yes Tata conglomerate is huge aside from IT consultant TCS, they even bough out parts of the defunct Korea's Dawoo heavy industries , I think it was the heavy equipment or something... well also Jaguar something recent .
china tools
- Thread starter brownbagg
- Start date
The history between the U.S. and China is very interesting and goes far back. The opium wars, Vietnam, Korea, the Cold War. . . As far as manufacturing, 1971 was the pivotal year.
Far too political for any detailed discussion here.
yes. They were a closed country after their civil war. But just responding to your initial comment that the US setup factories etc, it wasn’t exactly good will move. It wasn’t supposed to be moving any high tech productions over.
heh heh, yeah, well things evolve. . .
I have a saying on this subject: the U.S. threw their workers under the bus in the '70s, and backed it over them in the '90s
This turned out to be optimistic.
nadogail
Well-known member
A previous employer bought an Electroplating system from China, a crew from the manufacturer came to San Diego to erect and assemble the production line.
I was impressed by the way they went about their work and how well the equipment did it's job.
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I have a bit of experience manufacturing in India and China, and in my opinion, the issue is that the workers typically have never owned anything of any quality. They'll assemble something that has an eight-hole bolt pattern and use three lock-washers and five flat-washers. You point at it, they look, and they don't have any idea what you're talking about.
Most anyone you hire in the US can see when a 90-degree brake is out 1 or at most 2 degrees. Not so in a lot of countries. Five degrees out, you point at it, and they shrug.
When we started in Thailand. the guys were working on the floor, (sheet metal fabricating) so one of the first things we did was build a bunch of 4' X 8' welding and assembly tables. Got the tables all finished and installed, and after a week they were squatting on the top of the tables, still effectively working on the floor, just now having to climb up.
Most anyone you hire in the US can see when a 90-degree brake is out 1 or at most 2 degrees. Not so in a lot of countries. Five degrees out, you point at it, and they shrug.
When we started in Thailand. the guys were working on the floor, (sheet metal fabricating) so one of the first things we did was build a bunch of 4' X 8' welding and assembly tables. Got the tables all finished and installed, and after a week they were squatting on the top of the tables, still effectively working on the floor, just now having to climb up.
Something else was happening during the 1990s... Aside from Eastman kodak and DEC or Carrier corp or Y2k. but definitely something else that says hey there is a quick way to get rid of old technology and old people's pension. ....oh right the fad and trend of "outsourcing". Quick profit. Was it... oh right, some one got sold of "innovation" instead of factory work that no one wanted due to IT boom? na, it was something else.
seber
Well-known member
Spyderco sells some very well made knives made in China. But I'm relatively sure the steel comes from Japan.
well we've never had phones made in italy ,germany ,austria etc. but it would be interesting to see how they stack up to the chinese stuff
LWB
Well-known member
Have been using china tools at work for most of my life and can't complain. Most of the hands tools were just fine and something you could cut in half to make a "specialty tool" Some are junk and you stay away from them.
However, when it came to my own I wanted something I could be proud of and admire so have a mix of tools from different eras and places. Still nothing expensive and the higher priced items were used. But, I can open a drawer and say "These open ends are Canadian made in the 90's" "These Channels locks are all US made:" "These are Japanese made" That makes me happy instead of a generic set of tools from our local Canadian Tire.
However, when it came to my own I wanted something I could be proud of and admire so have a mix of tools from different eras and places. Still nothing expensive and the higher priced items were used. But, I can open a drawer and say "These open ends are Canadian made in the 90's" "These Channels locks are all US made:" "These are Japanese made" That makes me happy instead of a generic set of tools from our local Canadian Tire.
LWB
Well-known member
We have Gray tools.
LWB
Well-known member
AND Lee Valley! Can't forget Lee Valley!
jmarkwolf
Well-known member
I bought these Qing Gong dial calipers some 32 years ago at Production Tool. They suggested it to me when I balked at the cost of other calipers.
Can't remember the cost, but it has held up perfectly all these years, very smooth action, has serious heft in your hand, and as you can see the needle is still on zero point zero when closed. Still use it regularly.
I'm normally very skeptical of tools from communist China but this is one purchase I've never regretted.
Can't remember the cost, but it has held up perfectly all these years, very smooth action, has serious heft in your hand, and as you can see the needle is still on zero point zero when closed. Still use it regularly.
I'm normally very skeptical of tools from communist China but this is one purchase I've never regretted.
Attachments
visionguru
Well-known member
It may be too late. They already have the know-how, talent pool, and money. Chip making is an engineering issue, takes time to perfect. It may slow down China in the short term, but may end up creating a competitor, making our tech sector from THE leader to one of the leaders. If they can make Harbor Freight, they sure can make Snap On if they want to.
The perfect example is the International Space Station. We banned China from participating in 2011, when their space agency was only 5 years old. In 10 years, that space agency set up their own space station, landed rover on Mars, Moon. Had we not banning China, China might not have capability to do any of those.
2022 is an eventful year. I thought the world had come together to tackle the issues facing humanity. Well, we are only humans, no fight, no fun.
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Slow down yes, stop no. That is the reality, not that I wanted to go into geo politics.
wccftech.com
Chinese-Built Loongson 3A6000 CPUs Achieve 68% Faster Single-Core Performance, Will Be Able To Rival Zen 3 & Tiger Lake
Chinese chipmaker, Loongson, has stated that its 3A6000 CPUs have achieved up to 68% uplift in single-core performance, rivaling AMD's Zen 3.
wccftech.com
Dunno how to read the is, so you are a tool?
