Check out my 100A subpanel!

[FelixWankel]

Hello! I've been lurking around here long enough I thought I'd share my first "real" garage project that was made possible with a lot of very informative and helpful threads in this forum. I've been a long time gearhead, racer, and now engine builder, hopefully someday car builder. Two years ago we moved into a house with a beautiful 3 car finished and insulated garage. The stalls are oversized so the whole thing is around 1000sqft with 12ft ceilings. So needless to say I've got some big plans for it in the future like flooring, lighting, compressor, welder, lift, heater, tools, tools, more tools, fridge, etc. In order to do all that I thought it'd be a good idea to get some power in there first. Right now there's only 4 outlets and 4 single bulbs for light total...

I decided to install a 100amp subpanel, more juice than I'll ever need hopefully. My main panel is in an unfinished basement about 30ft from where I chose to mount the subpanel in the garage. I got lucky and was able to run the HUGE 1/0 aluminum SER cable along the joists in the basement right up to the spot the subpanel was going to go. I decided to mount the subpanel to a approx. 4ftx2ft piece of 3/4in plywood so I had to cut out a bit of drywall.

I chose to use a SquareD 100A main breaker as my subpanel so I'd have a way to shut it all down from the garage. I mounted that to the plywood and ran the SER cable up through some 2in EMT. Eventually I'll finish up the wood and paint it, should look pretty decent. The conduit and breaker box are solid as a rock, can't wiggle them even the slightest bit.

There was one bigger knockout left on the top of my main panel in the basement. The only problem I'm having is that in order to screw in the cable clamp to the box I'm going to have to do something about all those plastic Romex connectors in the way. They don't appear to be able to loosen.

Are these things permanent and need to be cut off or am I missing something? They are rigid plastic and as hard as I try to pull that push tab out with a pliers it doesn't budge..

Thats as far as I've gotten so far. Any observations or advice or criticism gladly excepted. Once I get it all wired up I'll be able to install the 7500W Farhenheat Garage heater thats been gathering dust in the garage.

 

[Aceman]

I going to give it to you straight. The way you ran the SER cable into the panel looks terrible and isn't right or legal.

Was there not enough room to bend the cable so it could come into the back of the panel? If that's the case, what I would do in your situation is use a piece of aluminum flex instead of that hodge podge of random fittings and conduit you're using right now. Stub the flex into the wall with a flex connector and plastic bushing on the end of it. Same with the end that goes into the panel. Make sure the SER cable is secured as close to the flex as possible.

For those romex connectors, try pinching the tab that is inside the panel. A little tab sticks out to lock the connector in once you push them into the panel, you need to find that tab and squeeze it back in while trying to pull the connector out of the panel. If all else fails, just break it apart and use a new connector, they're cheap and not worth screwing with.

 

[FelixWankel]

Thanks for the input Ace. It was quite a chore to manipulate that gigantic SER cable. I initially wanted to flush mount the subpanel but opted to surface mount it to make future wiring and running EMT all over the garage easier in my opinion. That left me to run the cable up through the bottom of the box. As far as the "hodge podge" of connectors goes, there's a clamp connector at the box and in order to join that with the 45 degree piece of conduit I needed to put in that extra threaded connector in between. I stared at all the different options of connectors at Menards for a long time and thats the best I could come up with.

I could do flex, it just didn't seem as safe to me as the EMT conduit. The way I set it up definitely isn't pretty but you could hit that conduit with a baseball bat and it wouldn't move. Which so far my inspector is aware of my entire plan and he hasn't brought up any red flags. However, he hasn't seen it in person yet either.

 

[chops101]

I would have found a spot to flush mount it. A nice big garage like that deserves a nice clean pro-look install.
Yeah it's a drag having to do dry wall patch over and over if flush mounted, but that goes with the territory and the new welder/air compressor/car lift/whatever makes it all the worthwhile.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I going to give it to you straight. The way you ran the SER cable into the panel looks terrible and isn't right or legal.

Was there not enough room to bend the cable so it could come into the back of the panel? If that's the case, what I would do in your situation is use a piece of aluminum flex instead of that hodge podge of random fittings and conduit you're using right now. Stub the flex into the wall with a flex connector and plastic bushing on the end of it. Same with the end that goes into the panel. Make sure the SER cable is secured as close to the flex as possible.

For those romex connectors, try pinching the tab that is inside the panel. A little tab sticks out to lock the connector in once you push them into the panel, you need to find that tab and squeeze it back in while trying to pull the connector out of the panel. If all else fails, just break it apart and use a new connector, they're cheap and not worth screwing with.

Yes its ugly and not in a good spot but why is it not code legal?

 

[Aceman]

Yes its ugly and not in a good spot but why is it not code legal?

