Cheap tools

[beatcad]

Because so many on this forum hate mechanics

maybe in the free parking section.
and over there no one "hates" mechanics. they do ***** a lot, but theyre just jealous they cant do it themselves or griping about whatever is the going labor rate.

in the tool section(here) we love mechanics. some of us are/were mec-a-nics

 

[byoungblood]

If I buy all snap on brand new half off with student discount, 12 grand in retail price worth, then if I need to sell something down the road I can at least make my money back and come out even, no losses... And that's also incentive for me to hold onto it because I got such deals... And it's also incentive for me to appreciate snapon tools even that much more after graduation when they are sold for top dollar on a day to day basis.... Right???! Win win situation?


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Why not buy a brand of equal quality that will still be 20% less than what the truck brand is with the student discount? I don't get the mentality of buying ANYTHING, outside of real estate, thinking about its resale value. If you are buying tools for your trade, my only concern would be as to their durability, and will they do the job I need them to do.

I think threads like this keep coming up because there are folks who are concerned about kids just coming out of school, or coming up in their trade, being constantly told that they MUST spend their money on truck brand tools or they aren't going to amount to ****. I worked in a shop one summer between high school and college and that was all I heard...you need to buy SO this, MAC that...so on and so on.

I think if you can find something that is a good value, holds up well, and doesn't put you in the hole so bad that you are forced to sell everything if you decide not to stay in the trade is probably the better way to go. That's why I always keep pumping the industrial and other quality non-truck brands like S-K, Williams, etc..

 

[GTA Matt]

maybe in the free parking section.
and over there no one "hates" mechanics. they do ***** a lot, but theyre just jealous they cant do it themselves or griping about whatever is the going labor rate.

in the tool section(here) we love mechanics. some of us are/were mec-a-nics

Haha, don't take that comment too seriously, that was meant as a joke about a thread a week or so ago. I know there are many appreciative members here. Funny, none of the members that usually show disdain for mechanics showed face in that thread

 

[Hantke]

when you say college students is that tech school only? or does any college student have access to these prices?

An honest student has to apply and "prove" that is their field of study. Now, I messed up and signed up 4 years ago and dropped the classes, and I was never asked to prove where i was schooling (I also never bought a single tool, but i had an approved college account, I still get emails now about it), now if i actually bought something i may or may not be asked to prove myself. So, i guess that is up to your discretion.
Another issue you may (or may not) run into is that your local Snap-On dealer will have a pry bar so far up his **** the second he learns you have a student discount, you HAVE to purchase everything online (unless you meet a dealer on a college campus, and buy it on said campus). When i was in the shop in montana, i was told i had to find the other Snap-On dear (not the one at our shop) else it would takes months to get a replacement, the Matco dealer gives you the replacement off his truck (anything i bought from him, he garunteed for X amount of time.) and deals with it on his own time, needless to say, i became a matco fanboy in about 2 seconds flat. (and the free jacket and hat that i could use in the shop and not worry about getting messed up was an awesome bonus before i even bought from him).

On the topic of cheap tools, I've recently began enjoying 1/4" Evercraft sockets i got a NAPA with a college discount, a tad cheaper than HF for the set and looks pretty slick to. striped down the bike and re-assembled and all seems to be in working order, scored a 1/4 inch steel ratchet at walmart and it feels remarkably similar to my old Snap-On from the shop. I think i'll be keeping it for some time.

 

[nicksnothereman]

I have been accused of liking cheap stuff which is taken out of context. Buying a fistful of tools would have been cheaper than boo0ze and broads and playing poker by far.
The ability to own something outright has some advantages. I bought some nice hi dollar pieces when I was younger but really made more money with a buzzer and a 180 mig than anything else. I need it all for my own support and some of it was because it was the standard of the industry, the Hilit etc.

Some of it comes so close today for a fraction and they didn't have these box stores and internet, all the **** was dealer salesman sold and today can buy a tool 30 yrs later that works almost as good for a fraction of the price and as good for 3/4 of the price in a competing brand. in the same dollars, I recall the Hilti was near 400 at the time.

I do have some better perspective today. back look different. All the second class tools were just starting and there would have been some that thought a set of cheap impacts would never be service worthy and at the time cheap common sockets really were junk, an opinion surely escalated and endorsed by the 5$ socket set.

