Chevy Volt suspected in sparking Garage FIRE

[ptschram]

Gillen said GM is sending its own investigator to the scene.

Why does GM think it has a right to access? What will they do if the homeowner refuses access? Unless financed through GMAC (do they even do that anymore?) they don't have a dog in the fight.

Do they send an investigator to the scene of every garage fire with one of their vehicles in it?

 

[kfosburg]

Maybe the Samurai rolled over and started the fire... I read a news story once that they will basically roll over through no fault of any driver...

 

[spazzer]

A google search found this: http://www.evalbum.com/1059

more searching found this:

https://picasaweb.google.com/stormconnors/SparkyTheElectricSamurai#

*DISCLAIMER* I'm not placing blame on any parties. I thought the photos were interesting.

 

[Displaced Hokie]

I've seen some burt things, and folks always go "look there, those wire are burnt up and arc'd together". Well yeah, when the thing burnt down the insulation melts off and things do get together. Subsequent damage, not the primary cause.

I agree, likely not the Volt. But...if it is....DOOOOOM for GM.

 

[djjsr]

Looks like there's 2 issues.

The first is the cause of the fire and it hasn't been identified. Lots of speculation and everyone's entitled to their opinion. None of them count except those of the fire inspector/investigator.

The second and more important issue is that the family was able to get out of the house alive with no injuries and apparently minimal damage to the house. Sounds like the working smoke alarm and the adequate firewall did their jobs.

I gotta climb up on my soapbox here for a minute. Please be patient, I'm getting old and it takes a little longer.

I've made some negative comments about using OSB on garage walls and here's why ..........
As we all know, most newcomers to this forum comes here for ideas and advice. Sometimes they look for info on what to put on the walls of their garage. Sometimes people recommend sheetrock and sometimes people recommend OSB. Sometimes the firewall is mentioned and sometimes it's not.
Sure, it's the "newbies" responsibility to be sure he sticks to all buildings codes but Tom, **** and Harry on the GJ forum all say OSB is what they used and he assumes they know what they're talking about.

So the newbie lines the garage with osb and is oblivious to the potential problem. Somewhere down the road something really bad could happen.

If you want to use OSB, that's up to you. You make your decisions based on what you know and your situation. But the next time you recommend it to someone else, try to remember to tell them to check their local codes. It may save their life.

Houses burn down every day. Sometimes a sheetrock firewall makes a difference, sometimes it doesn't. All I know is that I would never jeopardize my family's safety by putting osb on the walls of a garage attached to my house.

Sheetrock is fire resistant. OSB is fuel.

Just my opinion.

 

[swharris]

goto Drudge Report, his headline is:

Chevy Volt Sparks Garage Fire...

Gov't Motors nears 52-week low after report...

LOL, yeah that's where I go for my "news" Drudge is so full of bullsh!t he makes Rush look legit. What a joke.

 

[cowboyjosh]

LOL, yeah that's where I go for my "news" Drudge is so full of bullsh!t he makes Rush look legit. What a joke.

I like Drudge, but like any political leaning website, you have to take it for what it is. Especially someone like me that is fiscally conservative but politically in the middle.

To Drudge credit he does break some big stories, and post stories you dont see on local tv and newspaper sites, only after Drudge reports do other sites follow suit. On the other hand i tire of Drudge conspiracy theories about Google, Apple, etc.

I listen to Rush for about 20 minutes a week, fat *******.

 

[G_P]

http://www.wfsb.com/news/27586692/detail.htmlBARKHAMSTED,Conn. -- A hybrid electric Chevrolet Volt believed to have sparked an overnight blaze in a garage in Barkhamsted last week, reignited again on Monday.

The state fire marshal's office is investigating how the electric car parked at a Center Hill Road home caught fire Monday morning.

Last week, homeowners Storm Connors and his wife, Dee, woke up to the sound of a smoke alarm around 4 a.m.

The couple's garage, where they parked their new Chevrolet Volt hybrid, was on fire. Firefighters were able to put out the blaze. A firewall built between the home and the garage saved their home.

Investigators with the state fire marshal's office and the couple's insurance company, at the time, suspected the hybrid car have had something to do with the blaze.

