Cheap compressor condenser

[MoPar/Kid]

I'm looking to purchase a 60gal 5hp 2 stage stand-up Quincy compressor for auto body paint and general use. I'm looking for an easy/cheap condenser to mount directly off the motor deck as space and simplicity is the concern. I wont be doing a lot of painting, so it dosent have to be 100% effective. I also plan to plumb a few water trap and desiccant filter about 20' away.

The idea I got (guy on youtube link), is to use an automotive A/C condenser. However, since I'm not really familiar with basic compressor function and plumbing, I'm definitely in need of some suggestions to improve upon this idea and prevent any potential issues.

My main concern is restriction. Idk if there's an automotive condenser with lines larger then 3/8. I dont want a long bleed-off, so I was considering mounting the check valve right off the head? I plan to use plastic plumbing between the tank and trap/filter. Any issues with this? What size should I use?

This is what I have in mind. Dont know if the trap on the condenser will be effective, but cant hurt . I'd surely appreciate any and all suggestions/ideas.

Thanks GJ

 

[rburke65]

Hello and welcome from Ohio! By condenser are you referring to a dryer for the co pressed air?

 

[600SL]

Kind of one of the things I was considering. I would leave the check valve in the tank.

Tilt the condenser so that the trap will be effective and put an automatic drain on the condenser trap.

 

[MoPar/Kid]

Hello and welcome from Ohio! By condenser are you referring to a dryer for the co pressed air?

Thanks!

I think so, but not sure of the difference. Basically an air cooler as to reduce condensation, so yeah, a dryer lol.

Kind of one of the things I was considering. I would leave the check valve in the tank.

Tilt the condenser so that the trap will be effective and put an automatic drain on the condenser trap.

Only thing with the check valve in the tank is it'd hiss for while after every cycle. Not a big deal, but the quincy is already a pretty quite compressor, so I'd like to keep the noise to a minimum. Not sure if the check valve could live at those temps being mounted right to the head. I like the idea of automatic drains. I'll look into that

 

[MoPar/Kid]

The filter I'm looking at is a 3 stage Devilbiss Qc3. It seems people are having good results with this filter. I plan to use it for paint only (stand alone hose as well). Not that I want to cheap out on a filter for paint, but if anyone has other suggestions for something better at a similar price, or a cheaper equivalent I'd love to hear it.

 

[roofster]

I had an auto condenser plumbed between the pump and tank with a 3/8" tube on the output side (input was larger) and I finally realized it was a big restriction that dropped CFM from 17 to 12. The compressor in the video probably doesn't put out the CFM your Quincy will, so likely you'll see a drop. If you want full CFM then use an AKG aftercooler.

PVC pipe is not recommended for compressed air. It can explode.

 

[redmondjp]

The word you are looking for, if the heat exchanger is between the compressor and the receiver (tank), is 'aftercooler.' It has been done before using an automotive air conditioning condenser (search on here). I've actually got one that I have been saving for years off of one of my former cars, intending to do the same thing (have never gotten around to it yet) but the one issue for me is how to reliably couple to the fittings on the condenser.

If the cooler is mounted between the first and second stages of the compressor, it's called an intercooler. My Quincy 325 has both an intercooler and (optional factory-installed) plate aftercooler which has 3/4" pipe fittings on the inlet and outlet.

I think one of the best bang-for-the-buck coolers (and there are some pretty elaborate ones detailed in multiple threads on this forum) and easiest-to-make is the coil of copper tubing, sometimes installed between the compressor and the tank, with a water trap at the end of it. Many good threads on here about how to do this.

 

[Kaizen]

I used 10 pieces of 3/4 black iron pipe on my compressor to remove water. I have them mounted on the wall behind my compressor going back and forth with 90's from low to high and constantly pitched to have moisture roll back to near compressor where I have a t fitting and pipe going down to a drain. also have one near the end where my hose connects after the filter. passive and besides a little cfm loss works great. I can sand blast no problem which is the reason I needed to do this. my compressor was throwing out so much water it was ridiculous.
but after all was done I still spent about 250 on this set up with all the fittings so not exactly cheap. ended up to be about the price of a good debliss desiccant filter.

 

[BigGMC]

Just remembered a thought I had back when I read some other post about aftercooling:
Anyone use old (or new if not too expensive) lengths of hydronic baseboard heater? It's copper pipe with aluminum fins attached(for those in the southern climates.... lol).
Would bleed off heat much more effectivly than plain 'ol black iron.

