Chinese Made Craftsman Professional Wrenches

[breakfasteatre]

I have a big sears up here north of toronto, with a pretty big tool department.

Recently, they have gotten rid of all of their professional hand tools and everything is just regular craftsman.

Although everything in Canada is made in china, the quality has definitely taken a bit of a dive when they got rid of the professional stuff.

I really have no interest in going over there for tools unless their boxes go on sale considerably

 

[demonspeed]

I find it odd that they call it the "professional" series. I'm a professional-there are no chinese wrenches, sockets, or ratchets in my box.

And If I was going to buy chinese quality tools (I try not to but we all do it occasionally) I would just go to harbor freight where its cheap at least. Craftsman's niche market was afordable american tools. Why would they change to expensive chinese tools?

I used to think of craftsman as a pretty respectable quality tool brand but I don't think I'll be buying anything there anytime soon. Seems like nowadays you have to basically buy snap-on if you want an american tool and even then you better double check the "made in ...." stamp.

 

[Cameronl]

And If I was going to buy chinese quality tools (I try not to but we all do it occasionally) I would just go to harbor freight where its cheap at least. Craftsman's niche market was afordable american tools. Why would they change to expensive chinese tools?

Quoted for truthiness.

Sears has an almost exclusive niche.
I'm not going to pay a premium for the Craftsman name.

 

[kythri]

I'm a professional-there are no chinese wrenches, sockets, or ratchets in my box.

As if these are mutually exclusive.

 

[Countingman]

Thanks to this forum, I was alerted to the fact that the Professional "flare" wrenches were now Chinese made. Sad news. Yesterday, I went straight to our local Sears in search of a set of American-made metric ones. No luck. They had a few S.A.E. sets (in the back of the stack) all the metric and most of the S.A.E. were Chinese made. And no, they DID NOT lower the price.

I picked up a good used set on Ebay yesterday evening.

When I pay U.S. prices for items made in Chinese sweatshops, I feel ripped-off.

I never would have thought the so-called "professional" line of Craftsman tools would carry the "made in China" label.

Has anyone else noticed how Craftsman prints the Chinese C.O.O. in small letters, usually on the back of the package?

As if Craftsman has something to be ashamed of.---- They do.

As for China, it's because of their unfair trade practices (and our own Government's failure to insist on fair trade with them) that China has now overtaken Japan to become the world's second-largest economy.

Meanwhile, China's authoritarion government will always make sure that they sell more to the rest of the world (Especially the U.S.) than they buy and thereby guarantee their future growth, to our detriment. A few decades from now, we'll be number 2.

 

[sko]

Chinese made tools and ethical dilemmas,

in this thread i have seen all the reasons that this is an unpopular move; patriotism, humanitarianism, xenophobia, economics, and anything else that may have come up.

i noticed the issue of quality mentioned many times, but i think it is more a matter of perceived quality, as i don't believe the quality of the tool will change by changing its COO. there are at least a few tool makes that still make premium tools with outsourced manufacturing. the reason that Chinese made is associated with cheep **** is that its imposable to make cheep **** stateside. take a look at the next pair of basketball shoes you see, guess where they are made? that's right, a country without labor laws or pollution control. the absence of these laws provides an environment for cheep manufacturing (but you didn't need me to tell you that.)

COO is not something i look at in terms of USA vs. everybody else, as i imagine a lot of people do. i don't have a problem with buying foreign made goods. i don't believe that someone is better at making wrenches simply because he fills out the same tax forms that i do. however i try to make sure that money i spend does not encourage the abuse of air, water, and fellow man. buying American made tools supports the national economy but even some domestic stuff is ****, and on the other end some of it is sold at a price i cannot justify. i find myself looking at a lot of Japanese sockets and German screwdrivers for exactly this reason. i would like to think that there are quality products that come from china (and other places like it) made by masters of their craft in a clean factory, but that just isn't the case.

going into Sears and getting the USA made ones while you still can isn't something i can agree with in this case. at the end of the year when they look at tool sales they wont see that the US made tools sold until they were gone and the China made tools did not, they will just see the total numbers. it is not the consumers fault that things like this happen, but it is the consumers responsibility to be educated on the things they purchase and act accordingly.

i remember when i was a kid i would see the commercials on the tele for Craftsman tools at Sears, and they would always remind you of two things, that Craftsman tools were made in America, and that they had lifetime warranty. the corporate big wigs have already decided that one of these things was not important, i wonder how long it will be before they decide that the other is not either.