He doesn't have the required bushing(s) installed on the conduit because he has a cable clamp installed incorrectly on the side the bushing should go on.

 

[FelixWankel]

I agree it is ugly now but I'm not finished yet! After I'm done running the emt around the garage I plan to give it a much more finished look. Probably even "frame" it, kind of a surface mounted flush hybrid type dealio if you will, then fill in the gaps around the plywood, paint, etc.

I've touched base with my inspector at least 6 times throughout this whole process. I would be very surprised if he didn't give me a pass as it stands at this point.

 

[arsco]

I would also look into the rating of plywood vs sheet rock for burn time fire code

 

[pattenp]

He doesn't have the required bushing(s) installed on the conduit because he has a cable clamp installed incorrectly on the side the bushing should go on.

Why would a conduit end bushing be required since he is using a clamp screwed into the coupling. Yes, it's not the conventional way of doing it but it doesn't strike me as being a code violation.

 

[nine4gmc]

just a dumb question here but do the water pipes in the same stud gap as the sub panel cause any problems? I assumed you can not run electrical panels and water pipes in the same space?

 

[FelixWankel]

Why would a conduit end bushing be required since he is using a clamp screwed into the coupling. Yes, it's not the conventional way of doing it but it doesn't strike me as being a code violation.

Not sure how else I could've the EMT connection at the breaker box. I'm under the impression that the SER cable needs to be clamped at both panels per code. Never saw a connector or other piece of EMT that would allow me to both clamp the cable and put a plastic bushing inside the box. If someone knows a remedy for this I'd love to know.

 

[pattenp]

A clamp is not required on the conduit where the cable enters the panel. The EMT compression fitting end goes in the knockout hole and you would use an EMT bushing on the end. You would need to staple or clamp the cable at the entry end of the conduit that's in the wall. If stapled you use a bushing on the conduit end in the wall.

 

[FelixWankel]

A clamp is not required on the conduit where the cable enters the panel. The EMT compression fitting end goes in the knockout hole and you would use an EMT bushing on the end. You would need to staple or clamp the cable at the entry end of the conduit that's in the wall. If stapled you use a bushing on the conduit end in the wall.

Thanks for clearing that up. I misinterpreted the code as to where the cable needs to be clamped. I'm gonna redo the way the conduit passes through the wall and enters the subpanel so I can get rid of the spacer and get a plastic bushing on the inside of the box. The rest of the cable is stapled to the joists in my basement and then passes through a cable clamp as it runs into the main panel.

 

[CNGsaves]

Just a dumb question here but do the water pipes in the same stud gap as the sub panel cause any problems? I Assumed you can not run electrical panels and water pipes in the same space?

+1 to have guru Sparky's answer above. Is that vent pipe, or actual water drain??

OP you did well to plan the removable panels so that you can get back in there later if necessary.

 

[pattenp]

just a dumb question here but do the water pipes in the same stud gap as the sub panel cause any problems? I assumed you can not run electrical panels and water pipes in the same space?

There's no code restriction I know of that says wiring isn't to be run in proximity to plumbing.

 

[Aceman]

Why would a conduit end bushing be required since he is using a clamp screwed into the coupling. Yes, it's not the conventional way of doing it but it doesn't strike me as being a code violation.

I thought it was a code violation for not following manufacturers instructions using the product the way it's listed. But, I honestly haven't found any documentation to back up my claim so I'm going to back off this. I will say I know the clamp is intended to be installed outside the enclosure but I haven't found anything that says it must be installed that way.

 

[pmilin]

Why don't you just feed the SER wire in one of the rear holes of the box. Then you can get rid of the conduit all together. Seems like that would be a cleaner way to go.

 

[pattenp]

I thought it was a code violation for not following manufacturers instructions using the product the way it's listed. But, I honestly haven't found any documentation to back up my claim so I'm going to back off this. I will say I know the clamp is intended to be installed outside the enclosure but I haven't found anything that says it must be installed that way.

I know where you're coming from but I honestly don't recall seeing any requirements as to whether a screw type NM clamp is to be install only from the outside of the panel. I know the 2 piece style clamp can used on old work where the clamp can be installed from the inside because of no access to the panel from the outside.

 

[nine4gmc]

+1 to have guru Sparky's answer above. Is that vent pipe, or actual water drain??

OP you did well to plan the removable panels so that you can get back in there later if necessary.

There's no code restriction I know of that says wiring isn't to be run in proximity to plumbing.

Thanks guys, I would have thought that would be a no-no...

 

[pattenp]

Why don't you just feed the SER wire in one of the rear holes of the box. Then you can get rid of the conduit all together. Seems like that would be a cleaner way to go.

Looks like the plumbing vents may be giving him a problem on getting the wire up to the back of the panel.

