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AlphaGarage

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He could have added the cost per square foot for DIY.

Also, he could have done a better job on his calculations for the depth of coating per ft2 - he's way, way, off...

Thin coating systems use much less material than thick ones. Eq; a gallon of epoxy can yield 400 square feet at 1/64th of an inch or only 100 sq ft at 1/8th of an inch, and thickness usually determines the durability and longevity.

Not quite Einstein... One gallon of epoxy (or any liquid for that matter) spread at a depth of 1/64 inch will cover just 102.656 square feet, and at 1/8 inch that would only cover 12.832 ft2. Both figures assume a 100% solids epoxy, and do not account for waste (usually about 10 - 15%).

Now then, if you're dealing with a coating that is only 50% solids, and 50% extender (like water or solvents), if you had a gallon and you wanted the final dry coat to be 1/64" you could cover 51.328 ft2, a dry depth of 1/8" thick would cover only 6.416 square feet.

On the plus side, he is correct in that thickness does correlate to durability and longevity, as does (of course) the specific formulation - not all epoxies are equal.
 
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thegarageguy

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Not quite Einstein... One gallon of epoxy (or any liquid for that matter) spread at a depth of 1/64 inch will cover just 102.656 square feet, and at 1/8 inch that would only cover 12.832 ft2. Both figures assume a 100% solids epoxy, and do not account for waste (usually about 10 - 15%).


Alpha, please rethink your rant. This article is being very general but he's more spot on than you. When I gauge out my epoxy with a 1/8 inch notched trowel, my spread rate is 100 sqft per gallon. Of course this is on a sealed or primed surface, which is what I think he's referring to without being to technical and boring.

Your spread rates are wayyyyyy off. When you refer to "any liquid for that matter" is off as well. You can't compare a low viscosity liquid to a high build. You can't notch out a water base epoxy and you can't spread a 100% solids at 1/64 inch.

Things work out much different in the real world Alpha. On paper it all sounds good but in application it's another world. Spread rates are meant as a guide and not gospel. As this article is, just a guide.

Have you done any floors yourself Alpha?
 

SC-Eric

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I didn't take the time to read the article... lol... My A.D.D. is too active tonight... Fortunately, this is one of those arguments that has a definitive solution mathematically! There is absolutely no need to argue!

Here is how you figure it out:

1-Gallon of ANY liquid... (by this... I mean it could be milk, paint, lemonade, oil, urine, etc... ANY LIQUID) will cover 1604 square feet at a thickness of 1 mil.

1/8" is 125 mils thick

SO... If you divide 1604 (the constant for a gallon) by 125 (mils for 1/8") you find that 1 Gallon will cover 12.832 at 1/8" thick.

You can find more information about how to figure paint coverage (and this calculation) here: http://www.paintcenter.org/about.cfm
 
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thegarageguy

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No arguments here. You both need to get from behind your computers and put down your technical data sheets and super calculators.

Let me know when is the next time you guys get on your hands and knees and trowel out a floor.

So one gallon of 100% solids epoxy spread at an 1/8 inch will only go 12 sqft. How bout you guys brake open one of your cans and let me know how far it goes.

BTW, my mistake before. We use a 3/16 notch squeegee or trowel to get an 1/8 inch spread. And we do, we get about 100 sqft per gallon. Never 12.
 

SC-Eric

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No arguments here. You both need to get from behind your computers and put down your technical data sheets and super calculators.

Yeah... we're just some kind of desk jockeys who have never been on a job before... lol... I would insult you back, but... well... that would make me a small person.

Let me know when is the next time you guys get on your hands and knees and trowel out a floor. So one gallon of 100% solids epoxy spread at an 1/8 inch will only go 12 sqft. How bout you guys brake open one of your cans and let me know how far it goes.

