Chaser Kits?/Chasers VS Taps

[HarrisonTX]

I'm about to build a small block chevy. I really want to chase the threads before I assemble the motor. I really feel like I get a far more accurate tourqe reading with clean threads.

I have a brand new Snap-On tap & Die set, but I fear the taps, being so new they may cut some threads.

I've heard of people using taps, but they're generally a bit older, and worn, so the fear of cutting metal isnt such an issue.

Does anyone have a decent SAE thread chaser kit they can point me too.
Decent. Somewhere between Snap on, and garbage. Just decent

 

[texasprd]

Sears/Craftsman

If you look at the online images of Snap On and Craftsman, they look exactly the same (same colors on the metrics, same on SAE fine, same on file grips). Just different lables on the case and a huge difference in price...

You are right to go with a chaser set, not a cutting set. Cutting set will likely remove metal, which you don't want to do. If you can't find male chasers in the right size, take a bolt of the proper size and cut slots in the threads (Dremel, hacksaw) to accomplish the same thing - just clean any debris out of your new, home-made, tool thumbup before using it...

 

[dsmnickk90]

Snap-on and craftsman are both made by Kastar

 

[texasprd]

Thanks - I didn't know who the manufacturer was, but I strongly suspected it was the same manufacturer for both brands. So buy it at Sears and save a lot of money compared to Snap On.

You may be able to get the equivalent even cheaper elsewhere - try the on-line tool stores...

 

[MechanicNamedJohn]

The Mac set is the same also as the CMAN and SO. I thought Irwin made them? Either way they are great I use them almost everyday.

 

[Wrench 2201]

Kastar makes the sets sold by SO, Cman, Mac, and Matco. I got the Matco set because it had 51 pieces vs. the 48 pc. set found everywhere else. I looked everywhere but couldn't find it so I just got it off the truck one day. I can't seem to find the part number on Matco's website, if I remember I'll look at it tomorrow and post it here.

 

[OccupantRJ]

So, are thread chasers H1, H2, H3, H4, H5, H6, or H7 tolerance? If a thread chaser is H7, it will attempt to cut threads in a hole tapped with a H1 tap. If a tap is H1, it will not attempt to cut threads in a hole tapped with a H7 tap. So with this info, which is better to clean out a tapped hole, as far as tolerance? A thread chaser, or a tap? Think about it. There are normally 3 types of taps in a set. A taper, plug, and bottom. There are at least 7 tolerances available for each tap. This gives 21 possibilities of any particular tap being used to tap a hole. Which thread chaser will be the correct one to use? What about clearing holes that were produced with thread forming taps? Do we also use a chaser for them? If so, which tolerance?

 

[sdguy55]

So, are thread chasers H1, H2, H3, H4, H5, H6, or H7 tolerance? If a thread chaser is H7, it will attempt to cut threads in a hole tapped with a H1 tap. If a tap is H1, it will not attempt to cut threads in a hole tapped with a H7 tap. So with this info, which is better to clean out a tapped hole, as far as tolerance? A thread chaser, or a tap? Think about it. There are normally 3 types of taps in a set. A taper, plug, and bottom. There are at least 7 tolerances available for each tap. This gives 21 possibilities of any particular tap being used to tap a hole. Which thread chaser will be the correct one to use? What about clearing holes that were produced with thread forming taps? Do we also use a chaser for them? If so, which tolerance?

Yes because im sure info like this is readily available for anyone working on anything. Lets be realistic here. Im betting if younhadnt pointed that out it wouldnt (prob still doesnt) make any difference at all

 

[Jeeper]

I bought the craftsman 40 piece set and it's very handy. Only regret is I wish I had gotten the 48 piece set but they didn't carry it in the store.

Was doing some work on a 5.4 Ford motor and a few holes in the aluminum timing cover were a little off. The thread chaser cleaned them up perfect. Very handy tool to have.

 

[WILD-BILL]

FWIW, When we were building the motor for my drag car, the machine shop bottom tapped all the holes.

I also have the CM set of chasers and I don't think they are long enough to get down into the deeper holes like the head bolt holes to get those threads cleaned up.

I could be wrong though. Never worked on a chevy motor to know how deep they go.

 

[jrlp]

I'd have no issue cleaning threaded holes with a tap, as long as it's not a bottoming tap on real dirty threads. I'll usually take care to get it started straight. I have a little rule I do on customer's cars that see hard services / racing / don't mind paying extra for details..

