Check this Product out? Thoughts Comments Needed Please...

[WolverineCoatings]

Oh... almost forgot...

There is no one perfect flooring product.

thegarageguy never used any of our products... lol...

Sorry dude... how could I resist... lol

 

[thegarageguy]

What I get from this is that if you are a pro then you won't divulge any information about the way that you have found that works great or the material to use that works the best.

Its not about divulging secret information. Our suppliers will not sell to the public. I cant say this enough, there is no one single product or installation technique that works for every surface.

I am pretty sure that 95% of the guys that are looking to finish the floor on this site all have the same requirements. Mine are something that is durable, won’t do the hot tire pickup, and looks great. I just want to park my truck and do a little bit of mechanic work on it.

If thats the case then find a pro installer with a good resume and referrals and a good guarantee. You might pay a little more but in the long run you get no headaches and stress from a failed floor and then pay more to fix or cover up.

I have been in the same trade for 28 years (it has absolutely nothing to do with flooring though) and if someone asks my opinion then I will answer to the best of my abilities.

Well then you, as a professional should know that you get what you pay for and a jack of all trades is a master of none. You want your floor done right, no headaches.......get a pro.

We are just a bunch of DIYers that need a little (OK a lot) of guidance with doing our floors.

do a search of older posts and see what other DIY have done and what type of success or failures they have had and take a shot

To all the Pros out there - Is there anything that you have had excellent success with?

Yes, but none of my material is sold to the public and only sold in quantities.

Is there anything that you have had no success with, If so, what was the cause?

1. Acid etching (very inconsistant and high risk for failures)
2. using bondo or a hard curing patching material
2a. before patching cracks, they need to be chased open first.

What is the best way to prep the floor, acid or grinding?

1. diamond grinding or shot blasting

Have you ever had hot tire pickup happen? If so what was the most probable cause?

Yes, when I first got into this business 5 years ago. bad prep, acid etching and or using crappy patching material.

What part of the job sounds the easiest but is actually the hardest?

finding a good flooring contractor

Any constructive info given would be greatly appreciated by many

You have 2 choices;

1.If your going to do it yourself, find a place that rents diamond grinders (with diamond inserts) or shot blasters. Then follow the directions to what ever product your gonna use.

2. Hire a qualified, well reffered pro in your area.

Hope I helped

ps
Wolverine, the failures I mentioned where with your products.......Just Kidding

 

[JD in DFW]

I know where he (JD) is coming from... You see, anyone can view these forums and he doesn't want to give valuable information to his competitors on the net... I bet he might PM you though... maybe?

I'm going to ask some questions that haven't been asked that I think is information that should be known that is being withheld. Keep in mind, we don't sell into the DIY market at all anymore and I can't ever recall competing with Rocksolid/Citadel anywhere in the US... or world for that matter. So, my questions are not about any benefit to our own company. And, I don't know JD as far as I know.

Anyway, I've skimmed this a bit... We also make Polyaspartic Coatings and Polyureas. We don't offer those to just anyone. Most of what we do require much more chemical resistance than a polyaspartic can take. It sounds like the DIY product contains solvent but I never saw where it actually said if it did or didn't. To me, being a formulator and knowing Polyaspartic technology since the early 90s I've been a bit confused. It seems like there are two products being discussed but you never know which one is being talked about? From my point of view... there is a 100% solids product and then a DIY product that might be ? maybe about 80% solids guessing from the cure speed. I don't see anywhere where it is clear what you get for the money.

I mean, if you need a really quick return to service and exterior durability then a polyaspartic is a natural chemistry for that. Does anyone understand what you get for the money?

It seems like this is MUCH more expensive than the other options here and you end up with a much thinner floor than U-Coat It, Epoxy-Coat, or BudgetBob.

400 ft2 per gallon is about 4 mils if 100% solids and only 3.2 mils if 80% solids...
300ft2 per gallon is 5.3 mils if 100% solids and only 4.3 mils if 80% solids...

Most of you guys that we have worked with when we were in the DIY market had some beat up floors. (You guys must use your garages) Anyway, the thicker you put product down the more bad surface you are going to cover. Even most new floors have little potholes and pitmarks that would not be covered up with only a few mils.

So, what am I missing?