What I am impressed with today is that with a little shopping the real cost of decent tools has tanked, can buy the same welder I paid 650 for and had to get at a dealer in 90 can be had off the shelf at Lowes for 700. 25 yrs later. Sears hand hard line tools in sets dropped so pitifully low in a futile race to the bottom that anyone that has to ask about a wrench but needs a tool should rush over and buy a set, could throw half in the3 dumpster right off the bat and still get a bargain.
It would be different if it was 25 a piece,,, then worth some concern about how it fits my "golden arm" but for 75 cents including sales tax wtf.
It would be different if we put a premium price on it, polish it a bit more etc but that 1/2 set of Walmart sockets at under 25 bucks is not robbing anyone but the suckers that worked like a dog to make it, haul it and vend it with warranty,,, abused by junkyards everywhere way beyond most of the tool polishers found here.

The only truly crappy tool I've ever bought was a pair of wire cutters (with 3 rolls of wire) I bought at the dollar store. Oddly...made in germany not china. Snapped in about a week. Not everything from a preferred country is made better than non-preferred countries. Just saying.

The quality on low end tools is much better than it used to be (unless we're talking craftsman usa as being low end). No reason not to buy it if it's what you can afford and will help you get the job done. Nowadays there is no happy medium that craftsman usa used to represent so I tend to look for usa or taiwan on the package then look at the fit & finish before buying it. I don't pay a "premium" price for chinese tools (vs. what I think it should cost) especially if the warranty is iffy.

 

[sberry]

The economy has made it affordable to the point that cost is no real reason not to buy something you need. There is another saying, a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush, might be worth 10 or more. The high cost used to be such a liability,,, now that some of it so low its almost an asset. Some of it not worth insuring, can be easily replaced.

 

[Fretters]

I think I'd rather have two in the bush.

 

[Pumpman1968]

Wtf are you talking about half the time? We get it you like cheap tools and not spending money and piecing sets together. But building things on a farm and being pinned down to flat rate time and getting a job done are totally different man.

No offense, Joe....but most farmers would find it a relief to have the pleasure of doing what you do with a box full of tools 10 feet away. I grew up on a farm and I've seen things fixed with a screwdriver, pliers, an adjustable and a bootlace........in the middle of a field in 100 degree heat! Equipment doesn't break down under a tree. You make what you have work.....and work well....when the tools are a mile away and you're walking! Of course, right about then, the inevitable summer thunderstorm is just about to burst........now THAT'S pressed for time!

And, if you think working on that rusty 10 year old Hyundai *****....try a piece of equipment that is 50 years old, has 30 double sided knives or 100 tines that are worn sharp. Bailer twine tied in 6 knots and the 2 ends NEVER crossed. Ever lie down in a hayfield that was cut 2 weeks ago? It's like laying on a bed of nails.

 

[joedodge]

I agree it is nice. Nope never had to do any of that but I've done worse on the side of the interstate on rd calls when towing isn't an option. I'm not getting into a ******* contest because no one wins. I love this forum and a lot of the contributors on it. Like I said tho DIY back yard, isn't a pro tech.......that's forgotten a lot here

 

[Grimly]

I feel the same way. Sometimes the views on here are so rediculous and not real world at all. Hell I can't believe the people who spend so much money on top dollar tools to polish and baby and never even use them

Because there's one thing here we all share; something that binds us all - the sheer delight of owning and using (whether pro or part-time or diy) a top-line, mucho-expensive tool that's designed to work right and work well for years. No matter that it costs an arm and leg, it's a tool and needs no justification

 

[joedodge]

Hahaha well put. There's room for us all. Y'all are lucky tho my wife would hang me if I spent that on tools and didn't make money with them lol. Hell I haven't got to buy anything off the snap on truck in ages. That's said I spend a lot on tool topia or with my local tool whole saler (tool topia but in store form) we get a discount or with my independent driver

 

[sberry]

I have used Tooltopia. I agree about a lot of farmers having pitiful equipment, many of my competitors are limpers in that regard.
I am all for buying what you want but just like to stick my 2 cents when the opinion comes up that Sears or HF is robbing people or Walmart for that matter on a pretty decent 20$ wrench set but the guy that hauls one to the shop at 500 or so and is marked up multiples along ther way is their pal and friend doing them a big favor.
I heard a comment last week sounded almost religious and wo0ndered if a tear came with it,,, "if I work with him, buy all this stuff he will like me and good things will start to happen for me"
You guys accuse me of being deluded,,,, hahahahahahaha

