Chimney repair question

[lordy123]

This really isn't garage related, however having just discovered this forum I thought it would be a good place to ask.

We just bought a home in SE Wisconsin and the projects are starting to stack up on me, through a few google searches about tools I landed here and wish I would have found this site sooner.

Anyways, the GF wanted the fireplace inspected before using it and wanted to go through a specific company for the work(Personal connection). I see some red flags in the quote I'd like to run by you guys.

Thanks in advance!
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Remove chimney dedicated to furnace to below roof line and close roof penetration: 1,875.00

This part of the quote seams somewhat reasonable price wise. But I don't need a mason to knock bricks down and close up the roof, I can do that. The red flag part comes in because we don't have a HE furnace, and this guy seems to think we don't need one. Given the price I don't think he's including any type of direct vent system. I questioned him on this and he said he'd check with his HVAC specialist.

Provide tuckpointing and brick replacement on fireplace chimney exterior: 1,685.00

I have attached the pictures of the bricks from his quote, assuming these are the only bricks that need replacing, is this high? Other than the two pics attached, I can only identify a couple more bricks in need of repair. I can get more pictures when I get home. Does that rate seem reasonable?

Remove failed concrete cap on fireplace chimney and install a cast in place steel reinforced concrete cap with 1.5' overhang: 2,821.00

It looks to me like our current crown could be repaired, but I'll admit this type of work is not my expertise. He keeps calling the crown a cap, I was almost certain the top metal part is the cap. Are these terms interchangeable? Price seems steep anyways.

Install elastomeric hybrid urathan sealant at concrete/ terra-cotta junction: 0.00

Free is good? Looks like he'd just be applying a commercial grade sealant.

Tuckpoint joint failures with refactor mortar in the firebox: 565.00

I only see two small places in the firebox that need some pointing, I can take some pictures.

Bold text is copied/pasted from official quote, spelling/grammar errors are his.
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Other than that I had him look at some grout eroding on the foundation(Our home inspector said this was just caused by weather, and the foundation of the house was solid. This was less that 40 days ago). I had a trusted GC look at this before buying the home as well, he said it was just tuck pointing work and would be well under $500 to repair it.

The guy who quoted me states the foundation needs to be excavated and new supports need to be added. He said he could quote it officially but it would be more than 18k for minimal repairs! I can add pictures of this later.

Obviously I will have a few other quotes done soon, but I'd like to know what you guys think about this one.

 

[SALIV8]

where are you at?

those prices seem steep to me. also make sure who ever does the caulking they use primer first.

 

[Elginz]

Where you are located makes for a big cost differential. You should add your location so you can get relevant help on things.
They do make a precast cement cap depending on the size of the chimney, mortar in place and seal (not calk) around the flue. There are more things, like how high up is this work, with out knowing any more I can't say. Any way I do everything myself. learn and save, and enjoy the fruits of your labor, the satisfaction of a job well done.
The chimney to come down is being used or not used?
"Obviously I will have a few other quotes" for sure.
After all that you won't have any $ left for tools.
I agree with "those prices seem steep to me".

 

[reader2580]

As far as removing a chimney it isn't too bad to do it yourself. The chimney I removed in my house was about 16"x16" with brick above the roof line and block below the roof line. It took me about two hours to remove the part above the roof, but that included hauling plywood up there for the bricks to slide off the roof. It took about 30 minutes to remove the portion in the attic. It took about 90 minutes to remove the chimney in the first floor down to the basement.

The basement took probably eight hours because there was a long wall built out of brick from floor to ceiling. Brick was wrapped around three sides of the chimney which added to my pain.

The biggest pain was getting rid of the brick and block. I hadn't figured out how to get rid of the brick and block before I removed the chimney. I had to pick a lot of it out of the grass and pile it in the driveway. I then moved it into a dumpster later. If I was smart I would have had the dumpster right away to avoid moving most of the brick and block twice.

 

[lordy123]

Where you are located makes for a big cost differential. You should add your location so you can get relevant help on things..

Thanks, the location is in SE Wisconsin(Waterford to be exact) and I added it to the main post.

There are more things, like how high up is this work, with out knowing any more I can't say. Any way I do everything myself. learn and save, and enjoy the fruits of your labor, the satisfaction of a job well done.

The work is not very high, I would feel comfortable doing it. The pitch of the roof is easy and I'm fairy certain I was touching the top of the chimney with both feet on the roof when I was inspecting the home before putting in an offer. I'll add some more pics as soon as I get home.

I try to do everything myself too, sometimes it doesn't go well but I'm always learning and have been able to correct mistakes or even do a project twice for less than paying someone to do it. That's part of the reason I'm posting here, I want to make sure I completely understand the scope of these repairs.

The chimney to come down is being used or not used?

Currently being used for the furnace, our furnace is not high efficiency so I'm pretty certain the chimney will need to stay or we'll need to replace the furnace with an HE one.

After all that you won't have any $ left for tools.

Right! I've been getting along with a crafsman tool box I've had since I was a teen and a craftsman 330 something piece mechanics toolset. But I keep breaking the ratchets so right now I'm looking to augment my wrench collection and keep using the sockets I have for now... Getting some SK and Carlyle products soon

 

[PAToyota]

Depending on who you talk to, you’ll hear the terms “crown,” “cap,” “wash,” or “splay” - and probably others as well. That’s part of the reason that construction documents have drawings as well as specs - to make sure everyone is talking about the same thing. I regularly encounter people confused over the terminology and thinking completely different things from just what was said.

