check your chimney

[jb3]

some pics from a recent uncovering of someones attempt to bandaid a dangerous situation. this was purposely covered up with flashing, a roofer discovered it for me

This chimney is 3 stories up above two driveways and a sidewalk heavily populated with foot traffic




fixing it without knocking the whole thing off will be interesting

 

[Ilikeike]

When I had a wood burning fireplace in my last older home,I had a chimney sweep come clean and inspect it twice in the 10yrs I owned the home.
Probably a good idea for most.

 

[jb3]

When I had a wood burning fireplace in my last older home,I had a chimney sweep come clean and inspect it twice in the 10yrs I owned the home.
Probably a good idea for most.

this is a furnace chimney for two steam boilers and some water heaters, amazingly the lining is uncracked and its clean all the way up to where its sheared at the roofline a bit, despite the total disintegration of the support above the roof.

chimney is approx 85 years old

 

[Movover]

You take it down one brick at a time.. very carefully.

Luckily the snow or wind didn't finish it off!

 

[jb3]

You take it down one brick at a time.. very carefully.

Luckily the snow or wind didn't finish it off!

Im wondering if snow and ice this last winter didnt force it over as far as it is now, but i cant believe it hasnt fallen yet

Ive got a gung ho mason coming this weekend on an emergency basis
Hes doing what you say, one brick at a time, but hes building a plywood form around the base first he says. Everything above is very solid still and take some work to break up that might knock it off the roof first.

 

[dutchgray]

You take it down one brick at a time.. very carefully.

Luckily the snow or wind didn't finish it off!

Even if your really careful, sometimes they just fall apart, its better if there is two people to do it.

 

[poppop]

No fixing that,tear it down,build new.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

I wouldn't be so sure that anyone purposefully covered it up.
Looks like there has been some repairs/tuck pointing over the years. They couldn't get to the area under the flashing. I'd also guess that some roofs reused old flashing and if they put in new flashing they didn't repair the mortar.

 

[4xdog]

My chimney was 76 years old a couple of years ago, and while not quite as bad as yours, we decided to rebuild the whole thing. Not a trivial project on my home, but it turned out well and now the place is good for another eighty years or so.

You've got a nice project ahead of ya.

 

[jb3]

I wouldn't be so sure that anyone purposefully covered it up.
Looks like there has been some repairs/tuck pointing over the years. They couldn't get to the area under the flashing. I'd also guess that some roofs reused old flashing and if they put in new flashing they didn't repair the mortar.

You could be right, roofer was convinced some shady stuff was going on there, but may not have considered that perspective.

I have not personally been up to check in person, glad to pay a mason to run amok up there and keep my feet on the ground.

 

[jb3]

My chimney was 76 years old a couple of years ago, and while not quite as bad as yours, we decided to rebuild the whole thing. Not a trivial project on my home, but it turned out well and now the place is good for another eighty years or so.

You've got a nice project ahead of ya.

That came out really nice! This is no where near as decorative or tall, but im hoping for an attractive functional rebuild with a cap

Thats a nice place, i like the slate roof

 

[LS6 Tommy]

I wouldn't be so sure that anyone purposefully covered it up.
Looks like there has been some repairs/tuck pointing over the years. They couldn't get to the area under the flashing. I'd also guess that some roofs reused old flashing and if they put in new flashing they didn't repair the mortar.

X2. Looks to me like that flashing may have held moisture in and actually caused the damage.

Tommy

 

[dfiler2]

From the pictures it looks like that chimney is at the bottom of a valley. It seems to me that would always be a problem.

 

[Davidad1]

All chimney's crack at the roofing , especially one of that age .


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Playwme]

That has some pretty thick mortar lines. Is that normal for chimneys in your area?

