Cheating on Copper with PEX! ??

[Todd.Brock]

All-

I’m planning the basement buildout. I need to relocate a number of copper pipes and I am thinking about stepping out on Copper for PEX, lol...
I have no trouble sweating joints, other than the occasional water in the pipe that keeps the joint cold.
I was working at a buddies house who was done with PEX, and the speed and easy amazes me...

Is mixing copper and PEX a hack move? If you walked into a basement with PEX and copper, would you think hack DIY?

Would a person in the plumbing trade come in with PEX to finish a bathroom, etc??

Just curious what you all think.


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[charbar]

I'm no professional in that department by any means, but how many plumbers out there even use copper any more? I'm betting a good majority would do exactly like you are talking.

I did in my basement. Had plenty of copper that was needing redone, but a small portion to an addition on the house was fairly new and in great shape. Why fix what isn't broken? I ran all pex right up to the newer copper lines, soldered on a pex-to-copper adapter, and called it a day.

Take that for what its worth I guess, Im a mechanic, not a plumber

 

[LS6 Tommy]

My Master Suite plumbing was done by what I consider to be a very good plumber. All the heating rework and new fixtures were done with pex, tied into the existing copper.

I'm fine with it.

Tommy

 

[Kaizen]

Pro’s work for money. Pex is the best way to shave off labor hours.
Every time I redo something now I use pex for water supply. Many places I have in the wall runs that have pex in the cellar then change over to old copper in wall.
No idea why people still think it’s not as good. Not like it’s a new technology


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[soloz2]

I used PEX for my garage bathroom as the PO didn't properly winterize and there were multiple leaks in the copper pipe. It was so much easier than soldering copper and even spending the $$ on PEX crimp tool was cheaper

 

[Glemon]

I redid our master bath using pex for the first time. Amazing stuff, spent many evening running and figuring out PVC drain and vent, the pex supply lines were all done in a quick night. Three years in, no problems.

 

[CoogarXR]

The last house I remodeled, scrapping the copper paid for all new pex supply plumbing and PVC drains. Of course, that house had copper drain pipes originally too ($$!).

 

[BD1]

Since it will be buried and not inspected it is fine.
If it's gonna be exposed, I would check with local inspector. It could be fine until you go to sell and a home inspector says it's illegal .
Copper using propress is my favorite.


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[ambenz]

I wonder if pex would stand a freeze that a copper pipe wouldn't...maybe an added benefit to fix outside exposed line we have heard about in Texas???
Searching I found.... "Andy Ward, owner of Republic Plumbing in Madison, Tennessee, says both types of piping are susceptible to freezing, but copper pipes pose the bigger risk when temperatures dip below freezing. “PEX will still freeze, but they won't burst,” he says.

 

[danfromsyr]

Pex is most certainly superior against breaking from freezing than copper.

a good Matt video for a study on freezing pipes
he tests a dozen types of pipe and fitting in the freezer..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOeB...l=MattRisinger
fwiw I've had a sharkbite cap pop off from a freezing copper pipe in my laundry room one year. so they're not an end all either.

I wonder if pex would stand a freeze that a copper pipe wouldn't...maybe an added benefit to fix outside exposed line we have heard about in Texas???
Searching I found.... "Andy Ward, owner of Republic Plumbing in Madison, Tennessee, says both types of piping are susceptible to freezing, but copper pipes pose the bigger risk when temperatures dip below freezing. “PEX will still freeze, but they won't burst,” he says.

 

[Kaizen]

I wonder if pex would stand a freeze that a copper pipe wouldn't...maybe an added benefit to fix outside exposed line we have heard about in Texas???
Searching I found.... "Andy Ward, owner of Republic Plumbing in Madison, Tennessee, says both types of piping are susceptible to freezing, but copper pipes pose the bigger risk when temperatures dip below freezing. “PEX will still freeze, but they won't burst,” he says.

I have a laundry line made out of pex that freezes under 20 degrees. So several times a winter. Thaws out and never a leak or split. I also don’t use pvc pex fittings.


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[txvwnut]

My nephew is a plumber and he uses PEX for everything. He was on the side of no way in hell till he got to see a good demo of it frozen and the strength test of the stretch fit fittings. My house is now plumbed in PEX.

 

[mmb617]

When I replaced all the corroded galvanized water lines in my house 40 years ago I did it all in copper. Now any new plumbing I add, or any old repairs it's pex all the way. I'll probably never solder another joint.

 

[yeldogt]

Pex is taking over -- the labor difference is just too great.

Huge number of service lines are plastic (Black) and Pex seems to show little effect on drinking water .. so it's going to be the norm in most places I'm sure.

I was going to do a home run PEX setup in my house. Ran into space issues with the mechanical room -- went conventional copper.

I like the idea of home run with no splices/ fitting until the endpoint -- All the PEX problems seem to come from the fittings.

 

[Showkey]

When I replaced all the corroded galvanized water lines in my house 40 years ago I did it all in copper. Now any new plumbing I add, or any old repairs it's pex all the way. I'll probably never solder another joint.

