Chimney Liner - Clay inside Mortar

[Zrxpilot]

Hoping someone can offer some advice. I am selling my house. Inside the house I have a wood burning stove. A very nice one. It feeds from the garage side with a very large fire box. On the other side of it ( as seen from inside the home) it looks like any other fireplace with glass doors and a big hand-laid brick surround that goes up the entire height of the house.

Heres the rub. On top of this fire place is two flues. Each flue is made of standard interlocking clay blocks of appropriate size. Each flue is independent of each other. One for the fire box and the other for the venting of an oil furnace. From the exterior it looks like one big chimney with two outlets. The entire assembly was installed professionally when the house was built in 1996 and inspected with the house. It has worked flawlessly since day one and I have no reason to doubt its current performance or reliability.

The inspector doing the inspection for the buyer flagged the chimney as not having a stainless steel liner inside the flues. (actually " Flue") and has simply requested we install a liner in the chimney. Didn't say which side or acknowledge there is two flues. I think he thinks the furnace vent is simply plumbed into the wood furnace flue as if there was only one outlet out of the chimney.

I looked up into the firebox and down from the top looking for anything that looked odd. Looks like a chimney. I don't see chunks broken out or anything.

Not sure what to think. Do I bring up the question of which side he wants fixed only to have him come back and say both or just pick one side and have someone put a liner in it. Sounds like I can expect to pay between 1500-1800 for one liner. Ugh. Or...this inspector hasn't got a clue about the design

 

[Ironhorse74]

I did this stuff for years. The big brick enclosure is the chase. The clay tiles are the flue. From your description there should be three flues. 1) wood stove in the garage 2) fireplace 3) oil furnace. None of those appliances can share a flue with the other. If your wood stove shares the flue with the fireplace, you are screwed, you will have to remove the stove and seal the breach. If it shares it with the oil furnace and there is enough room in the clay liner you can run two stainless liners down the same flue.

I would bet at least one of those flues is offset. You should be able to go on top on a bright sunny day with a mirror and shine the light down the flue and see what is going on.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

As long as its clay and the furnace and fireplace each have a seperate flue it doesnt need another liner .
Home inspectors drive me nuts to say the least,If I had a dollar for every time Ive tripped over 3-4 obvious code violations to look at the 1 non issue theyve written up.

 

[TractorJeff]

Last home buyer building inspector I ever used was a retired painter. He stated they take a class to get "certified" but have no intensive training. They are expected to be "knowledgeable" but not experts. If he thinks it needs it, get a local mason who specializes in fireplaces and chimneys or a local trusted HVAC contractor/installer to go over it. If your selling, its to your advantage, if you are the buyer its to your advantage also. As one person gains and the other loses!
When I bought my current house the chimney sweep stated the fireplace insert stove was illegal and the other woodstove had the wrong class of steel chimney on it. I used these facts to get the house purchase price lowered. Then brought in a fireplace installer/mason to inspect and certify to the Insurance company that all was correct and UL listed to get my House Insurance cost lowered!

 

[Zrxpilot]

Fwiw...I am the seller. The chimney has two separate flues. A larger separate flue for the fireplace and a small separate flue for the venting for the oil furnace.

I also came to the same conclusion regarding my next move. Call a chimney guy and have him come out and take a look. Take it from there.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Call a chimney guy and have him come out and take a look. Take it from there.

SMART !

Just get something in writing that it has been inspected by a licensed professional and it passes.


The only time I have heard of a stainless liner is for gas/oil fired furnaces/boiler. This is because their flue temps are not hot enough to keep the moisture from combustion in vapor form all the way out of the chimney. The condensing water gets on and into the liner and will destroy it over time.

 

[LXCam]

Make sure your expert cites the applicable code sections so you can discuss this with the home inspector. If it was built to code in 96 and nothing has changed you should be fine.

