Cheaper than HobbyAir?

[carcentric]

It's hard for me to justify $135 per paint job ($400+ expense divided by 3 paintjobs planned), so is there a cheaper way to get "fresh air" while painting?

Here's a link to the HobbyAir product:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/hobbyair.php

Could the output of a standard portable air compressor (already owned, separate from the one used to paint, sitting outside away from paint fumes) be cleaned up enough for breathing? Would just a 5 micron filter do it?

I think I can connect one of my half-mask canister respirators to a hose . . .

 

[Uncle Buck]

I do not go as exotic as supplied air, and there is really no need to do so, unless you do alot of painting, and even then, only due to convenience. Just get a half mask respirator that covers the mouth and nose and mate it with the proper cartridges.It is also necessary to have the respirator properly fitted to your face. Unless you just want to spend the extra money? My setup will protect my lungs every bit as good as the supplied air system at a fraction of the cost. I will only paint a few times a year, so it's a no brainer which option is more suitable for me. But if you just want a fancier rig, that one looks like a dandy to me.

 

[AndrewM]

I'm currently in the process of building my own. I did some web searching about how these units are constructed.

There's 2 different methods for the less expensive units - one using a vacuum cleaner motor (the HobbyAir), and the other using an air mattress inflator (the ebay units). I'm currently chasing the air mattress inflator route.

Here is the pump that the ebay unit uses according to my web searching.

I went to Wally World and bought 2, since the ebay unit states it uses 2 pumps. One is for air, the other is for cooling. The pump states that it should not be used for more than 20 minutes at a time (in the instructions). So therefore I assume that cooling air must be provided to run for longer. A hose coming off the second pump, deadheading to a T - and that blowing between both pumps - would provide this cooling action.

I bought the Supplied Air Hood from SAS Safety (purchased from spraygunworld.com). I removed the brass air fitting from the hose on the hood, and coupled the hose from the pump to the house on the hood... it was certainly enough airflow to fully inflate the hood around my head. I did, however, get a nasty air howl on a couple of occasions when testing it out. The SAS tube has a foam strip inside it, I assume in an attempt to interrupt the airflow to prevent this howling.

I have not purchased extra tubing yet to make the system fully functional (need somewhere between 25 and 50 feet). I need to locate some inexpensive 3/4" ribbed sump tubing of some sort. I've not shopped very hard for it though. I figure it should cost somewhere under $20.

So I'll have a little over $100 in the whole setup by the time it's said and done. I just couldn't bring myself to plunk down $400+ for something I knew I could build myself.

 

[AdamMopar]

The one word that shouldn't come to mind for protection during painting is "cheap".

I have used the Axis systems since I started painting. I started with an HA1, moved up to currently an HA 2. I couldn't be happier with it, I initially had some issues with the HA 2 that I did not have with the HA 1 but they were taken care of promptly.

It's unfortunate to see on TV and in professional shops people using half mask or even full mask respirators for painting. One thing a lot of beginning hobbyists don't understand is that the amount of air moving out of a commercial booth is higher than will ever be attainable in any kind of home garage or makeshift booth.

I quite interesting that some people will spend up to $400 dollars if not more on spray guns for painting their projects but when it comes down to it they won't spend $400 to protect themselves. In my opinion get the supplied air system and get a more inexpensive gun. You can always upgrade to a nicer gun later on if you feel it is necessary.

Today's paints that use hardeners contain isocyanates, they are typically given the most attention though the solvents and other components are just as dangerous and I feel they should be sprayed with a supplied air system as well. These isocyanates are not detectable until after you have been exposed and symptoms occur. Will you get exposed only doing a a few projects? Most likely with improper safety equipment, and even with the correct equipment it is still possible to be exposed. The amount of exposure and when systems will begin to occur is anyone’s guess and appears to vary from person to person.

So why not the half mask, or even full mask respirators? The biggest thing that most people will say is that they operate on negative pressure which is entirely correct. Isocyanates however are absorbed through the skin and the eyes as well.

That is one reason I believe the supplied air hood is the only way to go, along with a proper paint suit and gloves so every avenue of safety is covered.

Even if you are going to only paint one car, buy a Hobby Air or similar system, you can always sell on E-Bay for slightly less than you paid for it. When I was ready to upgrade to my HA 2, I sold my HA 1 for more than I had even paid for it at the time I bought it.

These are just my opinions.

