Chimney classification

[250]

I'm trying to verify if this is a class A chimney or not. This is in the attic of a house we've bought last year. I has an open fireplace which we've never used, and we're spinning up to replace it with a free standing stove. What else would I need to check to verify its classification?

Thanks,
David

 

[fitter30]

Might want to contact this company. Martin filed bankruptcy and Monessen bought their manufacturing facility and discontinued this size FTF8 pipe.
Contact Center Hours:

877-863-4350

Monday through Wednesday: 8:30 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. (CST)
Thursday: 9:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. (CST)
Friday: 8:30 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. (CST)
Closed Saturdays, Sundays and most major U.S. holidays

 

[250]

Are chimney systems proprietary? Meaning if this company is gone, are we going to have to rip out the entire chimney because we can't connect to it?

 

[gmcgeo]

if you want to replace the unit, then you would have to replace the chimney and or venting application to the new desired fireplace.


unless you find the same models of fireplaces that would work with this.... and the models are on the vent pipe l12 l36 and so on. see attached fireplace.

 

[PCustoms]

Are chimney systems proprietary?

Pretty much, unless someone has made a listed adapter or it is generic stovepipe in the living area

 

[Jackfre]

The fireplace manuf pretty much all made their own pipe. Bigger sale. Pull the box, trash the pipe. From a regulatory standpoint all the manuf said was that it worked with their box. I replaced a fireplace in my daughter new (old) home with some manuf box. Sxxxcan the whole system. Having represented the two largest venting manuf in the country for 25 yrs I have never heard of any manuf making an adapter to another’s product. In venting like so many other things liability rules the day.

 

[TractorJeff]

We have 8-inch chimney pipe, similar situation. The new high efficiency wood stove is designed for the draw on a 6-inch pipe. The stove company recommended putting a 6-inch liner in. Good chance you will end up doing this also. Just put it inside the pipe you currently have. 2-inch clearance tells me that it is probably safe pipe to use. A friend of mine had a house that had a fireplace insert stove that never worked well until he had a liner installed.

 

[billconner]

What TractorJeff said. My brother sells stoves - one of the largest dealers in north east - and my son is an installer. Just put a liner through this and new cap. A good installer should be able to add insulatation around fireplace so it's not a lot of cold air.

New wood or pellet stove? (or gas maybe? will assume not coal, as much as I like coal)

 

[250]

Wood burner. We were looking at a green mountain 60, but getting one might be a problem. The ambiance hipster 20 from what I've read is essentially the same stove with the door opening the other way and a few, minor styling differences. The house we bought has this horrible insert fire place. Open, ***** more heat out of the house than it puts in.

I have generally been able to find enough free wood in the spring for the next winter. We had one in our rental, and I was really nice as a supplemental heat source and cut down on the propane use.

I read up a lot on the different stoves, but completely missed the whole chimney connection issue. We got a full install quote, though at the time we were planning to do most if not all the work ourselves. The chimney liner option looks MUCH more attractive than replacing a 25ft stack, and I suspect works better than adapting to the existing 8 inch some how.

 

[250]

I've started looking into liners. With it going into a Class A chimney, would it still be beneficial to install an insulated liner? If I understand what I need (and I admit I may be missing parts) I need the following. The stove will be in an alcove built to the stove manufactures clearances, venting straight up.

-Stove adapter
-Black double wall pipe, approx 3 ft
-Insulated wall thimble
-Some sort of bracket to support the existing 8 inch chimney to the new framing
-Chimney liner 25ft, plus or minus
-Some sort of bracket to hold the top of the chimney liner at the top of the chimney.

What else am I missing?

 

[billconner]

I believe for wood stove you want an insulated SS liner to lessen creosote buildup. I think. Wish I could put you in touch with my son. He did all the certifications for installing (in PA) and attended the conventions, etc., and knows this stuff backwards and forwards.

In your list, I wasn't sure you included all things needed for capping - flashing - at top.

"Support for existing" - are you removing existing fireplace? If so, why?

 

[PoorUB]

Just a precaution, in my area you would not be allowed to run a liner up an existing Class A chimney, you would need to rip it out and replace it with one recommended by the manufacturer of the wood stove or fireplace insert.

Also this might void any listings for the wood stove. Chances are slim it would cause a fire, but I would hate to have a fire, and have my insurance drop me over an "altered" chimney.

 

[250]

There is a flashing/cap assembly in place already. Don't know if it would be reusable or not.

Its some sort of fireplace insert. The best way to describe it is device that got framed in, so I guess its zero clearance, but designed to mimic a old fashion open fire place. I built one fire in it after we moved in last year after I confirmed the chimney wasn't capped in some where. Got more heat out of block of ice than the fire so I gave up using it. What we've been told is this unit is for ambiance, not any heat production. This summer I suggested we replace it with a free standing unit in an alcove to the mrs.