The furnace issue should be pretty easily apparent. Looking at the furnace itself should determine whether the exhaust is going into the chimney or is vented otherwise. I’d be a bit suspect of a contractor who wasn’t able to determine that.

Hard to say on the tuckpointing and brick replacement without seeing the whole chimney. That seems a bit high if that is the extent of the repairs in that one photo, but there may be other areas.

I see about four courses at the top of the chimney that are cracked and then the crown as well. All of that would have to be taken down and repaired to correct whatever issue caused it to start to fail. You’re not going to be able to just shove some mortar into those cracks and call it good - it will continue to fail. As such, by the time you take the crown off it would be better to replace it.

Again, hard to say on the firebox without seeing the condition. The other thing is that photos will show the obvious stuff, but that isn’t the same as being there and being able to poke and prod things. Does it look ok but the mortar or brick is soft? Does something sound hollow? You’re not going to get that from photos.

Finally, on the foundation, the typical “home inspector” has no engineering background. Just looking at their disclaimers for their work you quickly realize that their report is only about as valuable as the paper it is written on. Similarly, a GC isn’t an engineer, but should have enough experience to know the difference between structural and cosmetic issues. Again, without any further details it is impossible to tell the extent of the problem.

 

[tipsy]

Is there something wrong with the furnace chimney? Why remove it? If it ain't broke don't fix it.

 

[NY_treeguy]

Just for a reference, My quote for chimney repairs is as follows:

Repoint chimney above roofline, remove and replace cement cap, replace missing mortar between firebox and brickwork.

Chimney is 2 flue, 6'x1'x4' above ridge.

Quote was for 2k. This is in the highest priced market in the USA.

 

[lordy123]

The furnace issue should be pretty easily apparent. Looking at the furnace itself should determine whether the exhaust is going into the chimney or is vented otherwise. I’d be a bit suspect of a contractor who wasn’t able to determine that.

He knows it currently vents through that chimney, but said we can "just vent it out of the basement". Unless there's something I'm not understanding, I think he thinks we have an H-E furnace(We don't). When asked him how he would vent the furnace he didn't know.

Thanks for all the other advice, I'm going to see if I can get someone I trust out here for an in person inspection.

Is there something wrong with the furnace chimney? Why remove it? If it ain't broke don't fix it.

The mortar is soft, I can pick parts of it away w/ my hand.

 

[marctheprop]

Hi-Retired brick layer here. If the head of the chimney is weak/rough/coming apart-tear it down to where it is solid and rebuild. What happens(most of the time)is that water gets in through cracks and freezes etc. So rebuild the head and do your best to seal the top. The prices would be a little strong around here (tidewater Virginia) but sometimes when you start tearing stuff apart you find surprises-the person who quoted the job may have been covering himself. Don't be afraid to do the work yourself if you're handy-bricklaying is just putting one on top of two. If this was new work-I'd say hire someone experienced but as you will be tearing it apart you should have a pretty good idea on putting it back together. Last bit of advice would be to contact someone who pours liners in old chimneys. Most of those contractors have cameras that they can put down the chimney for inspection purposes. Then you know what's going on-no more guesswork

 

[PAToyota]

He knows it currently vents through that chimney, but said we can "just vent it out of the basement". Unless there's something I'm not understanding, I think he thinks we have an H-E furnace(We don't). When asked him how he would vent the furnace he didn't know.

You can’t vent a HE furnace through a chimney and you can’t vent a non-HE furnace through the wall.

Basically the difference is the temperature of the exhaust. The exhaust for a HE furnace is cool enough that it won’t rise up a chimney. Initially they had tried using a smaller flue put down the chimney, but still had issues. So they went to the wall vents. Although you can vent a non-HE furnace through the wall, it has to be an insulated flue and there are regulations about where you can “release” the exhaust - i.e: you don’t want it being sucked back in windows or such.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

I see several cracked, chipped, broken bricks in those pictures and I would assume the rest of the chimneys is in similar condition. Just not really noticeable from the ground.
With close inspection you will see more. I also expect that some places that look "good" now, won't as the work is being done.
Any chance the water heater uses (or may in the future use) the furnace chimney? I can't think of any real advantage to knocking it down.
The prices seem high but may be in-line with professional masons. I have no idea. I do my own and can attest to it being a bit tedious, physically demanding and often more involved than originally anticipated. I once started doing some tuck pointing which led to replacing a few bricks ..... I ended up replacing an entire porch (except for the footing).

 

[justin1795]

you need to decide if you need the chimney and if you want a fireplace. i had a fireplace at my old house and used the **** out of it for 2 years. even tho i have years of split wood stacked up i quit using it. to much work. one insurance company threw a fit about it and threatened to cancell me unless i provided proof of cleaning. i would take it down to the roof line and get a insert if you can.

 

[Milton Shaw]

My roofer charged me $100 to remove my chimney when he did my roof. Removed it to about a foot under the roof line, put in rafter pieces and pieced the roof deck and shingled it. That price you are being quoted is about half of what I paid for the entire roof to be replaced, about 15 squares.