 

[FelixWankel]

Yep, the wall is 6in deep, need more than that to make a 90deg bend with that monster SER cable

 

[D45]

Did you used the Square D QO or Homelite panel?

How many circuits?

I am in the market for a new Square D also.........and am going with the QO line

My shop is also 1,000 sq feeet, just not sure how many circuits I will be needing or using

I currently have a 100 amp 6 circuit panel that needs replacing

 

[FelixWankel]

Went with SquareD QO 20 circuit panel, 100A, hopefully way more than I'll ever need. But when you start running a few things on dedicated circuits it adds up fast, heater, compressor, welder, lighting, etc. Garage is about 1000sqft also.

 

[D45]

yeah after thinking more and more, the 20 circuit will be tight for me

I am leaning towards the 24

 

[FelixWankel]

100amp garage subpanel version 2.0. No more cable clamp in box, emt cleaned up a bit.

 

[Aceman]

Much better!!!!

 

[FelixWankel]

Thanks for all the good advice so far. Now I've got to fill in that gap around the EMT with some fire resistant caulk, paint that plywood, and get the thing inspected. I want to post up a pic of the main panel just in case anyone might notice some red flags I'm not aware of.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Post em up!

 

[RickP]

Looks good - nice job!

 

[CH4]

100amp garage subpanel version 2.0. No more cable clamp in box, emt cleaned up a bit.

Thank you for posting what you are doing with the install of your box.



I have been trying to figure out how to proceed with my project and it never occurred to me to remove the drywall *itself*. Replacing it with plywood is slick.

 

[FelixWankel]

Thanks for the compliments, I appreciate them all. Here's some pics of the other end of the project. Again, it was quite a wrestling match with that 1/0 SER cable but in the end I had my way with it more or less.

This is where the cable travels into the garage above the walkway to some stairs that lead from the basement up to the garage.

Here you can see most of the course the cable took to get to the main panel, I will be replacing some of the ducting with flexible stuff so its not resting on the cable. Not sure if that required or not but seems like a good idea to me...

Was just barely able to get the room for the cable to come down 90 degrees into the panel. Went through the last 1 1/2 inch knockout available on the top.

 

[acer66]

Interesting, I have not seen brackets supporting the drain pipe from underneath, I guess I have to get out more.

 

[jeff000]

It's looking pretty good and while I wouldn't use those plastic clips because I don't think they hold well enough, they won't be an issue.

All the Romex being in one bundle is a no no, max 3 in a bundle, and should have failed the inspection at install time, I wouldn't worry about it now though.

Why don't you just feed the SER wire in one of the rear holes of the box. Then you can get rid of the conduit all together. Seems like that would be a cleaner way to go.

To go into the rear a 90 degree connector would have worked great.

Thanks guys, I would have thought that would be a no-no...

The pipes are fine, electrical will cross plumbing all over the house. As long as the ends of those pipes and wires aren't close there is no problem at all.

Interesting, I have not seen brackets supporting the drain pipe from underneath, I guess I have to get out more.

I was thinking the same thing. Around here you're lucky to get some of that metal strapping with all the holes in it.

 

[ishiboo]

Looks great!

Minor nit-picks for me... For future reference, you CAN install the panel "upside-down" so that the feeders went directly to the main/neutral lugs. I am pretty positive they make the correct ground lug for the ground bar (especially since 200A panels use the same bar size) to accept your ground from the end (and "vertically") instead of that lug you have. I would also have tried a stud bay around it to flush mount

 

[jeff000]

Looks great!

Minor nit-picks for me... For future reference, you CAN install the panel "upside-down" so that the feeders went directly to the main/neutral lugs. I am pretty positive they make the correct ground lug for the ground bar (especially since 200A panels use the same bar size) to accept your ground from the end (and "vertically") instead of that lug you have. I would also have tried a stud bay around it to flush mount

Now that you mention it, I see it looks like there is a bottom entry lug for the ground.


Also make sure the bonding screw between the ground and the neutral is removed if there is one.

 

[ishiboo]

Now that you mention it, I see it looks like there is a bottom entry lug for the ground.


Also make sure the bonding screw between the ground and the neutral is removed if there is one.

Bonding screw is gone.

I think the ground lug that it came with may not be big enough for his ground, or he thought it wasn't.

 

[Zrexxer]

Thanks guys, I would have thought that would be a no-no...

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should...

 

[FelixWankel]

Update! Just had the inspector over today and passed with flying colors. Strangely, he mentioned I should have the green bonding screw installed on the subpanel. I was under the impression you only want the main panel bonded and NOT the subpanel?

 

[alfredeneuman]

You're right.
The neutral is supposed to grounded at the service ONLY!

 

[FelixWankel]

So I'll leave the bonding screw out of the subpanel I guess. What exactly is the issue if you have both the main and subpanel bonded?