Making tier 1 chips is hardly like making a wrench or a screwdriver.
China was only successful with their space station with much support from the Italian and European space agencies.
Humans are self interested beings, it's in our DNA. People need to come to grips with this fact.
Slow down yes, stop no. That is the reality, not that I wanted to go into geo politics.
Chinese-Built Loongson 3A6000 CPUs Achieve 68% Faster Single-Core Performance, Will Be Able To Rival Zen 3 & Tiger Lake
Chinese chipmaker, Loongson, has stated that its 3A6000 CPUs have achieved up to 68% uplift in single-core performance, rivaling AMD's Zen 3.
So it's either a grave threat to China's tech advancement or no big deal. Time will tell.
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In the past couple years, China has suffered their own “chip shortage” as well certain ICs so they realize they have to take care of their own as well.
The notion that they can’t figure out how to make the same chips as everybody else just seems ridiculous.
The notion that they can’t figure out how to make the same chips as everybody else just seems ridiculous.
All 5ft 11 inches. Small hands make it look bigger.
I really dunno how to decode this one either, you really don’t want me to interpret this one.
Yes they are scrambling to develop the software need, and buying the hardware from neutral countries which means it will just slow down but not stop the development. It’s the same as USA is trying to build back the infrastructure by giving “incentives” to chip makers. But still left out who is going to assemble your tier 1 chips ?
neophyte
Well-known member
Nokia didn’t manufacture sll their phones in China.
neophyte
Well-known member
Gray tools for traditional wrenches etc.
Oneway manufacturing for wood lathes etc. (may be one of the finest wood lathes currently made)
Lee Valley/Veritas for woodworking hand tools. (One of the finest lineups for cost and quality)
Formerly General Tools were made in Canada, and included everything from small machinist tools to large industrial tools like lathes and tablesaws.( now the Canadian manufacture of this seems to be dead)
I forget what else, but Canada used to have a lot of industrial manufacturing and may still.
I did not know General was Canadian. They had a lot of decent quality stuff for fair prices.
The Bean
Well-known member
OP asks if China makes any good tools.
Sure, they make some good tools; but, do they make great tools, better tools, reliable tools, tools you'd hand down?
Sure, they make some good tools; but, do they make great tools, better tools, reliable tools, tools you'd hand down?
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Nope. No great tool has ever come out of China.
Not sure what your comment is trying to accomplish...
The Bean
Well-known member
Stating the obvious by way of question, leaving room for opposite opinion...
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Nevermind. Not arguing this
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The Bean
Well-known member
If you were Chinese (or in China), you probably would.
Civivi is a chinese manufacturer and they make wonderful knives for a budget. I think their parent company is also chinese and makes top end knives (for high prices).
Chinese flashlights are generally the best on the market too. I have a Wurkkos, I don't think anything else comes remotely close for those ~20$...
now it’s guilt time.I mostly buy and have had had some Harbor Freight Tools for decades that serve me just fine eachsnd every time I use them.
When I die I’m giving my sons options to go through my stuff and take what they want. If They turn up their nose at it and throw it in the dumpster because it’s not “quality tools” well then I failed to raise them properly.
I mostly buy and have had had some Harbor Freight Tools for decades that serve me just fine eachsnd every time I use them.
When I die I’m giving my sons options to go through my stuff and take what they want. If They turn up their nose at it and throw it in the dumpster because it’s not “quality tools” well then I failed to raise them properly.
Ask them if they'd rather have the Harbor Freight stuff and $20K in an index fund or Snap-On stuff...
Fortunately I already know the answer.
My grandfather was a master carpenter and accomplished woodworker, but most of his tools were “whatever”. The legacy and memories are what he had created.
I am not sure what tools you wanted to hand down to your kids assuming the old mentality of hand tools are inheritances instead of something that actually worth its weight in gold. Money save in investments are better choice that was mentioned in earlier post. I personally don’t like Milwaukee since the 1990s but if you have to be technical about that. They are a really a German / Singapore / Chinese company. But the Milwaukee tool is out of China.
This kind of arguments have surface many times here. There is no real answer, personally, I buy a tool to get a job done as in tools that save you money or buy a tool that will get the job done continuously in a professional use environment, as in tools that makes you money. I am proud of the job I have done, not proud of the tool that I owned. Never cross my mind that I am buying a tool to hand down as inheritance. You are the first, probably not the last to think that. But this is like buying an American car back in 1985 and expect it to be inherited and retain value.
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I am not sure the logic ?
milkovich
Well-known member
Some of my favorite tools come from Taiwan, but I've had some mainland tools and the quality is low but improving. In my uneducated opinion, mainland factories never get the alloy and heat treat perfect on tools either from skimping or inexperience so their steel is either too brittle or too soft, but they get better every year. This includes tools that come from SBD, TTI, Apex, etc. It is like trying to play whack-a-mole finding quality manufacturers and keeping them consistent. With Taiwan, some of those firms are 50+ years old and have been making 1 or 2 quality product lines for decades. With China, many of these firms are 10-15 years old and have beautiful state of the art factories, but once you ship the product to the US, it's almost the same price as making it here (and you have very little say in the QC). I believe they have export subsidies (like South Korea used to do) and they HAVE to export for the kickback which might be why they pump out so many low quality goods in addition to the higher quality products they're capable of making for importers like WEN, Rikon, Jet, Grizzly, etc.