On Monday morning, firefighters were called back to the home when the car caught fire again.

The fire is under investigation.

 

[99_xc600]

http://www.wfsb.com/news/27586692/detail.htmlBARKHAMSTED,Conn. -- A hybrid electric Chevrolet Volt believed to have sparked an overnight blaze in a garage in Barkhamsted last week, reignited again on Monday.

The state fire marshal's office is investigating how the electric car parked at a Center Hill Road home caught fire Monday morning.

Last week, homeowners Storm Connors and his wife, Dee, woke up to the sound of a smoke alarm around 4 a.m.

The couple's garage, where they parked their new Chevrolet Volt hybrid, was on fire. Firefighters were able to put out the blaze. A firewall built between the home and the garage saved their home.

Investigators with the state fire marshal's office and the couple's insurance company, at the time, suspected the hybrid car have had something to do with the blaze.

On Monday morning, firefighters were called back to the home when the car caught fire again.

The fire is under investigation.

Ok, Help me out here.

If the car was a possible suspect or reasoning in the fire. Why would you put the same suspect back in the garage or anywhere near your property?

 

[torqueman2002]

A google search found this: http://www.evalbum.com/1059

more searching found this:

https://picasaweb.google.com/stormconnors/SparkyTheElectricSamurai#

*DISCLAIMER* I'm not placing blame on any parties. I thought the photos were interesting.

Full disclosure - I am a GM employee.

I think the photos are interesting as well.

The crimps, non-sealed terminals, and component placement indicate to me he used less than 'best practices' in design and assembly.

Not assigning blame, just an observation. I'm not close enough to the situation to offer an informed opinion.

As others have pointed out, GM has a lot riding on the Volt and the European Ampera. As such; there is a tremendous amount of development, verification, and validation effort and time involved with the launch of this vehicle. There is a fleet (hundreds) of Volts driven daily in real world conditions by employees and 'civilians' to gather and capture data.

I work on the Volt's internal combustion engine diagnostics. It is used in the Chevy Cruz, and is a know quantity. The quality of design, implementation, and assembly of the entire Volt, are all 'best practices'.

I'll be disappointed and surprised if the Volt is implicated.

The 'fat lady' has yet to sing.

 

[jay50]

GM's up **** creek over this one; watch their lies begin.

 

[ddawg16]

What I find interesting about the second fire is that it happened in the first place. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not normal practice to disconnect the battery after an accident and/or fire?

I'm pretty sure most fire dept's have been trained on where the main disconnect is for the battery pack....if the main disconnect was in fact operated then maybe one of the batteries was damaged by the fire and it slowly got worse...which begs me to wonder....why the vehicle was left in there after the fire?????

 

[toxicz28]

What I find interesting about the second fire is that it happened in the first place. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not normal practice to disconnect the battery after an accident and/or fire?

I'm pretty sure most fire dept's have been trained on where the main disconnect is for the battery pack....if the main disconnect was in fact operated then maybe one of the batteries was damaged by the fire and it slowly got worse...which begs me to wonder....why the vehicle was left in there after the fire?????

I agree 100%! And I wonder, why was power still on in the house?

 

[spazzer]

http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/

 

[ddawg16]

I just found a link to one story that said the second fire started in the batteries....so it sounds like the battery pack did catch fire after the fire....which I would not say is an unreasonable event....

It also had a good pic of the garage.....without being there, no way to tell where the fire originated....but....if it was in the batteries...then I would have a hard time believing that they caught fire again a few days later.....

 

[cowboyjosh]

forgive my ignorance.

On Hybrids, I think a few years ago I read where there were extremely high voltages, much more dangerous then the standard 12 volt systems in conventional vehicles. Is this the case, or not, anyone really know the electrical specs on cars like the Volt and Prius?

I've been a Volunteer Fireman for a number of years and yes it is pretty standard to disconnect the battery after an accident, if the FD doesn't usually the tow driver does.

Sometimes if the car is "evidence" it can be a hands off situation until the fire/accident investigator arrives; its a case by case basis.

 

[Hurricane_Whisperer]

Full disclosure - I am a GM employee.