 

[Jackfre]

The thing about masonry chimneys is they are 11th century technology venting 21st century appliances. In '92 the codes changed and mandated a minimum efficiency of 78% on gas fired equipment. The National Fuel Gas code, NFPA 54, has the venting table and masonry chimneys are not supported except for very high btu loads. NFPA 31 the Oil Installation code (I was on that committee for 15 yrs) has the venting tables in the appendix E.

If that was my chimney I would take the whole thing down and go with factory built flues that are low mass and will heat up and dry off quickly. The OP's situation is a fairly common situation where condensation at the top has eroded the masonry. Cement is a lime based product and limestone is what the neutralizer on condensing appliances use. The ph on the condensate is about 3.2 for gas and about 2.8 for oil. Pretty hot in other words. If you keep that chimney in operation, I would drop a SS liner down the flue. If it is a straight shot, I'd go smooth walled pipe. If it requires flex there is a 20% capacity reduction. A liner will help operation of the appliances.

JB3, your mason did a really nice job, and your chimney is an architectural device now.

 

[LifeLongWNYer]

Not to hijack the thread, but can a chimney sweep also repair chimneys?

My Mom had a chimney which was connected to a wood stove blocked, because she was afraid to use the stove after Dad died, and she was sick of hearing the birds in it. I want to open it up, but want any needed repairs done before I use it. The outside of the visible section looks good, but I'm worried about what I can't see.




.

 

[justanengineer]

some pics from a recent uncovering of someones attempt to bandaid a dangerous situation. this was purposely covered up with flashing, a roofer discovered it for me

Chimneys like that are the reason I always take a ton of high-def pictures when I look at houses, bc its really easy to see issues from the ground that you wouldnt have noticed otherwise. As sloppy as that chimney is outside the flashing, I'd have had a good mason looking at it asap.

 

[jb3]

That has some pretty thick mortar lines. Is that normal for chimneys in your area?

have some new pics to post shortly, according to the mason this was not the original chimney and was poorly constructed. Until you mentioned this I didn't realize how thick the mortar was from the rest of the brick construction in the building

 

[jb3]

The thing about masonry chimneys is they are 11th century technology venting 21st century appliances. In '92 the codes changed and mandated a minimum efficiency of 78% on gas fired equipment. The National Fuel Gas code, NFPA 54, has the venting table and masonry chimneys are not supported except for very high btu loads. NFPA 31 the Oil Installation code (I was on that committee for 15 yrs) has the venting tables in the appendix E.

If that was my chimney I would take the whole thing down and go with factory built flues that are low mass and will heat up and dry off quickly. The OP's situation is a fairly common situation where condensation at the top has eroded the masonry. Cement is a lime based product and limestone is what the neutralizer on condensing appliances use. The ph on the condensate is about 3.2 for gas and about 2.8 for oil. Pretty hot in other words. If you keep that chimney in operation, I would drop a SS liner down the flue. If it is a straight shot, I'd go smooth walled pipe. If it requires flex there is a 20% capacity reduction. A liner will help operation of the appliances.

JB3, your mason did a really nice job, and your chimney is an architectural device now.

the really pretty one is 4xdog's chimney, pics below shortly of what was done this weekend on mine

Definitely want to add a liner eventually, its apparently lined with tile

 

[jb3]

Not to hijack the thread, but can a chimney sweep also repair chimneys?

My Mom had a chimney which was connected to a wood stove blocked, because she was afraid to use the stove after Dad died, and she was sick of hearing the birds in it. I want to open it up, but want any needed repairs done before I use it. The outside of the visible section looks good, but I'm worried about what I can't see.




.

the mason I hired said hell no on cleaning the chimney, so at least that guy doesnt do both.