 

[joedodge]

Hahahaha that's why opinions are great! Get to see other views and such. I love the tool salesman speech always makes me laugh

 

[Fretters]

I am all for buying what you want but just like to stick my 2 cents when the opinion comes up that Sears or HF is robbing people or Walmart for that matter on a pretty decent 20$ wrench set but the guy that hauls one to the shop at 500 or so and is marked up multiples along ther way is their pal and friend doing them a big favor.
I heard a comment last week sounded almost religious and wo0ndered if a tear came with it,,, "if I work with him, buy all this stuff he will like me and good things will start to happen for me"
You guys accuse me of being deluded,,,, hahahahahahaha

I'd actually agree with you on quite a few counts. Quality is quality, IMHO, whatever the source, and sometimes a life long item isn't needed or necessary, so savings can be made. Buying second hand is also another good way of saving money.

As they say, "It's a poor workman who blames his tools". I think the problem you have, however, (if I might offer a bit of personal opinion?), is how you put across your opinion and the fact that you're just as zealot like as some of the others in your own way. Proffer an opionion when it's asked for, (I'm not suggesting this is just limited to you, btw), but don't try and ram it down peoples throats.

Everyone is different, and some will never see the woods for the trees, (what constitutes the woods depends on ones own personal viewpoint), but I'm quite thankful everyone is different. There'd be less of the stuff I like for me if we all liked the same.

 

[NWphotog]

It's basically gearwrench, a "premium asian" brand now...?

Definitely leaps above most HF garbage.

Oh hogwash.

 

[NWphotog]

Because there's one thing here we all share; something that binds us all - the sheer delight of owning and using (whether pro or part-time or diy) a top-line, mucho-expensive tool that's designed to work right and work well for years. No matter that it costs an arm and leg, it's a tool and needs no justification

Some of us were raised that a tool is just a tool. It exists only to get a job done and not to be held in a vault like a gold coin.

 

[redwrench60]

Some of us were raised that a tool is just a tool. It exists only to get a job done and not to be held in a vault like a gold coin.

But you must at least love tools to some degree because, (I'll say this in a whisper so nobody hears) you're on a tool and garage forum!

 

[GortonsFisherman]

Some of us were raised that a tool is just a tool. It exists only to get a job done and not to be held in a vault like a gold coin.

Heresy!

Lmao

I think the problem you have, however, (if I might offer a bit of personal opinion?), is how you put across your opinion and the fact that you're just as zealot like as some of the others in your own way. Proffer an opionion when it's asked for, (I'm not suggesting this is just limited to you, btw), but don't try and ram it down peoples throats.

That's classic!

 

[Grimly]

Some of us were raised that a tool is just a tool. It exists only to get a job done and not to be held in a vault like a gold coin.

Very true; there is no other good reason for its existence than to do a particular job, whether it's a S-O or a Leica. I've never bought an expensive tool that wasn't put to work earning its keep straight away, because the need for the tool was what drove me to buy it.

 

[chris142]

Are we talking cheap in price but good quality or cheaply made?

 

[joedodge]

I believe sberry is talking any thing you can get your hands on lol.

 

[n8n]

Some of us were raised that a tool is just a tool. It exists only to get a job done and not to be held in a vault like a gold coin.

I think how we were raised probably has a lot to do with where we fall in the "good tools" conversation. My family is pretty much all of German ancestry, less than affluent, and from Pennsylvania. In other words, CHEAP. Tools are expected to last a lifetime and then some. So purchases are scrutinized, researched, etc. because while it hurts to buy a tool, it hurts more to buy it twice. Makes you feel like the money you spend on the first tool was completely wasted.

And yes, I can understand that it may actually make sense for a young pro to buy a full kit of cheap stuff and then replace crucial bits with higher quality later (and not replace some things at all if they are seldom used.) I just have a hard time doing it myself...

 

[joedodge]

I was raised in the trades. We have electricians, plumbers, a lot of mechanics you name it. I grew purchases should be researched but ou should by the best you can afford. Nt snap on the best ou an afford and provide for your family. DIY shade tree huygould do what he wants. It's his decision. He doesn't need the best as he's not a pro

 

[sberry]

I am not telling anyone what to buy,,, just wondering how we arrive at the perceived value. I think a lot of it is hold over from times gone by and a lot of it very good marketing which I think is a good plan for those in that business.
I am wondering though how a tool can tell if its being used by a pro?