This isn't exactly the first time I've figured out how many gallons of product it takes to coat a surface at 1/8". Last month we sent an entire 53' tractor trailer to do 1 job. And, when you send a tractor trailer load of product to do a job that is a long distance away, you can't have a bunch left over and you can't come up short. I don't have to be on my knees troweling product to know if I figured it out right... it's too late then. But, I've been there... on my knees... troweling... on jobs.

BTW, my mistake before. We use a 3/16 notch squeegee or trowel to get an 1/8 inch spread. And we do, we get about 100 sqft per gallon. Never 12.

Our problem is that you think that a 3/16" notched squeegee or trowel will give you 1/8" of product on the floor. It doesn't... Depending on the viscosity of the product, the surface tension, and the wear on the squeegee you will get 16-20 mils (~ 1/64"-1/50"). You will notice that most manufacturers recommend a 1/4" to 5/16" notch to even get 60 mils... which is only 1/16". The larger the notch the less clingage you get at the apex of the notch. And, the correlation of notch size is NOT linear at these depths. A 1/16" notch will not give you double the coverage as a 1/32" notch.

Again, it makes no difference what the liquid is (assuming no evaporation). If you dump 1-Gallon of Dawn Dish Detergent on the floor at 1/8" thick, it's going to cover 12.832 square feet (until it evaporates). And, it works the same way in every country in this world... on every continent, and for every applicator... using every product... from every company.
 

AlphaGarage

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I'm going to assume we're all here to give out the best info we have, so we can cut the slights, snarky comments, and personal insults.

I was not "ranting" - I am pointing out that the author of the article made an error, a very, very, large, significant error. If, as a contractor, you agree to coat a floor to a dry depth of 1/8 inch, which is 125 mils thick, and you deliver a floor coating 16 mils thick (about 1/64th of an inch) - the customer was outright cheated. That's not a rant, it's not my opinion, that is plain, straight forward, simple math.

To review, when one gallon of liquid is poured out on a smooth, flat surface at 1 mil wet thickness, it covers an area of exactly 1,604 square feet. (don't take my word for it, see here; here, or here.)

If you want to figure out how many square feet would be covered to 2 mils, divide 1,604 by 2;

1,604/2=802

If you want to know how much area a coating 1/8 inch deep (125 mils deep) would cover, divide 1,604 by 125;

1,604/125=12.832


Now if we want to deal in real world application, we'll subtract 15% for waste (12.832 - 10% = 11.5488), get rid of the decimal point, and round down to 11 square feet.

Anyway you look at it, claiming that a gallon of epoxy will cover 100 square feet when the demonstrable real world area is about 11 square feet - well let's just say someone goofed - and it's not me.

Since individuals may use these numbers to plan projects, if you have any issues with this math, please post them, if I'm wrong - I have no problem admitting that and correcting them.

Here's a quick chart you can download (I think) and refer to if you want to figure out the amount of square feet a gallon of liquid will cover at various depths.

If you want it in PDF, just PM me for a copy

coveragepersqft.jpg
 
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AlphaGarage

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Alpha, please rethink your rant. This article is being very general but he's more spot on than you. When I gauge out my epoxy with a 1/8 inch notched trowel, my spread rate is 100 sqft per gallon. Of course this is on a sealed or primed surface, which is what I think he's referring to without being to technical and boring.

Your spread rates are wayyyyyy off. When you refer to "any liquid for that matter" is off as well. You can't compare a low viscosity liquid to a high build. You can't notch out a water base epoxy and you can't spread a 100% solids at 1/64 inch.

Things work out much different in the real world Alpha. On paper it all sounds good but in application it's another world. Spread rates are meant as a guide and not gospel. As this article is, just a guide.

Have you done any floors yourself Alpha?

A. With the math he's not "spot on" - not even close.

Let's say someone is needs to put down a coating 1/64" thick, over 800 ft2. Reading the article "a gallon of epoxy can yield 400 square feet at 1/64th of an inch" they order 2 gallons. It arrives, they apply the coating, and it fails. Why'd it fail? Because it was supposed to be 15 mils (1/64") thick, but instead is at most 4 mils thick, and after waste etc., actually probably less than 3.5 mils thick.