He did say i have a lot of creasote up there and he got filthier than he intended, so I do need a sweep next. Im to wait several weeks first he said though to prevent any damage and allow the mortar to really harden

 

[jb3]

so some finished pics-

This was the two day temporary wrap made up of roofing material-



staging for the work-



work before flashing-



and finished-

 

[jb3]

Chimneys like that are the reason I always take a ton of high-def pictures when I look at houses, bc its really easy to see issues from the ground that you wouldnt have noticed otherwise. As sloppy as that chimney is outside the flashing, I'd have had a good mason looking at it asap.

not necessarily, its tough to get a gauge of condition from the street before the flashing was removed, even with a close up pic that might show some sloppy brickwork. It looked like an old chimney, but no idea of the real damage until I had the building re-roofed and they stripped everything.

fortunately it did not kill a tenant or a passerby

 

[LifeLongWNYer]

So if a chimney sweep only cleans chimneys, and a mason only builds them, who can look at one and tell whether it needs (1) cleaning, (2) repairs, (3) both, or (4) nothing?

I like the idea of an inspector, if I hire the guy who fixes a chimney to inspect it, most likely it will need repair.




.

 

[Highbeam]

so some finished pics-

This was the two day temporary wrap made up of roofing material-



staging for the work-



work before flashing-



and finished-

Whoa! That chimney is unlined. It doesn't even have a tile/clay liner. After seeing that I am most worried about the portion of that chimney inside your attic and house. Any cracks in that mortar down below means pumping deadly CO into your living space as well as a fire hazard.

And where is the crown? I would expect that crown to hang over the edge of the brick so that water would drip onto the roof instead of running down the brick.

 

[F124C]

So if a chimney sweep only cleans chimneys, and a mason only builds them, who can look at one and tell whether it needs (1) cleaning, (2) repairs, (3) both, or (4) nothing?

I like the idea of an inspector, if I hire the guy who fixes a chimney to inspect it, most likely it will need repair.
.

Here (in Ireland), many chimney sweeps apart from cleaning will also will do a camera inspection of the inside incl. any liner, a smoke/leak test, creosote removal, plus some other tests I can't remember. Many also will instal 'crow guards' on the chimney pots and will check out the external chimney condition, flashing etc. while up on the roof.

Maybe call a few chimney sweeps in your area and see what additional services they offer?

Al.

 

[weadjust]

X2. Looks to me like that flashing may have held moisture in and actually caused the damage.

This. Looks like moisture got behind the flashing. The freezing moisture causes spalling in the bricks causing them to fall apart.

 

[Ironhorse74]

So if a chimney sweep only cleans chimneys, and a mason only builds them, who can look at one and tell whether it needs (1) cleaning, (2) repairs, (3) both, or (4) nothing?

I like the idea of an inspector, if I hire the guy who fixes a chimney to inspect it, most likely it will need repair.




.

I started down my career path many moons ago. I was a National Chimney Sweep Guild certified sweep. Now Chimney Safety Institute. We cleaned chimneys but more importantly we inspected chimneys. We also repaired and relined chimneys. Back in those days we took poloroid pictures and we also scanned chimneys and made vhs tapes. I never once recommended a repair that wasn't needed.

Brad

 

[jb3]

Whoa! That chimney is unlined. It doesn't even have a tile/clay liner. After seeing that I am most worried about the portion of that chimney inside your attic and house. Any cracks in that mortar down below means pumping deadly CO into your living space as well as a fire hazard.

And where is the crown? I would expect that crown to hang over the edge of the brick so that water would drip onto the roof instead of running down the brick.

Tile lined up through the roof, he didnt continue it to the top of the chimney (probably should have)

Ill ask on the crown

 

[Jackfre]

"Probably should have"....Your new chimney is a facade only. It is in no way a complete and safe chimney. NFPA 211 requires a clay tile lined chimney. The liner must be joined with refractory cement (not lime based portland). There has to be a 1" air gap between the tile and the brick.

Is this venting a fireplace or furnace/boiler/water heater. If the later you are in luck. All you need to do is drop the correct liner down the brick facade. If the former, you need someone who knows the rules and will follow them. As it sits, with a wood fire below it could easily burn your house down.

 

[jb3]

Venting a gas and an oil boiler, and two water heaters.