Similar in FLorida and Texas where copper leaks in the slab or below the slab.......there’s a whole industry built around replumbing the home with PEX in one day with minimal dry wall disruptions.

 

[Robbie B]

I’m the oddball, my whole house is CPVC water lines and PVC drains.

 

[Todd.Brock]

Good call on the inspection. I will call the AHJ and ask about the house 3 streets over, lol

I like the look of all the Viega propress , but for and average user, I’m not sure it makes sense $ wise. Why are cordless crimpers $2000??


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[Kaizen]

Good call on the inspection. I will call the AHJ and ask about the house 3 streets over, lol

I like the look of all the Viega propress , but for and average user, I’m not sure it makes sense $ wise. Why are cordless crimpers $2000??


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1/2 in. and 3/4 in. Dual PEX Copper Crimp Ring Tool

https://www.homedepot.com/p/202270489


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[b-boy]

I hired a plumber do run water and drains for my kitchen remodel. He used PEX and some pro-press.

He told me that if I wanted sweated copper, it would increase the price quite a bit.

When I plumbed my pole barn, I did all Pex. Super easy to work with.

 

[59 wagon man]

I'm no professional in that department by any means, but how many plumbers out there even use copper any more? I'm betting a good majority would do exactly like you are talking.

I did in my basement. Had plenty of copper that was needing redone, but a small portion to an addition on the house was fairly new and in great shape. Why fix what isn't broken? I ran all pex right up to the newer copper lines, soldered on a pex-to-copper adapter, and called it a day.

Take that for what its worth I guess, Im a mechanic, not a plumber

copper has a 50 yr warranty and many plumbers use it every day. i'm on my way to the supply house now to get some. i hate pvc and cpvc as i have had issues with pressure and temp blowing joints apart and pex is not something i use

 

[johninct]

Good call on the inspection. I will call the AHJ and ask about the house 3 streets over, lol

I like the look of all the Viega propress , but for and average user, I’m not sure it makes sense $ wise. Why are cordless crimpers $2000??


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I love Viega Pex. Either my Plumbing supply house or Viega had a special where I got the 1/2" and 3/4" tools for free after buying so much material.

 

[Cryptic1911]

My whole house is plumbed in pex, other than a few sections to the old bathroom. Right off the boiler I've got a manifold with pumps for 5 different zones for baseboard, all run in pex. All the hot and cold water for the bathrooms and kitchen areas are in pex, we made manifolds w/ 1/4 turn ball valve shutoffs out of pex for hot and cold, plus a run out to the garage for a hydronic heater hanging from the ceiling. My father and I plumbed the house and we aren't plumbers.. it's kinda like legos for adults. the fittings and crimps are basically fool proof and they are locked solid. It's great stuff.. and not that I would recommend doing it, but I've even seen it plumbed for air lines in a garage. It may eventually split, but unlike pvc, it won't shatter and spit shards at you. It'll just split and blast all the air out

 

[planecrazy]

I’m building an apartment on a slab. The water line coming out of the slab is CPVC. I started to plumb with CPVC but I hate the stuff as I’m used to copper. Anyhow, I’m looking at a pile of Uponor PEX tubing and fittings that will replace the CPVC after the main water shut off valve. My buddy is a plumbing contractor and recommended expansion style PEX vs crimp so that is what I went with. The biggest downside is I haven’t found a local supplier. The box stores only carry crimp style.

At the end of the day, it was an excuse to buy some new tools.

 

[yeldogt]

I’m the oddball, my whole house is CPVC water lines and PVC drains.

PVC for drains is the norm ... except for some areas where you have to use CI


I don't like PVC/CPVC inside or for any water lines

 

[Jackfre]

I’m an old plumber and prefer to run copper, but when I remodeled my house I did it in pex. You have to be careful with the number of fittings you use with pex as the 1/2” fittings are actually a 5/16” ID bushing and pressure drop is cumulative. The thing about pex is it is fine to use but difficult to make it look good. It is so easy to run that people loop it all over the place and it can truly end up like a plate of spaghetti. Use the 90* support brackets where possible. Have plenty of good hangers. I use the M12 Milwaukee expander with Uponor pex and love that damned thing, especially in tight spots.

 

[APEowner]

I still use copper for everything but if I'm being honest with myself it's mostly because I just like the looks of a nicely installed copper plumbing system. I don't think that there's really any other reason for using it. I need to pick a PEX connection system and make the switch.

 

[alexb2000]

I plumbed my orchard irrigation with 1" pex in N. NM at 8,000 ft. It was only buried a few inches below the surface and HARD froze every year for months. I never had a single failure of the PEX tubing. All the problems were with the plastic irrigation fittings (sprinklers, drip heads, etc.) that I bought by the case. I have no idea why PVC or poly is still so common, even though it is less expensive, it is constant maintenance.

I still use copper for manifolds and open areas like mechanical rooms where looks and neatness count, but otherwise PEX has proven itself IME.