I think the photos are interesting as well.

The crimps, non-sealed terminals, and component placement indicate to me he used less than 'best practices' in design and assembly.

Not assigning blame, just an observation. I'm not close enough to the situation to offer an informed opinion.

As others have pointed out, GM has a lot riding on the Volt and the European Ampera. As such; there is a tremendous amount of development, verification, and validation effort and time involved with the launch of this vehicle. There is a fleet (hundreds) of Volts driven daily in real world conditions by employees and 'civilians' to gather and capture data.

I work on the Volt's internal combustion engine diagnostics. It is used in the Chevy Cruz, and is a know quantity. The quality of design, implementation, and assembly of the entire Volt, are all 'best practices'.

I'll be disappointed and surprised if the Volt is implicated.

The 'fat lady' has yet to sing.

Looking at the Samurai, there are a whole lot of batteries (probably lead acid) in a small space next to the battery controller.

Lead acid batteries release hydrogen. I doubt the controller is explosion-proof or intrinsically safe.

 

[rickairmedic]

I agree 100%! And I wonder, why was power still on in the house?

After our house fire last year I had partial power in the house by that evening . I have a neighbor/buddy that is an electrician . We pulled every wire out of the panel that day and ran some new circuits for temp power by that afternoon .


Rick

 

[meissen]

Some of the story is missing, I live near by, he also has a do it yourself electrified Suzuki car. Sounds like lets blame the deep pockets.

I can't believe they didn't include that in the media report -- how misleading!

 

[adam728]

I can't believe they didn't include that in the media report -- how misleading!

I know, what's more suspect? - a production vehicle that's undergone thousands of tests, and thourogh FMEA, or a home brewed electric vehicle. Hmm......


But the GM haters here love to jump on board and blame the Volt. Logical thinking be-damned!

 

[Lotek]

The hybrid battery is 355 volts, but when the car is shut down, contactors open inside the battery case on both positive and negative cables. It also has a 12 volt battery in the trunk area which would be quite capable of starting the secondary fire if the wiring was damaged in the first fire and it wasn't disconnected, as in any car.

The juryrigged scheme he describes for charging his Samurai batteries is just scary.


Charging
I had to send a 24V module out for replacement by the vendor. This means I have a 132V pack and a charger that has 144 and 156V settings. How to charge? I decided to try a "bad boy" charger. A bridge rectifier is connected to the 120V AC with the battery pack connected to the + and - of the rectifier. This bridge rectifier is about an inch square and consists of 4 diodes connected such that the AC is converted to DC. It works out to about 160V of pulsating DC. It can be used to charge batteries from 96V up to about 144V. 144V won't fully charge.


This is certainly not a recommended safe practice.


Bolt the rectifier to a chunk of sheet aluminum to act as a heat sink. Make the connections to the battery pack. Hook together all the extension cords you can find and plug in the rectifier. See what the charge rate is in amps. If it is over 10 amps, borrow some more extension cords. (The extension cords lower the voltage.)


Mine turned out to be 2 amps. I kept removing cords. One short cord worked fine. 10 amps when the batteries were low tapering down to 5 when the batteries approached full.


I recommend that you have a timer that will shut off the power when you expect the battery pack will be fully charged. If you don't have a timer, set an alarm clock to remind you to turn it off. I use the alarm on my cell phone to remind me to check on them every couple hours. Remember, the max voltage you should charge to depends on temperature.


A ways back I explained how to use a transformer in buck or boost mode to give better output voltage control.


Please be careful. I am not recommending anyone do this. Electricity is dangerous. Touching bare wires and connections can cause shocks which can be fatal. Don't set your lawyers on me! You've been warned.

 

[spazzer]

Looking at the Samurai, there are a whole lot of batteries (probably lead acid) in a small space next to the battery controller.

Lead acid batteries release hydrogen. I doubt the controller is explosion-proof or intrinsically safe.

He had made the switch to NiMH (nickel metal hydride) batteries last year sometime.
The 2nd page of his blog states at the time there were "patent issues" with using the batteries he has in an electric car:

http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/2010/02/nimh-arrives.html

This one may be damaging though:

http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/2010/09/charging.html

 

[meissen]

And not to mention that if the battery pack did indeed catch on fire later, obviously it wasn't the original cause because if the battery pack caused the fire then wouldn't the pack be nothing but ash?

