In my quest for cheap heat alt, i was told by a buddy of mine that he used an elec hot water heater, best effiency he could find and a ford truck radiator with an elec fan behind it to heat his big insulated garage . 40x60 is that even possible?? he also said that years ago his buddy used a hot water heater as heat for the in floor radiant heat, he would fire it up a month before cold weather and it would work fine, and body hear of this? methods working?
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cheap heat
- Thread starter mad57
- Start date
slopecarver
Well-known member
A waste oil heater would be cheapest and an electric heater is darn near 100% efficient, a watt out of the wall is a watt of heat in the air. An electric floor heat system will be less efficient when heat escapes into the ground but the perceived heat will be higher when the floor is warm thus requiring less energy to heat. In floor heat is only good for a floor you will spend a bunch of time on because they take forever to heat up.
In my quest for cheap heat alt, i was told by a buddy of mine that he used an elec hot water heater, best effiency he could find and a ford truck radiator with an elec fan behind it to heat his big insulated garage . 40x60 is that even possible?? he also said that years ago his buddy used a hot water heater as heat for the in floor radiant heat, he would fire it up a month before cold weather and it would work fine, and body hear of this? methods working?
Am I understanding your question that he used the hot water from the tank circulated it thru the truck radiator then used a fan to move the heated air around the shop? I have seen cold water circulated thru a truck radiator with a fan to cool a shop....
Am I understanding your question that he used the hot water from the tank circulated it thru the truck radiator then used a fan to move the heated air around the shop? I have seen cold water circulated thru a truck radiator with a fan to cool a shop....
YES thats what he claims, said it worked well, i see how it could but just wonder on how many btus it throws.
slopecarver
Well-known member
If you really want to use a water heater and a truck radiator with a fan you will also need a pump to recirculate the water. Set the fan and pump on a thermostat and leave the water heater on all the time during the cold months. this won't be any more efficient than an electric heater of some sort, probably less so because the water heater will be on all the time and you'd need to run a pump along with the fan.
lessersivad
Well-known member
In my quest for cheap heat alt, i was told by a buddy of mine that he used an elec hot water heater, best effiency he could find and a ford truck radiator with an elec fan behind it to heat his big insulated garage . 40x60 is that even possible?? he also said that years ago his buddy used a hot water heater as heat for the in floor radiant heat, he would fire it up a month before cold weather and it would work fine, and body hear of this? methods working?
I don't know about heating THAT large of an area with the set up described but I would say it "could" work.
Also, I'm not trying to start an argument about pump vs. no pump.
With the radiator mounted above the water heater with the lines (hoses) run at a downward angle from the radiator to the water heater with no droops or high spots, also the "hot" going to the top of the radiator, cold returning to the "cold" or supply line of the water heater, the wonders of thermosyphon will do the job. No pump required.
I would recommend a "puke" tank of some sort to allow for coolant expansion.
Just my 2¢.
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5lima30
Well-known member
How about a wood stove?
rlitman
Well-known member
Electric heat is 100% efficient if the heater is inside the room. Doesn't matter if you're heating water and recirculating it through a radiator, or using a small electric heater.
The only reason I could think that heating a tank of water would be advantageous, would be if you had a time-of-use electric meter and could heat the tank overnight for cheap, and then release the heat during the day. Still, I don't think a 50 gallon tank would hold enough heat to make it worthwhile.
The only reason I could think that heating a tank of water would be advantageous, would be if you had a time-of-use electric meter and could heat the tank overnight for cheap, and then release the heat during the day. Still, I don't think a 50 gallon tank would hold enough heat to make it worthwhile.
In my quest for cheap heat alt, i was told by a buddy of mine that he used an elec hot water heater, best effiency he could find and a ford truck radiator with an elec fan behind it to heat his big insulated garage . 40x60 is that even possible?? he also said that years ago his buddy used a hot water heater as heat for the in floor radiant heat, he would fire it up a month before cold weather and it would work fine, and body hear of this? methods working?
The concept seems sound but not sure about how large an area it would heat, Let me know if you go for it and take some photos please i am still undecided on how to heat our new 30x40x12 metal garage its fully insulated...
ripsnortMN
Well-known member
Yes electric heat is %100 efficient but it is also expensive as hell.
How about a wood stove?
Yep, cheap heat, I'll agree with that. That's of course if you can cut your own wood. If you have to purchase wood to burn, it puts you inline with other heat sources.
ptschram
Well-known member
why couldn't you hook up a programmable thermostat on a hot water heater?
It doesn't recover fast enough and you'd never get warm. BTDT, tried it in my house with hot water heat. It kept getting colder and colder and colder and then the wife said NO!
It doesn't recover fast enough and you'd never get warm. BTDT, tried it in my house with hot water heat. It kept getting colder and colder and colder and then the wife said NO!
but the hot water would be contained within the system, you wont be dumping the hot water out of the system. basically recirculating hot water.
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ptschram
Well-known member
but the hot water would be contained within the system, you wont be dumping the hot water out of the system. basically recirculating hot water.