B. He brought up the 1/64" spread rate, not me.

C. You can spread a 100% epoxy at 1/64", which is about 15 mils, a very common size of notch squeegee. (1 inch is 1,000 mils. 1,000/64=15.625, so 1/64" is about 15 mils.) We do not recommend notch squeegees for under 12 mils - don't even offer them.

D. As a guide it has bad info - very bad. Someone depending on that info "in the real world" could end up with very unsatisfactory results. I'm just trying to correct that error - what's your problem with that? Why make this personal? What have I written that has anything to do with you personally or professionally? It's just math - I didn't reference you at all - why call me out? If my math is bad, point out where. If I insulted you, point out where, Otherwise whether I spend my time behind a keyboard, on a calculator, on my knees spreading epoxy, of drinking a beer, have nothing to do with spread rates.

E. Yes I have done floors - no, not near as many as you, most likely not even 1/64 as many as you, probably not even 1/64,000,000,000 as you. But that doesn't mean I can't calculate coverage rates, furthermore I'm not selling my services as an applicator.

Here's the thing - you go out and do jobs for people who don't want to do it themselves, I have no issue with that at all - never **** in on your posts, never question why someone would pay 4x as much for a job that the could most likely do themselves. Honestly sometimes I'd rather pay to have someone do a project for me - even coat my floor!

I work with people who would rather do the job themselves. So far I'd say we've done a good job at it. Is DIY a bit more risky for the consumer? Not necessarily - but it can be, just like changing your own oil, fixing your own faucet, painting your bathroom, etc. etc. I strive to get people the info to have a successful project. Getting the math right is an important part of that effort.

That's it. This article had bad info. Unless your wrote it (heck, even if you did) please don't take the corrections personally - that's not my intention.
 
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AlphaGarage

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Yesterday we emailed the original site/author with our concerns about the numbers in the article. They got back to us... they've edited the information with the updated coverage figures.

Updated info - with emphasis added:
Thin coating systems use much less material than thick ones. Eq; a gallon of epoxy can yield over 100 square feet at 1/64th of an inch but only about 13 sq ft at 1/8th of an inch, and thickness usually determines the durability and longevity.


Nice guys who clearly take their mission seriously - hope to cooperate with them on an upcoming project or two Wolverine Coatings and Alpha Garage are working on.
 
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thegarageguy

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I stand corrected. I'll stick to creating beautiful floors the way I know how. I'll leave the technical babble to you guys. :)

BTW, In no way was I trying to make this personal. I guess my sarcasm doesn't translate well.
 

SC-Eric

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I stand corrected. I'll stick to creating beautiful floors the way I know how. I'll leave the technical babble to you guys.

BTW, In no way was I trying to make this personal. I guess my sarcasm doesn't translate well.

It's no big deal... There is a lot of meaning that just doesn't translate in writing on forums. It accentuates how important facial expressions are. Personally, I can see that you are very artistic and do beautiful work. I think that you deserve to have a certain amount of pride in that (and I don't exactly say that to just anyone).

Eric
 

51rider

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Right, so now you guys have had your storm in a teacup could you let me know if there is a distributor for Wolverine products in the UK?
 

AlphaGarage

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Right, so now you guys have had your storm in a teacup could you let me know if there is a distributor for Wolverine products in the UK?

Our storm was either in the teacup - or overflowed the teacup - depending on the volume of the teacup.

That aside - we do not have a stocking distributor in the UK - although we do ship to UK & Europe. Product for 500 ft2 weighs about 115 lbs.
 

51rider

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Our storm was either in the teacup - or overflowed the teacup - depending on the volume of the teacup.

That aside - we do not have a stocking distributor in the UK - although we do ship to UK & Europe. Product for 500 ft2 weighs about 115 lbs.

chronicles-riddick-2.jpg


death by teacup.......?

Thanks for the reply. Need to work out patterns & colours.:bounce:
 
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