 

[Cummins_Powered]

I completely agree with you countingman, paying the same price for something i know they made at a enormous discount in china makes me feel ripped off. At least the high price for the pro stuff was in support of US manufacturing.


Good point sko, i never thought about sears corporate just looking at the numbers and seeing an "increase" in sales after the switch when in reality people just bought all the old USA stuff.


I feel like this is a huge **** up on sears' part. They should have just raised their prices a little bit over the years instead of this **** (someone earlier pointed out the same 100 piece set cost them the same amount 10 years ago, thats good for us, but horrible for business)

 

[rayzor32]

At least 1 person is trying to make a change I got to get over to this store:

https://www.saveourcountryfirst.com/AboutUs.aspx

 

[bchee]

Any updates? It's been a few weeks...
Sears must be gauging the response. I go back to my local Sears and not much has changed.
It's not like suddenly all the tools have been replaced.

 

[Cummins_Powered]

Any updates? It's been a few weeks...
Sears must be gauging the response. I go back to my local Sears and not much has changed.
It's not like suddenly all the tools have been replaced.

when this thread started i ran to sears to buy a set. They only had USA made stuff. A week or so later i was back and they now had both sets, USA and china.

My area is not a big tool area i dont think for sears. Santa Barbara CA. I am right now up in Sacramento, CA and i think this is a much larger market. Im going to check out sears tomorrow and see if its any different...

 

[bchee]

What's strange to me, IIRC, is that the metric set might be China, while the standard set is still US. Not certain though

 

[Ben Iv]

my local sears the only ones made in the usa are metric the sae sets are china, they had singles in usa almost bought em but woulda been 150 that way.

 

[Cummins_Powered]

Now that i think about it you guys are right. The chinese i saw were indeed metric and the SAE were USA. weird....

Oh and there was NO open stock chinese wrenches. the metrics were still USA.

Take a close look at the metrics, they look awful. the open ends have twice the material on them compared to the US version.

 

[Stuey]

Didn't see these yet, only Chinese-made flare crowfoots and flare wrenches, and ratcheting wrenches. Checked two local stores. Guess they need to sell out of their inventory of USA-made combo wrench sets before they can put out the new stock.

 

[Joe From NY]

...



Yes, but what was the average salary of a factory worker back then, compared with today? I don't know for sure, but I do know that factory workers are paid much better today than in the past.

No way... Our real adjusted wages have been declining since their peak in 1973.

http://www.workinglife.org/wiki/Wages+and+Benefits:+Real+Wages+(1964-2004)

http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2008/06/chart-of-day-real-hourly-earnings.html

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa5423/is_199904/ai_n21441257/?tag=content;col1

"And yet in China, their real adjusted wages are increasing: see here

Except for 2009, real wages for manufacturing workers have been rising by 5% to 10% every year since 2003, according to a recent note by Standard Chartered economists. Standard Chartered found that wage increases of about 8% to 12% were standard in the February-March period this year, when wage increases are typically reset to coincide with the Lunar New Year holiday"

 

[kythri]

No way. Our real adjusted wages have been declining since their peak in 1973.

http://www.workinglife.org/wiki/Wages+and+Benefits:+Real+Wages+(1964-2004)

http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2008/06/chart-of-day-real-hourly-earnings.html

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa5423/is_199904/ai_n21441257/?tag=content;col1

That's averaged across all jobs in all industries (including explosive growth in low-income industries). You're factoring the plethora of Starbucks, McDonald's, retail employees et. al. (a much higher number today, than in 1973) in with all of the factory production workers (a much LOWER number today, than in 1973).

It's not a useful chart for the particular debate and intellectually dishonest when used to dispute the statement that was made.

Got a chart that shows the real adjusted wages amongst factory production workers, from 1973 until now?

 

[boybacon]

Chinese made tools and ethical dilemmas,

in this thread i have seen all the reasons that this is an unpopular move; patriotism, humanitarianism, xenophobia, economics, and anything else that may have come up.

i noticed the issue of quality mentioned many times, but i think it is more a matter of perceived quality, as i don't believe the quality of the tool will change by changing its COO. there are at least a few tool makes that still make premium tools with outsourced manufacturing. the reason that Chinese made is associated with cheep **** is that its imposable to make cheep **** stateside. take a look at the next pair of basketball shoes you see, guess where they are made? that's right, a country without labor laws or pollution control. the absence of these laws provides an environment for cheep manufacturing (but you didn't need me to tell you that.)
[/QUOTE/]

Anyone who works for a company that has outsourced product to Asia can attest to a few facts. Usually the first few shipments of a product are top notch in quality. After that, quality becomes spotty and sometimes non existent. Unless you have engineers and quality assurance & quality control on the ground at the place of manufacture, you cannot control the product.