And neither was I doing that with my home heating system. If you don't circulate the heat constantly, the room temp will fall so low that it won't recover and the next thing you know, you're cold.
If you're gonna try something like this (that I don't think would work to heat such a big space) you really need to keep the water heater heating 24/7 and the circulation pumps running 24/7.
These types of system are not efficient at all. You have to heat the water, then you have to transfer the heat from the water to the air, and repeat.
pro machine Engineering
Well-known member
a guy fed you a line like that and you took the bait. wow
And neither was I doing that with my home heating system. If you don't circulate the heat constantly, the room temp will fall so low that it won't recover and the next thing you know, you're cold.
If you're gonna try something like this (that I don't think would work to heat such a big space) you really need to keep the water heater heating 24/7 and the circulation pumps running 24/7.
These types of system are not efficient at all. You have to heat the water, then you have to transfer the heat from the water to the air, and repeat.
also a garage is one room, the heater would be in the same room you were heating, so you also have radiant heat involved. i dunno, i wouldnt want to buy a new water heater and pump to find out it wouldnt work... i also wouldnt try it on a large polebarn or garage maybe something like a 24x30 insulated garage.
might be something to tinker with if you found a free hot water heater that was in decent shape..
If you really want to use a water heater and a truck radiator with a fan you will also need a pump to recirculate the water.
Not if you put the radiator above the level of the water heater -- convection will circulate the water -- it worked well enough for Model T's (though you may need to turn the radiator so that the tubes are vertical.)
The only reason I could think that heating a tank of water would be advantageous, would be if you had a time-of-use electric meter and could heat the tank overnight for cheap, and then release the heat during the day. Still, I don't think a 50 gallon tank would hold enough heat to make it worthwhile.
Depends on the fuel used for the water heater. If its electric, I wouldn't bother. If its natural gas, it's likely cheaper than running an electric heater.
ptschram
Well-known member
a guy fed you a line like that and you took the bait. wow
X2. The local old-time hardware store has hot water heat and "radiators" around the sales floor But, I suspect it isn't the only source of heat, and their heat source is likely much larger than a water heater.
6768rogues
Banned
This is absolutely correct. Unless there is cheap electric at a specific time of day, you might as well buy cheap electric resistance heaters. Heat exchangers are not 100% efficient. Changing electricity to hot water then to hot air is not as efficient as making hot air directly with electricity. Plus you will probably use a fan and a pump with the hot water system.Electric heat is 100% efficient if the heater is inside the room. Doesn't matter if you're heating water and recirculating it through a radiator, or using a small electric heater.
The only reason I could think that heating a tank of water would be advantageous, would be if you had a time-of-use electric meter and could heat the tank overnight for cheap, and then release the heat during the day. Still, I don't think a 50 gallon tank would hold enough heat to make it worthwhile.
Well a electric hot water heater is either 2500 watts or 4500 watts, There are some that are 5000 to 5500 watts. Most in my area are 4500 watts. 1000 watts equals about 3500 btu, so a water heater is about 15,750 btu if it is the 4500 watt type. That said there is most of the time two heat elements in a heater. Both the top and the bottom are the same watts. They are controlled so that only one element is on at any time. But if you are using it for heating your shop then you may rewire it and you can use both elements at the same time. Now you have a 31,500 btu heater and that is about the same as a small hanging gas heater.
I am in minnesota where it gets very cold. -20F to -30F at night I have a 1900 vintage two story 54' by 28' farm house. Think huge. I used propane for my heat. When the price first when sky high in 2000, It was costing me 600.00 a month for dec and jan and feb for heat. This is after the walls were insulated and the attic was insulated. At the same time I loss my income. Jan 2001. When winter hit in 2001 I could not pay 1000 dollars for a tank of propane. I found an old water heater at the recycle center and talked them into letting me have it. Cleaned it out and replaced the heating element, then plumbed it into my water hot heat system. So I know what they can do. Will one heat my whole house all winter. Yes it did. Will it keep it at 72 degrees when it is -20 outside No. Did I live yes and the house sometimes would get down to 60F. But if the temp outside was 20F or warmer it would keep the house warm and cycle on and off just like the propane broiler.
About cost. They can be very expensive if your electric rate is high. In my case the electric co has a duel fuel rate. This rate equals 1.49 a gallon propane. so they can also be cheaper to run than propane. Ps when my propane supplier called this year with his so called super rate of 1.99 per gallon, I told him that electric was cheaper and that they were priced out of my market. Feels good to tell them that.
Jeff
I am in minnesota where it gets very cold. -20F to -30F at night I have a 1900 vintage two story 54' by 28' farm house. Think huge. I used propane for my heat. When the price first when sky high in 2000, It was costing me 600.00 a month for dec and jan and feb for heat. This is after the walls were insulated and the attic was insulated. At the same time I loss my income. Jan 2001. When winter hit in 2001 I could not pay 1000 dollars for a tank of propane. I found an old water heater at the recycle center and talked them into letting me have it. Cleaned it out and replaced the heating element, then plumbed it into my water hot heat system. So I know what they can do. Will one heat my whole house all winter. Yes it did. Will it keep it at 72 degrees when it is -20 outside No. Did I live yes and the house sometimes would get down to 60F. But if the temp outside was 20F or warmer it would keep the house warm and cycle on and off just like the propane broiler.