* PS, I'm not asking this to just open up an opportunity for RockSolid to plug his product. I don't sell them anything (that I know of) and if I know him I'm not aware of it (I know alot of people in the paint industry). Polyaspartic chemisty is good and may be a good option for some of you. But, I think when you are comparing floors you need to know exactly what you are getting for the money. I don't want to put words in JD's mouth but it just seemed that he was feeling like this wasn't adding up in his mind either.

What a great thoughtout reply....where have you been Wolverinecoatings during this whole discussion. I think the above is an excellent response and covers it well. Wolverine is right as in his comment about professionals keeping their suppliers and product make up info close to their chest. I have no problem with sharing what I have tried and what does not or did not work for me in my business with regard to coatings, methods of prep and other garage accessories and equipment. As for what I have spent hours and hours researching, testing and spending money on in the form of doing no margin jobs to test product on(family and friends garages). The labor that I put forth and paid for as well to test these coatings and the materials and equipment cost to test, research and study the results, of these products and chemistry I really would rather not divulge if it a current product I am using. I am a small independent company, not a franchise so unlike a fellow that buys a franchise he pays for all that product research, testing ect. Also the products I buy for the most part are not sold to the general public anyway, primarily professional contractors or applicators. I actually like the DIY concept for many tasks, but some things are better left up to a person that has thousands of sqft of finished floors under their belt. I would not try to do my own electrical, plumbing or trim work. Could I get through it on my own? Maybe with marginal results. I trimmed out the kitchen and breakfast area in our home.....ask my wife how it turned out. Joints don't look quite tight and I did have to do a couple of short fill in pieces, due to my lack of practice and repetition with a miter saw and a ability to eye a wall and know exactly what length, cut and method to go with limited my results. Much the same with a floor coating. Yes many coatings on the market that are offered to the DIY guy for garage/concrete applications are simple to apply. With that said many of these same coatings fail with in months or years of application, which in many cases is due to improper prep, and cheap chemistry with in the product. I can't tell you how many epoxy and DIY coated floors both residential as well as commercial I have come behind and replaced. I should note that I have also replaced 3 of my own floor jobs where a coating failure took place. In 1 case I attribute this to improper prep(I used an etch back then and finally learned my lesson) in the other cases I was using a coating with a chemistry that did not perform as stated over a three year period. In all cases the floors were replaced, at my expense.

Like many here I would be more then happy to share what I can where I can. I will never make an offering for my services on this board publicly. If someone contacts me and asks me to come out and quote them, I'd be happy to do that. If anyone here asks me about a certain product, method or garage accessory/equipment I'd be happy to share my .02 to give either my positive or negative experience with the item, but I will never offer to sell it to them on the board.

Crewcab in regard to your questions:
Is there anything that you have had excellent success with? Depends on the floor and what the floor is going to be used for. Stay away from the cheap DIY epoxies that are everywhere. Goes back to the old saying "you get what you pay for" Is there anything that you have had no success with, If so, what was the cause? Acid etching is not my friend. I have brainwashed myself with grinding and will never go back to a cheap form of prep, not with the warranty I offer.
What is the best way to prep the floor, acid or grinding? See above, but each method has it's place I know
Have you ever had hot tire pickup happen? If so what was the most probable cause? Yes with cheap chemistry and epoxies, improper prep also can play a roll here.
What part of the job sounds the easiest but is actually the hardest? Well for a DIY doing his own floor I would say finding the best product that he has access to. Again educating yourself is always the hardest part in a DIY project I think, and then in many cases being able to accept that maybe this is one project I need to contract out.

If anyone here wants to bounce a question off me with regard to floor coating, garage accessory or a piece of automotive equipment I would be more than happy to assist if I can. But lets do this off line either by PM, e-mail or your welcome to call me on the cell, I enjoy talking shop when I have the time. I wont down talk another manufacture or their product if I have never used it and have first hand knowledge of its performance, if I have I'll share what my experience was or is. I have stated what chemistry make up I use, but can not pass on my supplier/manufacture. Their are many on the market, Citadel being one of them and I guess Wolverine Coatings as well. I did not know that they did Polyureas and Polyaspartics, but I would bet they do not sell these to the general public due to the fact that with many of these chemistry's they need to be applied by one that has been trained with the chemical and how it reacts to the environment it is being applied on and in.