Asian businesses have something called "triangle" business. What does that mean? Well, let's say you contract with company "A" to manufacture for you. Company "A" may outsource some or all of the steps to company "B". Company "B" does not have a contract with you, and may or may not meet your specific quality requirements.

In my experience, you don't have one or two quality failures in Asian made product, because they are produced in such large batches. So, let's say at some point your manufacturer in Asia sources steel from a different company who provides a substandard quality of steel. 6 months later when that product hits the shelves and people start buying it, it starts failing. In large numbers. I've even seen where a US company has gone back to the Asian supplier to complain about a quality issue and heard "Yes, we knew about that. Please provide the quantities that have failed and we will negotiate the refund." No worries about the impact to the brand name in the US, no worries about the impact to future sales, because they know that the manufacturing will NEVER go back to the US.

 

[Joe From NY]

That's averaged across all jobs in all industries (including explosive growth in low-income industries). You're factoring the plethora of Starbucks, McDonald's, retail employees et. al. (a much higher number today, than in 1973) in with all of the factory production workers (a much LOWER number today, than in 1973).

It's not a useful chart for the particular debate and intellectually dishonest when used to dispute the statement that was made.

Got a chart that shows the real adjusted wages amongst factory production workers, from 1973 until now?

no chart, but if you don't get too distracted by reading, note these quotes here:

Over the past two decades, young male earnings have declined within virtually every major industry, including goods-producing industries, so that even those employed in manufacturing are earning less in real terms than their 1973 counterparts.

Between 1973 and 1993, the mean real annual earnings of employed young men fell by 22 percent. Earnings declines varied considerably by sector, ranging from lows of 2 percent in personal and entertainment services and 6 percent in professional services to highs of 23 percent in manufacturing, wholesale trade, ...

But while labor productivity was declining in the retail sector, it actually rose strongly in most manufacturing industries. Yet young men's real earnings in manufacturing industries also declined considerably—by 23 percent—over this period. Clearly there is no longer a guarantee that the benefits of increased labor productivity in manufacturing will be passed on to young manufacturing workers, a disconcerting development considering that a strong, direct relationship between rising productivity and rising young workers' earnings prevailed between the 1940s and the early 1970s.

 

[Fedwrench]

Any updates? It's been a few weeks...
Sears must be gauging the response. I go back to my local Sears and not much has changed.
It's not like suddenly all the tools have been replaced.

I don't think Sears is gauging anything. It's a matter of supply and demand. It will take months if not longer to see a change. Unlike previous times when Craftsman polished wrenches changed manufacturers, Sears did not change the set part numbers this time. I don't think the open stock polished wrenches or the sets are big movers unless there's a 30% off or greater sale. The last time Sears switched from the SK supplied wrenches to the current Danaher made sets, the old SK made versions were clearanced out at half price along with whoever made those funky full polished raised panel sets that were sold for about a year. With the slow economy it will take longer to fully transition to the new Chinese made wrenches.
Whoever makes the new Chinese polished wrenches must also make the black spline wrenches as both wrenches have fat (the area between the beam on the base of the open end) open ends.
Like it or not most tool companies are marching down the trail to a largely Asian made line of tools. If we're lucky some of them might even be decent like Gearwrench.

 

[kythri]

no chart, but if you don't get too distracted by reading, note these quotes here:

Over the past two decades, young male earnings have declined within virtually every major industry, including goods-producing industries, so that even those employed in manufacturing are earning less in real terms than their 1973 counterparts.

Between 1973 and 1993, the mean real annual earnings of employed young men fell by 22 percent. Earnings declines varied considerably by sector, ranging from lows of 2 percent in personal and entertainment services and 6 percent in professional services to highs of 23 percent in manufacturing, wholesale trade, ...

But while labor productivity was declining in the retail sector, it actually rose strongly in most manufacturing industries. Yet young men's real earnings in manufacturing industries also declined considerably—by 23 percent—over this period. Clearly there is no longer a guarantee that the benefits of increased labor productivity in manufacturing will be passed on to young manufacturing workers, a disconcerting development considering that a strong, direct relationship between rising productivity and rising young workers' earnings prevailed between the 1940s and the early 1970s.