About cost. They can be very expensive if your electric rate is high. In my case the electric co has a duel fuel rate. This rate equals 1.49 a gallon propane. so they can also be cheaper to run than propane. Ps when my propane supplier called this year with his so called super rate of 1.99 per gallon, I told him that electric was cheaper and that they were priced out of my market. Feels good to tell them that.
Jeff
Well a electric hot water heater is either 2500 watts or 4500 watts, There are some that are 5000 to 5500 watts. Most in my area are 4500 watts. 1000 watts equals about 3500 btu, so a water heater is about 15,750 btu if it is the 4500 watt type. That said there is most of the time two heat elements in a heater. Both the top and the bottom are the same watts. They are controlled so that only one element is on at any time. But if you are using it for heating your shop then you may rewire it and you can use both elements at the same time. Now you have a 31,500 btu heater and that is about the same as a small hanging gas heater.
I am in minnesota where it gets very cold. -20F to -30F at night I have a 1900 vintage two story 54' by 28' farm house. Think huge. I used propane for my heat. When the price first when sky high in 2000, It was costing me 600.00 a month for dec and jan and feb for heat. This is after the walls were insulated and the attic was insulated. At the same time I loss my income. Jan 2001. When winter hit in 2001 I could not pay 1000 dollars for a tank of propane. I found an old water heater at the recycle center and talked them into letting me have it. Cleaned it out and replaced the heating element, then plumbed it into my water hot heat system. So I know what they can do. Will one heat my whole house all winter. Yes it did. Will it keep it at 72 degrees when it is -20 outside No. Did I live yes and the house sometimes would get down to 60F. But if the temp outside was 20F or warmer it would keep the house warm and cycle on and off just like the propane broiler.
About cost. They can be very expensive if your electric rate is high. In my case the electric co has a duel fuel rate. This rate equals 1.49 a gallon propane. so they can also be cheaper to run than propane. Ps when my propane supplier called this year with his so called super rate of 1.99 per gallon, I told him that electric was cheaper and that they were priced out of my market. Feels good to tell them that.
Jeff
I am in minnesota where it gets very cold. -20F to -30F at night I have a 1900 vintage two story 54' by 28' farm house. Think huge. I used propane for my heat. When the price first when sky high in 2000, It was costing me 600.00 a month for dec and jan and feb for heat. This is after the walls were insulated and the attic was insulated. At the same time I loss my income. Jan 2001. When winter hit in 2001 I could not pay 1000 dollars for a tank of propane. I found an old water heater at the recycle center and talked them into letting me have it. Cleaned it out and replaced the heating element, then plumbed it into my water hot heat system. So I know what they can do. Will one heat my whole house all winter. Yes it did. Will it keep it at 72 degrees when it is -20 outside No. Did I live yes and the house sometimes would get down to 60F. But if the temp outside was 20F or warmer it would keep the house warm and cycle on and off just like the propane broiler.
About cost. They can be very expensive if your electric rate is high. In my case the electric co has a duel fuel rate. This rate equals 1.49 a gallon propane. so they can also be cheaper to run than propane. Ps when my propane supplier called this year with his so called super rate of 1.99 per gallon, I told him that electric was cheaper and that they were priced out of my market. Feels good to tell them that.
Jeff
In my garage I use 2 propane infra red heaters and it keeps warm here in kansas. Just fire it up 30 min before and I stay warm all the while...use about 250 gal last winter and Iwas out there below freezing for 15 days per month all winter(3.5 months)...seems to work fairly well. but propane is not getting cheaper.
69pace
New member
I knew a guy who bought a commercial grade heat exchanger from a plumbing supply house at a dent and scratch sale for dirt cheap. He mounted it in his garage rafters with one down vent installed in the center of the garage and used a domestic 40 gallon hot water heater with a loop and a pump to supply the "boiler" water to the exchanger. All he had to do was set the heater to a hotter then normal temp. Works like a charm. Even heat in the large four car garage. I guess a lot depends on the temp of the water and the speed of the pump. I know it is a standard boiler (green 110 volt) pump from Home Depot.
So as for the ford rad and a box fan yeah it would work, might be a bit inefficient LOL I was looking at in floor heating and some places are using high efficient hot water heaters as well. I was looking to do photovoltaic on the roof and use electric hot water heater to fuel it. Since you can only do net meter here on cloudy days it would feed off the grid, sunny the roof would off set the cost.
So as for the ford rad and a box fan yeah it would work, might be a bit inefficient LOL I was looking at in floor heating and some places are using high efficient hot water heaters as well. I was looking to do photovoltaic on the roof and use electric hot water heater to fuel it. Since you can only do net meter here on cloudy days it would feed off the grid, sunny the roof would off set the cost.
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