I also think in the past the investment levels were different, now a guy can have a dozen different sets of specialty bits and dozens of pliers. Lots of versions of wrenches. When the bulk of the real work was valve job and tune up on standard sae not so much was needed.

 

[joedodge]

Haha the tool can't only someone who turns wrenches daily day in and out fixing broken machines and cars and equipment as there sole income is a pro tech. His living a family is paid for by his time turning those wrenches. I have a small garden........ I don't dare say I'm a farmer though

 

[redwrench60]

I am wondering though how a tool can tell if its being used by a pro?.

It can't. But I sure can tell when I'm holding a piece of drop forged horse manure.

 

[signcrafter]

I am not telling anyone what to buy,,, just wondering how we arrive at the perceived value. I think a lot of it is hold over from times gone by and a lot of it very good marketing which I think is a good plan for those in that business.
I am wondering though how a tool can tell if its being used by a pro?

I also think in the past the investment levels were different, now a guy can have a dozen different sets of specialty bits and dozens of pliers. Lots of versions of wrenches. When the bulk of the real work was valve job and tune up on standard sae not so much was needed.

Perceived value is a different formula for everybody. Like I mentioned way back in the beginning everybody has to come up with their own formula based on things like price, quality, warranty, easy to use, etc. The tool that works for me won't necessarily work for you or any other member.

I'm not a "pro" but I can see where a pro would pay more for a top of the line quality tool to minimize the chance of the tool failing. Although I have snap on torx bits for myself, even though I'm just backyard. I got sick of buying torx bits and having them round off on seat belt bolts and truck bed bolts. So after reading about the best I decided the snap on ones fit my need. But I have a ton of cheaper tools that get the job done. A pro that gets paid for completing a job can't have torx bits snapping and not being able to finish and get paid. This is where sometimes it's better to spend a little more up front then to buy the same tool multiple times when it keeps breaking.

You can't tell me what formula works for me and I can't tell you what formula works for you. But that is why this forum is so great. I title a lot of my threads "What xxxx tool do YOU use" and see what pops up. Then I read the replies and decide for myself which one fits my needs.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

I am not telling anyone what to buy.

Oh, really? You sure got a funny way of going about it.

 

[redwrench60]

Having crappy **** **** tools is like having a mean ol' ***** for a wife. Sure she might get the job done but I'd hate to have to live with her day in and day out.

 

[sberry]

Are we talking cheap in price but good quality or cheaply made?

We are talking price. Our Kmart has a Sears with a few tools to occupy men while women shop. Its a small store and not very competitive and Sears is doing what it should by keeping small set prices high. Its a couple bucks more but Sears has sales often enough and aint really holding anyone up that bad on most individual items if you need something. I been following the tools with a glance like I do other stores and other products, oil, tires etc and tools are highly opinionated and enough brands to be heavily competitive as well as long term trade standards.
If you couldn't read the fine print you wouldn't know it wasn't the same tool they been making since the early 80's when they got the bright idea to compete straight up with the new box store and now went head to head with Harbor freight.
I paid 3500 or so for the master set in early 80, from the way it looks could get it today (or a year ago still all USA) for less in todays dollars. I dont think the tool box has went up 50$ in 35 years.

As a side note I ran on to a yard sale just after and did score a few items from a broke **** selling his truck collection for 20 cents on the dollars and couldn't get that for it. Had I not just purchased all of it I would have taken some of it.

 

[signcrafter]

SBerry let me ask you this. Is a strawberry a strawberry? Why should I buy from your farm when I can go to the local grocery store and get a package of strawberries? Is there different quality of strawberries? Is there any reason to buy fresh strawberries from a farm like yours when any strawberry from the store will taste like a strawberry?

 

[CJM8515]

Like I said earlier: The REALLY cheap tools like the 10 dollar HF socket sets are imho junk and only good to toss in the back of your car, you can tell the quality isnt there. Will they work-probably just fine, will you break them-possible. Im a tool snob per se b/c I rather at least have a quality tool over absolute junk. But there is now way Im gonna get the tool off the tool truck for 100 bucks if the same one off the shelf of home depot works just fine. Ill admit that in some cases the tool truck stuff is worth it, but most cases its not. I mean when I was a kid I got a crescent branded socket set from sams club-I rebuilt countless things with that set no issues-BUT I didnt use it professionally every day either.

