1000 times higher than 60 hz a much smaller transformer with fewer windings is required. No mystery, it works, and robust devices are now fairly cheap. This type of power supply can also be VERY efficient like 95% compared to more like 50% for simple transformers.
*** That post on desulphation was interesting, but sounded like pure theory, ie why he thinks it might do this or that. The pro desulphating guys are all about practice, solar power and reusing discarded batteries, so I suspect it does in fact work, and work pretty well. I think its tough to market this type of product. If its well made you will only buy it once, and battery vendors will lose sales, so nobody really wants to sell it.
Simple transformer has an input made of wire sized to match 120vac, diameter to handle the current, and length and number of windings to create a "matching" impedance that sets the power transferred.
Switch mode is a typical computer power supply. 120vac comes in and some type of semiconductor device switches the connection to the input of a transformer at a high rate, like 60k times a second. Instead of a 60 hz sine wave the transformer sees a modulated 60k square wave. Impedance of a transformer (any coil) depends on frequency, and with the frequency 1000 times higher than 60 hz a much smaller transformer with fewer windings is required. No mystery, it works, and robust devices are now fairly cheap. This type of power supply can also be VERY efficient like 95% compared to more like 50% for simple transformers.
*** That post on desulphation was interesting, but sounded like pure theory, ie why he thinks it might do this or that. The pro desulphating guys are all about practice, solar power and reusing discarded batteries, so I suspect it does in fact work, and work pretty well. I think its tough to market this type of product. If its well made you will only buy it once, and battery vendors will lose sales, so nobody really wants to sell it.
Major Ramifications
Well-known member
The best Charger is a Dodge Charger. I thought everybody already knew that.
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
You could have at least added a smiley face or two after it. There is an **** in every crowd
I did about the same thing in the thread on where you stored your files..... in the file drawer of course.
Charles
Vinko
Well-known member
When I was looking for a charger, which I never bought -- I read a lot of reviews and talked to some neigborhood guys who all had good things to say about the basic Sears Diehard charger but not the fancy one, which with all the bells and whistles, seemed to **** the bed rather regularly.
HOTFR8
Banned
Battery Tenders - C-Tek or Deltrans as they maintain a battery and extend the life.
Recently I purchased an EVA Power what is to be used as a 12 Volt power supply (for a small fridge I use in my Camper trailer). It is a switchable unit from 12 volt power supply to a Battery Charger. I had trouble with the car in the heat draining the battery. I set it to charge and in 10 or 15 minutes the car would start again.
Recently I purchased an EVA Power what is to be used as a 12 Volt power supply (for a small fridge I use in my Camper trailer). It is a switchable unit from 12 volt power supply to a Battery Charger. I had trouble with the car in the heat draining the battery. I set it to charge and in 10 or 15 minutes the car would start again.
I have had good luck with my Deltran Battery Tender Jr. on my motorcycle battery.
rcleaver
Well-known member
I used a cheap HF smart charger to charge a dead battery in my old SUV. I was surprised that it worked -- took about 8 hours though.
CTEK. Do your research and you'll come to the same conclusion. Very versatile as well -- their better model has a "supply" mode that lets the car continue to function as if the battery was there, even after you remove it. fwiw, CTEK is who makes the Porsche, MB, and Ferrari chargers.