I stopped by the place that gave us a quote and asked a few question. Unfortunately the guy that does the work wasn't there, just the gal behind the desk. Basically all her answers were no, we don't do that, but she had nothing when it came to why or why not.

Maybe someone here will know... They'll hook up a fireplace to liner in a masonry chimney and run it up. Is the only difference between the two if someone in a lab scenario has tested it? Because I see no different functionally between the masonry and a class A stack.

 

[billconner]

I asked my son. Here are those texts beginning with my question:

Question for someone else: Can you put a 6" SS liner in an 8" flue of existing zero clearance fireplace for a wood as stove, not an insert?

Generally a zero clearance box is not to be relined. Liners are tested and listed to be in a masonry enclosure with a nominal wall thickness of 4".

That being said there are liner kits made by reputable companys that do not compromise the air cooled part of the zero clearance pipe

Generally loose is attributed to installer sealing the top plate directly to the top of the chimney. Then the air circulation for the outer layers is void

Sorry. Kind of a non answer. I have used the kits because that's what <employer> wanted done. Working for myself I would not do one

************************

So I was wrong. If I read this correctly, the difference between masonry and class A is the class A depends on the air space.

I therefore recommend an all new flue. Not what you wanted to hear. I think my son would suggest getting a direct vent stove if you're on an exterior wall, and not count on existing flue and fireplace.

 

[billconner]

correction - wrong again - can direct vent gas and pellet, not wood.

So find a kit for a liner in a class a OR put in all new glue.

Sorry I can't connect you to my son. His last text:

Code says wood stove termination must be 2 ft higher than anything within 10 ft

 

[250]

The termination elevation is good. Its 4ft above the ridge, give or take. Not on an exterior wall.

Bill, of course its not what I want to hear. But I can accept something and not like it, and I'd rather hear it for someone that has no monetary interest in the matter.

The hipster manual says we can use an adapter to go from a 6 to 8 inch stack, but I get the impression it isn't ideal. Then there is the question of finding one that would work.

 

[billconner]

Again, it from listening to my son and brother discuss this, but I think if the stove is designed for 6", it won't draft right in 8". I think it will not be as warm and will build up creosote faster, but I could be very wrong.

Out of curiosity, would the vent from the new stove go through the existing fireplace opening or would you have to cut into wall above it? And putting drywall and masonry or metal over that, behind new stove?

A lot easier if you went to a wood insert.

 

[gmcgeo]

Replace the vent with an approved vent application that you are going to go with

 

[250]

@bill, That's my concern with the 8 inch stack. The plan is to build out an alcove for it to sit in. I've gone through the manual for the prospective stove as well as the fire code referenced while planning, so I have a soft plan but until I open up the existing wall and see how they framed things when it was built, I don't know exactly what modification will be needed.

We did have one company suggest an insert. My wife isn't as interested in that pass, and the quote was something like 25% more than the turn key free standing stove quote was.

 

[billconner]

If your going to "build" an alcove where existing zero clearance is, which sounds like a good idea, I think you might as well put in new 6" ss flue through roof. I don't think it's that much more work. I'm guessing ceiling of alcove is near same as ceiling in room.

 

[250]

This is the general idea of what we're trying to accomplish. I did talk with the main guy at the fireplace store. He said we could put a liner in, however I think the issue that he couldn't articulate was how to support to old chimney stack for the liner to run in. Expending electrons to talk about it is free, but I'm sure the simplest and most expensive way of doing it would be a new stack.

 

[billconner]

Yeah, quick look - $100 a foot or more it looks like, though liner is not cheap - maybe in the $25 per foot range.

Have you found hearth.com? bulletin board there that might get more experienced eyes for your issue. I just registered (go to forums and hit the icon of a key - very easy and fast) but didn't feel I should ask you question.

Looking at products because you want to cut off and support the flue above the zero clearance fire place, I'd assume it needs to be at a manufactured joint. Maybe part of your original post but availability of that product and one that joins with it seems key. I'm sure you can temporary support it while installing a ceiling/top in alcove for permanent support.

I'll diy anything but this for me would raise the question if I should.

I really like to that image - will be beautiful I'm sure. Best wishes.

 

[250]

Thanks Bill, I've enjoyed the conversation. I've spent some time reading about stoves on Hearth.com but never joined up. I'm up for diy a lot of stuff, becaues the quality of work that seems to be available in our area isn't any better than what I can do most of the time. But I'm not going to rip something like this apart until I know exactly how its going all back together. Maybe its time to join up and ask the question there. Not much to loose.

 

[billconner]

I wish you were in the northeast and I'd just connect you to my son.

I'll be with my son and brother over Thanksgiving and can probably get more definitive options for you.

I'm dubious anyone can connect new 6" to existing 8", but maybe.