 

[s_ontario]

Problem comes when the two flues have a common clean out if you have wood stove chimney fire it can cross over in the clean out box to oil flue


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[zak77]

Well he has to state something in his report otherwise it'll look like he isnt doing his job. I see this frequently, especially with woodstoves venting out a clay flue. For some reason people want liners, not sure who's pushing this issue but it seems i see liners go in for no particular reason other than it's the "norm". I think it's more of a piece of mind mentality where they think the stainless liner will last forever and never cause a fire. Yes clay flues can crack and breakdown over time but until that happens i think they're very safe. So you have 2 options, line it or not. You could also disconnect the stove and leave the next step up to the new owner. If they want to burn a woodstove then they can get it lined. It might drive the buyer away but you'll just have to wait till the next one comes along.

 

[My Old Tools]

Stainless steel liners are often used to retrofit chimneys without clay tile liners. Many chimneys down here are just brick, firebrick in the box, but just brick in the chimney. They were done that way for 100 years before clay tile liners became common here. It's pretty standard to line them with a retrofit liner to pass inspections or to add an air tight insert. If your clay tiles are solid, you shouldn't need anything else to my knowledge.

 

[Jackfre]

There are two codes which regulate your situation. NFPA211 rules the chimney and NFPA 31 is the Oil Installation code. 31 refers/defers to 211 for chimney inspections and there are specific levels of inspection called out in 211. I have not seen the most recent issue of 31, but would be surprised is it requires lining. I was on that committee for 15 years and the equipment manuf successfully fought the lining requirement. If the flue is obviously deteriorated the inspector may have a case. If it is not, and I would require that he specify precisely what he is seeing then, then you do not have to line that flue. PERIOD! Now, having said that the system will operate better with a SS chimney liner in it. They are costly. For sizing I would refer to Appendix E in NFPA31.

 

[nh_yota]

I'm having trouble following - are the wood stove and fireplace the same unit with openings on both sides? Or do you mean you have a separate wood stove and fireplace that feed into the same flue?

Regarding the metal liner - they are usually only required as a retrofit if the clay liner is damaged or if you switch from oil/wood to a gas appliance. If the clay liner is fine and you're only burning wood or oil you shouldn't need to retrofit a metal liner. Gas appliances emit lower temp flue gases with more condensation and the condensation can eat away at the clay lining of the chimney, or so I've been told.

 

[ishiboo]

Hoping someone can offer some advice. I am selling my house. Inside the house I have a wood burning stove. A very nice one. It feeds from the garage side with a very large fire box. On the other side of it ( as seen from inside the home) it looks like any other fireplace with glass doors and a big hand-laid brick surround that goes up the entire height of the house.

Heres the rub. On top of this fire place is two flues. Each flue is made of standard interlocking clay blocks of appropriate size. Each flue is independent of each other. One for the fire box and the other for the venting of an oil furnace. From the exterior it looks like one big chimney with two outlets. The entire assembly was installed professionally when the house was built in 1996 and inspected with the house. It has worked flawlessly since day one and I have no reason to doubt its current performance or reliability.

The inspector doing the inspection for the buyer flagged the chimney as not having a stainless steel liner inside the flues. (actually " Flue") and has simply requested we install a liner in the chimney. Didn't say which side or acknowledge there is two flues. I think he thinks the furnace vent is simply plumbed into the wood furnace flue as if there was only one outlet out of the chimney.

I looked up into the firebox and down from the top looking for anything that looked odd. Looks like a chimney. I don't see chunks broken out or anything.

Not sure what to think. Do I bring up the question of which side he wants fixed only to have him come back and say both or just pick one side and have someone put a liner in it. Sounds like I can expect to pay between 1500-1800 for one liner. Ugh. Or...this inspector hasn't got a clue about the design

Did you call the inspector and mention this to him, and ask him what his concern was? Sounds like that would be a lot easier than having everyone guess here.

 

[pop pop]

He could be speaking out of the wrong end of his anatomy. I'd find out what paragraph of what code is violated. If he can't answer, that is your answer.