1.) brake cleaner the threads as much as possible, followed by blowing out with an air gun
2.) use a ss toothbrush to clean the outer threads as much as possible. repeat #1
3.) pump a squirt of rapidtap down the hole and get the tap started by hand
4.) run the tap down
5.) brake cleaner + airgun to clean the hole up

There really is no functional difference between cleaning a threaded hole with **** in it than bottom tapping the same hole.

Don't worry about fubaring existing threads, it won't happen unless you chose the wrong size/thread tap, or you start it crooked.

 

[OccupantRJ]

I'd have no issue cleaning threaded holes with a tap, as long as it's not a bottoming tap on real dirty threads. I'll usually take care to get it started straight. I have a little rule I do on customer's cars that see hard services / racing / don't mind paying extra for details..

1.) brake cleaner the threads as much as possible, followed by blowing out with an air gun
2.) use a ss toothbrush to clean the outer threads as much as possible. repeat #1
3.) pump a squirt of rapidtap down the hole and get the tap started by hand
4.) run the tap down
5.) brake cleaner + airgun to clean the hole up

There really is no functional difference between cleaning a threaded hole with **** in it than bottom tapping the same hole.

Don't worry about fubaring existing threads, it won't happen unless you chose the wrong size/thread tap, or you start it crooked.

My point exactly. Unless you have the capability and the proper thread gauges to test tapped holes, it's a **** shoot anyway. Therefore, I consider thread chasers to be a waste of my time and money, since I have plenty of taps, both at work, and in my home shop. However, if you are a service mechanic in a garage instead of a machinist, it makes sense to keep a kit of chasers, for the convenience of storage and usage alone. I don't think the average backyard guy needing to clean out threads will have problems if he uses a proper thread tap from his local hardware store, as they are likely to be basic or H1 tolerance anyway, which cuts the smaller hole in the series. The larger H series taps are used in materials like bronze, which tends to "swell" and then shrink during and after tapping, resulting in a tight hole afterwards. There is .0005 diference in the H sizes, H1 being the smaller, going upwards in size numerically. This allows one to fit the fastener into the tapped hole properly, for many reasons. Heat expansion, cold shrinkage, and clamping force being three. The L series goes undersize in the opposite direction. The G on a tap indicates it has ground threads. Check out manufacturer's websites such as Greenfield or American tool. There is lots of information on taps to be found there.

 

[JASTECH]

jrlp has the correct idea, fwiw. That's how I use to do it with Bob M. and Rick S. years ago when 1/4 mile was my thing. I ran new checked bolts down the holes, makes sure pitch is still good via stressing. We buried the blocks w/heads to season them.

 

[W650Mike]

Lots of Matco and Snap-on chaser set in Pawn Shops. I picked up a perfect SO set for $45 and have used it extensively.

I'm sure Occupant is technically correct, but I don't have 27 taps for every size. I'm not sure that I have 1 tap for every size. But then again, I'm only trying to clean threads.

 

[OccupantRJ]

Lots of Matco and Snap-on chaser set in Pawn Shops. I picked up a perfect SO set for $45 and have used it extensively.

I'm sure Occupant is technically correct, but I don't have 27 taps for every size. I'm not sure that I have 1 tap for every size. But then again, I'm only trying to clean threads.

Hell, when I was a kid, I would take a spare bolt, file some notches in it, and use it to clean tapped holes. Now I just grab a basic bottom tap of the correct thread and have at it. Never had an issue yet. I am only presenting this other information for those who may have a more in depth interest, and to show that having the "proper tool" is often a matter of perception, and what a person has been exposed to. Just don't use an H7 tap or you may end up with a bolt that will rattle in the hole.

 

[OccupantRJ]

Check out these cool external thread chasers.

http://murraycorp.com/split-die-tool.html?gclid=CO6_otCux7ICFQsGnQodHCIASQ

And here is one thread pitch gage for those who are not familiar with them.

http://murraycorp.com/tri-guage-tool.html

Thread files for repairing banged up external threads are also available.

http://www.use-enco.com/1/1/85845-made-usa-fix-thread-restorer-thread-restoring-file-sets.html

 

[george4]

Check out these cool external thread chasers.

http://murraycorp.com/split-die-tool.html?gclid=CO6_otCux7ICFQsGnQodHCIASQ

Those split chasers are very interesting, I was not aware they existed. Any one have experience with them?