 

[ddawg16]

And not to mention that if the battery pack did indeed catch on fire later, obviously it wasn't the original cause because if the battery pack caused the fire then wouldn't the pack be nothing but ash?

I totally agree....considering the damage to the garage, I don't see anyway the volt batteries could be the original cause....and then catch fire again.

Reading the guys blog....yikes....might as well say guilty.....even if the other car was not the cause....

I need to check on NiMH charging characteristics...I think they are somewhat like NiCad in that they self limit on voltage....but if they are like Lead Acid batteries...then his "Baby Boy" charger would be a big no no....

 

[SuperSocket]

He had made the switch to NiMH (nickel metal hydride) batteries last year sometime.
The 2nd page of his blog states at the time there were "patent issues" with using the batteries he has in an electric car:

http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/2010/02/nimh-arrives.html

This one may be damaging though:

http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/2010/09/charging.html

This guy is totally careless and reckless. Enjoy being denied that insurance policy...

 

[G_P]

sounds like the charger for the samuri involved a huge pile of coiled up extension cords all hooked together acting like a resistor to limit charging voltage.

sounds like a HUGE fire hazard to me!

 

[rwhite692]

I know, what's more suspect? - a production vehicle that's undergone thousands of tests, and thourogh FMEA, or a home brewed electric vehicle. Hmm......


But the GM haters here love to jump on board and blame the Volt. Logical thinking be-damned!

Exactly! The "owner/victim"seems like a tinkerer/crackpot hobbyist with no real engineering knowledge, who thinks he knows electric vehicles better than GM.

It also seems strange to me, that a guy like this would even be interested in owning a Volt.

I'd be willing to bet that the charging setup or supply that he provided for the Volt did not meet the stated GM requirements.

Check out his battery cooling solution on his electric Samurai (attached pic). The garden hose is a nice touch.

 

[adam728]

This happened just down the road from me, and I'm a retired member of one of the FD's on that scene. Anything regarding a cause is only conjecture until the investigation is complete.

I'll post the findings when I hear them. Until then, the immediate lesson here is to remember the importance of proper fire blocking in an attached garage. It saved these folks' house, and possibly their lives as well.

Ever hear any more? I searched for any newer articles about it and found nothing, which makes me assume that means the Volt wasn't found guilty. The media would be quick to yell it from the mountain tops if it had been the cause.

 

[dwilliams35]

He just forgot to set the "do not detonate" switch.

 

[CULLY]

I read today that the home built vehicle caught on fire and the extreme heat from this fire melted the insulators on the volt causing them to short out and catch fire. Seems to make good sense to me. That home made electric car looked like a cobbled mess waiting for problems.

 

[cowboyjosh]

Its a shame the mainstream media cant be honest enough to have found and linked to this guys home made electric car disaster before everyone including myself pointed finger at GM.

Sadly in most cases anything home made, usually built piecemeal including cars, boats, and aircraft, the end results rarely turn out well.

 

[Bender78]

Ever hear any more? I searched for any newer articles about it and found nothing, which makes me assume that means the Volt wasn't found guilty. The media would be quick to yell it from the mountain tops if it had been the cause.

Thanks for the reminder....I had forgotten about this thread.

The fire marshal has closed the investigation and turned the matter over to the insurance company. The Volt is not believed to have had any part in the cause of the incident. Interestingly, due to the amount of damage to both the vehicle and the structure, there is no conclusive proof that the owner built EV was the ignition point. Local scuttlebutt has not indicated any issues with the insurance company.

 

[Ford12508]

I just picked up a pocket rocket my friends dad got for free the yesterday. He said one of his friends got it for free because it didn't work, and he didnt want to fix it. He got it for free and didnt want to fix it either. So I took it off his hands, tore it down, and before I even got all the wires disconnected I saw about 5-6 major problems in the wiring from exposed wires down to unplugged connections. It is a wonder no one got shocked bad from this thing.