Again my responses were not aimed to incite or start a debate, really just looking for some clarification on the product, it's coverage, performance and make up. Thanks Wolverine for providing some of this with regard to coverage per ft2 and solids makeup.

Ain't garage talk grand! Now go out in the garage and enjoy!

JD

 

[MrCrewcab]

You guys have renewed my faith in mankind.

Thank You for all the info. There was more good stuff brought up there than I expected.

After rereading my post, I must apologize for sounding like a dink. It's just frustrating trying to learn something about what to use on your floor. Once this stuff goes down it's so permanent and a failure would terrible.

Pro's deserve to protect what they have learned the hard way. I was thinking that I was not really competition to them anyways beings I live about 3000 miles away from any of them but never considered the fact that their competition could be trying to figure out how to do that job just as good with out the blood sweat and tears.

Anyways I was trying to find out where to rent a floor grinder and was told that a scarifier was what I could use instead.

Think this is a good alternative?

Thanks Again
KevinR

 

[WolverineCoatings]

ps
Wolverine, the failures I mentioned where with your products.......Just Kidding

lol... I know... we've never ever had a product failure.

What a great thoughtout reply....where have you been Wolverinecoatings during this whole discussion.

Busy... the latest expansion is STILL not complete, Bill's last day was today, and if anyone orders something that is not in the warehouse we're sold out for at least 3 weeks. And, we're low on our two hottest selling products.

Also, even if I would have come earlier, it would have been disrespectful if I were still a competitor.

 

[Steve1968LS2]

Anyone know of a GREAT installer in SoCal? I would really like the Polyureas or Polyaspartics type since the down time is a lot less. I don't like my car outside

 

[WolverineCoatings]

Hi Steve,

You won't have any problems finding a good applicator in your area. You live in my old stomping grounds... I grew up in Whittier.

Good Luck

 

[JD in DFW]

You guys have renewed my faith in mankind.

Thank You for all the info. There was more good stuff brought up there than I expected.

After rereading my post, I must apologize for sounding like a dink. It's just frustrating trying to learn something about what to use on your floor. Once this stuff goes down it's so permanent and a failure would terrible.

Pro's deserve to protect what they have learned the hard way. I was thinking that I was not really competition to them anyways beings I live about 3000 miles away from any of them but never considered the fact that their competition could be trying to figure out how to do that job just as good with out the blood sweat and tears.

Anyways I was trying to find out where to rent a floor grinder and was told that a scarifier was what I could use instead.

Think this is a good alternative?

Thanks Again
KevinR

Naw Kevin I don't think you came across that way at all. If you want to shoot me an e-mail I'll point ya to one place that might have a product that would work for you and they sell kits that are geared toward the DIY as well.

I don't know how many different style sacrificer's there are but the ones I have seen are way too aggressive for garage floor prep. Most use a cylinder design if I'm correct and are designed for fairly aggressive prep or texturing of concrete. Call around to the major rental companies in your area and ask if they have 10" diamond grinders, most will be electric. I use a duel disc 24" diamond grinder with a 13 hp Honda gas and can totally prep a 3 car garage in less then an 1.5 hrs, not including kissing the edges. You will also need a decent vac system with a good drywall/concrete dust bag and or filter.

You might also search on line or in the on line yellow pages for a floor prep company in your area that can come out and either grind or shot blast the floor for you. In my neck of the woods this runs from $1.75-2.25 a ft2. Of course this would be the quickest way. The key is to expose the virgin concrete and take off the surface level of concrete...kinda like taking the first layer or so of the floors skin. If you have a sealer or coating already on the floor you will probably have alittle more work on your hands depending on how much is there and how it's currently hold up and bonded to the concrete.

JD

 

[Steve1968LS2]

Hi Steve,

You won't have any problems finding a good applicator in your area. You live in my old stomping grounds... I grew up in Whittier.

Good Luck

The problem is that there's so many and they all sound good in the "pitch"...

 

[67 455 Bird ragtop]

Send me your copy of Larry's filler and I'll tell ya .... LOL

 

[Mordi]

I am also looking for a good installer in Southern California (San Diego) and have not found anyone - anybody have a reference for me?

thanks,
Mordi