 

[Daniel Dudley]

I like PEX. You can run a lot of home runs off of a manifold and easily and neatly run all of your PEX out from the manifold shutoffs. Many times you can do an entire run without a single joint except at the ends. It is super easy to work, and it rarely leaks.

I have run Type A and type B, and both work well. I prefer type A as I think it is a better quality material. If you like copper, you should use it, but once you use PEX a few times, it is hard to want to go back.

 

[Wayne67vert]

I just had several insurance companies deny to quote me for homeowners because I have PEX pipes. I am curious why.

 

[abailcb]

You can run a lot of home runs off of a manifold and easily and neatly run all of your PEX out from the manifold shutoffs. Many times you can do an entire run without a single joint except at the ends. It is super easy to work, and it rarely leaks.

Yep.... whole house running through a manifold with dedicated shutoffs for everything. No joints and no pressure or temp drops when someone else runs water.

 

[ddurrett896]

I just had several insurance companies deny to quote me for homeowners because I have PEX pipes. I am curious why.

PEX or quest? My plumber buddy bought a house and scrapped all of the copper and re ran everything in PEX.

 

[Firebrick43]

I just had several insurance companies deny to quote me for homeowners because I have PEX pipes. I am curious why.

Cause they were probably bit hard by Zurn Pex and their crappy fittings leaking due to Dezincification.

Unfortuately many companies, and individuals, don't realize there is a large difference in the quality of the cheap crimp products and the top tier Upnor propex and Viega pex.

Same issue with synthetic stucco. Several town such as Minneapolis had a lot of it installed for several years. Good product on many types of wall but terrible on wood framed walls. But because of the claims against it when I wanted to put it on my ICF walls the insurance company would drop me.

 

[frankd]

Pro’s work for money. Pex is the best way to shave off labor hours.
Every time I redo something now I use pex for water supply. Many places I have in the wall runs that have pex in the cellar then change over to old copper in wall.
No idea why people still think it’s not as good. Not like it’s a new technology

I agree with this. I've had quite a bit of plumbing work done on the house and the plumber always used PEX, and it some cases did connect the Pex to Copper. He said some old school plumbers refuse to stop using copper and that NY labor unions will only use it because PEX is inferior... but in his opinion he thinks theyre just doing it so that they can get more man hours out of a job.

I just had several insurance companies deny to quote me for homeowners because I have PEX pipes. I am curious why.

I work for an insurance company and deal with high hazard product insurance (power equipment, exercise equipment, kids toys, etc) ...and I'm not allowed to insure any business that makes or imports PEX lol.
Just google Pex "Yellow brass" and you'll see a bunch of information on insurance claims and lawsuits. My company has paid out over $40M on pex claims (class action, construction defect, etc). The issue is with pex fittings made in the 90's that were imported from china. The pex fitting would corrode and the fitting would leak. So the homeowner calls their insurance co, who pays the claim, and then goes after the company that manufactured (or imported it). In many cases the fitting wouldn't have any identifiable markings so the homeowners insurer isn't able to tender the claim to the mfg.
The newer pex supposedly doesn't have the same issues (I think it was the Zinc content but cant remember)

 

[Kev442]

Pex is all fine and dandy until a bored rodent comes along. I would never do a cottage/cabin/garage/pole building in it.

 

[Robbie B]

PVC for drains is the norm ... except for some areas where you have to use CI


I don't like PVC/CPVC inside or for any water lines

Mine’s a real simple layout fortunately. We live in a mobile home I renovated so I was able to plumb it like I wanted. There is very little that is in the walls, all but one run to the kitchen sink is basically straight up through the floor. Although I will say even with it being simple I’d have still don’t parts of it differently.

 

[loganb]

Most in this area I see are using Pex in new construction once it comes off the main water line, just be aware there are different types of PEX. Type A is the more "stretchy" stuff that use an expander tool on and is what I'll use if I ever have to replumb my current house

 

[ixlr8]

Keep in mind there is PEX-A and PEX-B. If I remember correctly PEX-A is more flexible than PEX-B. I believe the Viega PEX is the -B PEX and Uponor PEX is the -A PEX.

 

[topcok88]

Who doesn’t love neat and organized plumbing? I used Viega with the polymer fittings. Very few brass fittings/connections any where in the system. Even the water heater is plastic interior. Literally one of the best things I did was tear out the plumbing and redo it on my house.



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[alexb2000]

Who doesn’t love neat and organized plumbing? I used Viega with the polymer fittings. Very few brass fittings/connections any where in the system. Even the water heater is plastic interior. Literally one of the best things I did was tear out the plumbing and redo it on my house.


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Nice! Cadillac system. Those manifolds are spendy, but what an advantage for service.

 

[itllgrowback]

Who doesn’t love neat and organized plumbing? I used Viega with the polymer fittings. Very few brass fittings/connections any where in the system. Even the water heater is plastic interior. Literally one of the best things I did was tear out the plumbing and redo it on my house.

Man, that is slick.

I love well-done copper lines, but that manifold setup is really cool.