Thing about the tool truck that no one here has really brought up: Something breaks the tool truck guy is gonna give you a new one or a loaner at least. Local sears will replace as will HF-but you gotta go there. Same for stanley, gearwrench or similar-phone call or go to a supplier and you get a new one no issue. But if its your job day in and out its possible you will be screwed if you need to run to sears to get another tool cause it broke.

I think some of you are VERY biased. If the tool works and is of decent quality then why do you need the $$$ version of the same thing? Bragging rights? Your own personal enjoyment (that I understand)? But why spend 100 bucks on a SO ratchet when a husky one from home cheapo does the job?

 

[Moose-LandTran]

I think some of you are VERY biased.

Everyone has an opinion. Of course that's biased.

This isn't a thread about being frugal and getting the best value for money, it's a ******* contest between those who buy cheaper tools that work for them and those who buy the best quality at the (inevitable) higher price. (Deja Moo - the feeling you get when you've see that ******** before.)

I still don't know why everyone wants to dictate what others should buy.

I'm sure a set of Craftsman wrenches with turn the nuts and bolts i work on, but i don't want Craftsman tools. In the same way i want my 10-year-old diesel VW Wagon instead of a nice new Audi or an old cheap Toyota. All 3 will get me to work, but i go in the one i want to go in.

 

[redwrench60]

It's very hard to separate a cheaply made tool from one with a cheap price tag. A great deal of the time they are one in the same.

Take those HF impact sockets that people seem to rave about. Years ago I got suckered into buying a metric set and within 4 months the 15, 18, 19, 21 and 24 mm sizes were all cracked or shattered. It was a $9.99 1/2" drive socket set and literally wasn't worth driving the 35 miles to the store to get them warrantied. I threw them in the trash where they belong.

 

[Hantke]

(Deja Moo - the feeling you get when you've see that ******** before.)

This is my new favorite quote.

 

[joedodge]

Not biased at all. Will a husky do the job yes. Will it last for me at work not at all. Biggest thing I can say is be informed and do your research and buy the best you can afford if our a pro. Homeowner DIY buy what makes you happy. You'll never break cheap tools prolly and never use pro tools to there potential so buy what makes you feel good and you enjoy

 

[redwrench60]

SBerry let me ask you this. Is a strawberry a strawberry? Why should I buy from your farm when I can go to the local grocery store and get a package of strawberries? Is there different quality of strawberries? Is there any reason to buy fresh strawberries from a farm like yours when any strawberry from the store will taste like a strawberry?

This is an excellent point. We all know the answer too.

 

[sberry]

The old stuff I has was from must have been made from SK ??? But the 80's tools were really junk in comparison. I had problems with sockets out of the box and they cheap the ratchet which by modern mass standards must have been the worlds most faulty hard line hand tool. That set may have come good ratchet, I cant remember.
What I do know was that I was pitiful insufficient at the time, I should have bought a couple more air tools than I did but I came up to speed just when the thing was changing to metric.
I believe at the time it had every hand tool in the largest sizes they made. Torx was on the curve ahead, it didn't have metric socket hex and no metric 3/4 drive. It did tap and die to 3/4 and 19mm.

 

[sberry]

It's very hard to separate a cheaply made tool from one with a cheap price tag. A great deal of the time they are one in the same.

Take those HF impact sockets that people seem to rave about. Years ago I got suckered into buying a metric set and within 4 months the 15, 18, 19, 21 and 24 mm sizes were all cracked or shattered. It was a $9.99 1/2" drive socket set and literally wasn't worth driving the 35 miles to the store to get them warrantied. I threw them in the trash where they belong.

I bought that too, its the poorest thing I got from them, they were sets stripped for warranties because they were junk. That really scared me too for a while. They dumped it now.
I just bought a set of impact swivels in metric, 28$ I think and used it a couple times, didn't intend to pound the snot out of them but for some one off problem solvers.

 

[sberry]

Ah berries,,, as competitors I have 2 majors and a couple foot draggers I wish I could eliminate. They all have super product, I work on cooling and chilling a bit and some mass advertising. I try to project the same idea Snapon does.