 

[wafrederick]

I run into new parts I have to run a tap through the threads.The threads were not right from the factory,in waterpumps and one tracking arm for a 1999 Dodge Ram pickup.The bolts go in a little hard at first.The tracking arm,grease fitting would not go in since the threads in the track arm were not done right at the factory.

 

[OccupantRJ]

I've gotten so suspicious of manufacturing quality that I now check every bolt hole in a mechanical part before I even attempt to install it. Not much worse than getting into a contortionist position to find that the subject bolt or hole has issues. I have amassed quite the collection of SAE, metric, and pipe taps and dies over time. My son is learning to be premptive also. He tore down a Sea-do engine recently and tapped every hole in it before assembly using antisieze. Every hole had crud in it.

 

[A_Pmech]

So, are thread chasers H1, H2, H3, H4, H5, H6, or H7 tolerance?

Thanks for the giggle Occupant.

 

[Packard V8]

It's possible to overthink a simple thing. My engine machinist has been building quality for thirty years. He grabs whatever tap is handy, chucks it into an air drill and zings 'em in and out.

I'd been agonizing over using thread chasers and doing each hole by hand, blowing and whatever. He said, "If you're only ever going to do one, play around. If you're doing it every day, git 'er done." He never ever has comebacks from bolt hole problems.

jack vines

 

[OccupantRJ]

It's possible to overthink a simple thing. My engine machinist has been building quality for thirty years. He grabs whatever tap is handy, chucks it into an air drill and zings 'em in and out.

I'd been agonizing over using thread chasers and doing each hole by hand, blowing and whatever. He said, "If you're only ever going to do one, play around. If you're doing it every day, git 'er done." He never ever has comebacks from bolt hole problems.

jack vines

And I bet he WON'T. I use an H1 bottom tap in a battery drill because the variable speed works well for this.

 

[BFHtime]

The Snap-on dyes are not the same,there is a koolaide sipping difference. The Snap-on dyes have 12 points around them and a set screw/ick screw to adjust the inner diameter of the dye. You can adjust how much the dye cuts. They looked great, very nice. I didn't buy them as I have a craftsman set that has over 70 pieces that has worked well for me, except for hardened metals. I think it was over $300. I like how the tolerance could be adjusted. It good to know that you can get them like that. One could probably buy the separate dyes, if a situation arose that one was needed.

I have pictures of some of the older sets that look the same from just about all the tool companies same case, just different color, and everything. I have seen the pictures on here too. It usually one of the first things to come up in the tool truck bashing threads.

The new sets are not the same.

I put all that **** there because I do not want an argument, but I like to share information, as I get quite a bit from this site. I apologize for the verboseness. "hey W is that a word"? LOL.

 

[TexasT]

what i have used

Ive used these on countless builds. Definitely budget. They also offer stuff with a brand name, and the jump in price that goes with.

If you have more money than me

 

[s14kev]

Easier to buy what you need individually. Try:

www.jawco.com

Pricelist is online and prices are very reasonable. Made in the USA also. The Kastar (craftsman/snapon) kits give you a bunch of stuff you usually don't need. Almost everything I work on is metric so why buy SAE? Plus the Kastar box is huge and difficult to store however I would have a hard time throwing it out if I owned it. I keep my jawco rethreaders in a tiny plastic box.

I thoroughly support Kastar and any US manufacturer. I also like to support smaller domestic manufacturers so jawco gets my vote.

 

[Toolhorder]

I'm just a dealer tech for Toyota but I use thread chaser tap/dies when I have dirty/rusty threads and cutter tap/dies when I'm making new threads after drilling out a bolt or something. I've found using cutting taps/dies for cleaning threads takes too much material off the threads and the bolts or nuts are too "loose" fitting afterwards.

 

[lilscorpion]

Been using taps in engine blocks to chase holes since I was 16. Back then I was learning and screwed up a few here and there but managed to work through them with helicoils a time or two - impatience was the cause, older and more experienced friends got me through it.

I have so damn many taps and they work for me. I'd can't justify buying chasers.

Anyone ever seize a chaser in a screwed up hole? Curious...I'd figure you could. Ya ain't gonna seize a tap in a hole but break it off you could.