Good luck, Adam

 

[KeukaDan]

The statement about isocyanates is correct and you will have to look for a filter that can handle it but don't discount filtered masks. As long as you choose the right filter and the right respirator for the job you will be all set. If you feel the need for full face protection then get a full face respirator. As a Hazardous Materials technician, we use supplied air for many things but it is not cost effective for most jobs. The filtering respirators will give as clean if not cleaner air than a supplied system(depending on where the supplied air is coming from) but you need to follow the manufacturers specifications on protective equipment. Go to the paint manufacturer and ask them for the requirements on respiratory protection. They are legally required to give these to you. It will tell you what the accepted PEL is and what type of filters are needed, they will also tell you how frequently you need to change the filters.

With supplied air make sure that the compressor is in an area where it is getting clean air and make sure that your hose isn't to long or you will get hot air being supplied to you over a long run. Most large facilities that use supplied air end up running the hose through dry ice to cool the air so it is comfortable to breath.

As to the question about using an air compressor that you own I would advise strongly against that. A half or full face respirator would be much better than that.

 

[AdamMopar]

The statement about isocyanates is correct and you will have to look for a filter that can handle it but don't discount filtered masks. As long as you choose the right filter and the right respirator for the job you will be all set. If you feel the need for full face protection then get a full face respirator. As a Hazardous Materials technician, we use supplied air for many things but it is not cost effective for most jobs. The filtering respirators will give as clean if not cleaner air than a supplied system(depending on where the supplied air is coming from) but you need to follow the manufacturers specifications on protective equipment. Go to the paint manufacturer and ask them for the requirements on respiratory protection. They are legally required to give these to you. It will tell you what the accepted PEL is and what type of filters are needed, they will also tell you how frequently you need to change the filters.

With supplied air make sure that the compressor is in an area where it is getting clean air and make sure that your hose isn't to long or you will get hot air being supplied to you over a long run. Most large facilities that use supplied air end up running the hose through dry ice to cool the air so it is comfortable to breath.

As to the question about using an air compressor that you own I would advise strongly against that. A half or full face respirator would be much better than that.

I'm not trying to discount the respirators either, I still use them for applying, body filler, sanding filler, etc. However to the best of my knowledge no respirator manufactuer will recomend a filter for spraying products that contain isocyanates. I know 3M does not for a negative pressure respirator, unless something has changed recently.

Adam

 

[KeukaDan]

I'm not trying to discount the respirators either, I still use them for applying, body filler, sanding filler, etc. However to the best of my knowledge no respirator manufactuer will recomend a filter for spraying products that contain isocyanates. I know 3M does not for a negative pressure respirator, unless something has changed recently.

Adam

You are correct, the filtering respirators will filter out isocyanates if you use the correct type but the problem with isocyanates is they are a sensitizer and once you smell them you are exposed. So if you dont change your filters like you should and you all of a sudden smell the isocyanates, then you have been exposed and there is no going back.

What it comes down to is you can be safe with a respirator but if I had the choice and the money, I would say go with an air supplied system, it will give you the highest level of protection.

Here is some information on isocyanates if anyone is curious http://www.ppg.com/refinishftpsite/docs/EHSIsocyanate.pdf

http://www.irsst.qc.ca/en/_outil_100017.html

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/isocyanates/mdi/mdi.html

 

[AndrewM]

I agree 100% with what AdamMopar said about isocyanates. That's why I took the full hood approach as well. 100% skin coverage (with the bunny suit and nitrile gloves). The hood tucks inside the suit.

And for using an air comrpressor, I've read that it's not a good idea. You want volume, but not pressure - especially with a face mask. Pressure on a tight fitting face mask can actually damage your lungs as well.

 

[roger55]

There are dangers involved with a homemade system.
This has been discussed at length on the hotrodders forum.

Check these links out:

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/homemade-fresh-air-respirator-35434.html
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/compressed-air-question-74631.html
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/more-homemade-respirator-35667.html

 

[Nighttrain]

Dragging out this old thread. Has anyone recently purchased or used a Hobbyair system? I've done some painting recently (see my build thread) and used a half mask filter plus full Tyvek suit, gloves, goggles etc. Still had a little smell from the primer on the first go around. My mask tested fine but I guess with some movement it pulled a little and I had a little paint on my nose. I am using a 2K paint in a homemade paint booth which actually is pulling a lot of air out the back.

I am leaning to the hood and not the half or full face mask. $409.98 on TCP Global seems like it is well worth my lungs