 

[MoPar/Kid]

The word you are looking for, if the heat exchanger is between the compressor and the receiver (tank), is 'aftercooler.' It has been done before using an automotive air conditioning condenser (search on here). I've actually got one that I have been saving for years off of one of my former cars, intending to do the same thing (have never gotten around to it yet) but the one issue for me is how to reliably couple to the fittings on the condenser.

If the cooler is mounted between the first and second stages of the compressor, it's called an intercooler. My Quincy 325 has both an intercooler and (optional factory-installed) plate aftercooler which has 3/4" pipe fittings on the inlet and outlet.

I think one of the best bang-for-the-buck coolers (and there are some pretty elaborate ones detailed in multiple threads on this forum) and easiest-to-make is the coil of copper tubing, sometimes installed between the compressor and the tank, with a water trap at the end of it. Many good threads on here about how to do this.

Thanks for clearing that up. I spent a few hours reading through various aftercooler threads, and I think the cheapest and easiest would be two large franzinator's with all iron plumbing. I didn't think something so simple would be so effective. A lot cheaper and easier then a radiator type aftercooler and fan.

Thanks again redmondjp, searching "air compressor aftercooler" nets far better results.

 

[600SL]

What your trying to make is what is included in Saylor Beall's performance package. They call it an after cooler. It looks like an automotive AC condenser placed in front of the Motor. The motor has a fan on it to **** more air across the condenser.

Visit this web sight and select "Performance Package"

http://www.saylor-beall.com/documents/brochures

 

[redmondjp]

Thanks for clearing that up. I spent a few hours reading through various aftercooler threads, and I think the cheapest and easiest would be two large franzinator's with all iron plumbing. I didn't think something so simple would be so effective. A lot cheaper and easier then a radiator type aftercooler and fan.

Thanks again redmondjp, searching "air compressor aftercooler" nets far better results.

No problem - having the right keywords is the trick to successful googling. And oftentimes, it's harder to figure out what those magic keywords are than finding the information afterwards.

 

[AP514]

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50946&page=12 post 230..

I have smaller compressor but they have larger coolers anb us bigger lines

 

[roofster]

I think I was around $100 to build one Franzinator and I am disappointed with it's performance. It does not collect much water at all. When I had the condenser set-up, it collected much more water. The Franz also gets hot. A second one would also just get hot, given enough run time.

 

[MoPar/Kid]

I think I was around $100 to build one Franzinator and I am disappointed with it's performance. It does not collect much water at all. When I had the condenser set-up, it collected much more water. The Franz also gets hot. A second one would also just get hot, given enough run time.

How tall, what diameter, and what material was your franz? I was gonna make mine from 3" iron about 8' tall. I really need to keep the cost bellow 500 on all the plumbing, including filter and hose (Aftercooler + 25' of pipe/fittings/valves + filter + 50' hose). Anything other then an automotive condenser or homemade is out of my budget. I was also considering doing a (static) water cooled copper coil. But don't know how I'd coil the copper or how much I'd need.

Looks like some people have used large oil coolers with 1/2"-3/4" inlets, but requires a fan since there's really not enough surface area to cool by itself, the fans aren't cheap (at least ones I've seen).

 

[roofster]

My franz is 2" sch 40 black pipe. It's about 36 or 37" long. Copper tube is expensive and 3/8" would probably restrict flow, so 1/2". Go price 50 to 100' of that. Putting the coil in a bucket of cold water means the water needs to be kept cool and you need a method to collect and drain the water out of the coil also.

A simple $20 wal-mart box fan was all I used to blow across my condenser. I turned it on/off manually.

Several guys here have used the AKG aftercooler I mentioned with success. I doubt you could build a pair of Franz like mine for much less, let alone the one you speak off.

Air comes out of my pump near 300F and is going into the Franz at 170 or better. Portions of my Franz can be 120 to 140 after a few cycles. If the air needs to cooled below a dewpoint of 80 or 100 degrees, how often will 4 gallons of water in a bucket need to be changed? I'm sure, more than I want too

I have the room and what I've thought I'll try next is put 40' or so feet of pipe before the aftercooler, perhaps even run some outside and back into the building, which would give me great cooling this time of year and then my water separator after the aftercooler.

At about $200 for your filter and $220 for an aftercooler, you should be close to $500 with your 25' of pipe and 50' hose. 1/2" pipe should be fine, 3/4" might provide a smidge more cooling. Another choice is simply skip the cooler device for now and drain your air tank regularly and rely on pipe length and routing and your filter to keep water out.

There is a thread here, where a guy built a pretty neat desiccant filter complete with sight glass to eye the desiccant.