Veiled insult aside, thank you.

Now, I'd be curious for more information on a couple of those points - it notes that wages fell in manufacturing, but productivity increased.

How much of that is due to automation? Should a manufacturing employee of 1993, responsible for monitoring an automated machine, be paid the equivalent of his/her 1973 counterpart that had to manually operate those machines?

I'm not at all surprised to see productivity increases in manufacturing over a period of time due to that automation.

Someone recently posted a video of Snap-On wrenches being made - it didn't appear to require a large amount of skilled labor - basically, someone feeding blanks into a machine at several points, or hanging various stages on a hook. A very highly automated process.

Was it this automated 30 years ago, or were the workers on the wrench line more heavily involved in the manufacturing process?

On the surface, making certain assumptions as I've postulated above, it doesn't seem unreasonable that less work is compensated appropriately.

 

[emeraldcoupe]

i bought a set of the pro's in sae last week. all the wrenches are stamped USA. on the back of the package it says wrenches made in USA packaging made in china

 

[Fedwrench]

While in Sears today on a quest to see the new 1/4 drive flex head ratchet (checked three stores with negative results), I noticed that one store had the new version of the long flat panel full polish ratcheting wrench sets now made in China. I got two sets of the US made versions a year or so ago when they phased them out at the stores at half price. Great wrenches. The new imported version have the fat open end too.

 

[Indy_500]

at the sears in the mall of america, they still have the USA sets. And Every sears i've been to has singular USA pro wrenches

 

[Joe From NY]

Veiled insult aside, thank you.

Now, I'd be curious for more information on a couple of those points - it notes that wages fell in manufacturing, but productivity increased.

How much of that is due to automation? Should a manufacturing employee of 1993, responsible for monitoring an automated machine, be paid the equivalent of his/her 1973 counterpart that had to manually operate those machines?

I'm not at all surprised to see productivity increases in manufacturing over a period of time due to that automation.

Someone recently posted a video of Snap-On wrenches being made - it didn't appear to require a large amount of skilled labor - basically, someone feeding blanks into a machine at several points, or hanging various stages on a hook. A very highly automated process.

Was it this automated 30 years ago, or were the workers on the wrench line more heavily involved in the manufacturing process?

On the surface, making certain assumptions as I've postulated above, it doesn't seem unreasonable that less work is compensated appropriately.

i do see your point, i didn't consider that aspect of the situation.

 

[tonydanzah]

lets face it. The US had a great quality of living. Big business of the world figured instead of bringing everyone up to our level it would be easier to bring us down to a 3rd world level.

 

[thetreshon]

There are several direct-from-China distributors out there that dropship products. People flock to them. Take a look at the many deal sites and forums out there. 99 cent tweezers? Everyone HAS to have them. $2 all-in-one screwdriver kit? Thousands buy 'em up. 10 flashlights for $4? Everyone figures this is something they MUST HAVE. So what if 2/5 products fails or is broken upon arrival? Who needs to solve manufacturing problems when you can replace the products for pennies.

The majority of people want to spend as little as possible on many types of goods these days.




Above was perfectly said! I've been trying to tell people the same thing for years! People think only about themselves and their own wallet. They don't care at all about supporting workers that make quality products. We're a throw away society. Out of sight, out of mind. Products and jobs. We all feel like we HAVE to have EVERYTHING. I cause problems in my family and friend relationships when I bring up the subject. People very close to me don't give a ****, and I call them out on it - and that's exactly why other people close to me have lost jobs - because the average joe doesn't give a **** about what they buy.

 

[dieselmike]

Down with Chinese tools . Soon the battle
Will be Indian garbage... U just wait

 

[BackTracker]

Down with Chinese tools . Soon the battle
Will be Indian garbage... U just wait

India is a democracy.

A democracy built on the premise of peace where their national hero shed no blood in a revolution against the British.India who is an actual American ally. Personally I support Indian labor over Chinese.

I wouldn't be happy about marching my *** down to sears today to discover India on the backside of the wrenches I drove an hour and a half to purchase. But I was ******** nauseated when I saw China.

Looks like snap on is the last bastion of American tool manufacturing.

 

[slipjointed]

Looks like snap on is the last bastion of American tool manufacturing.

Actually, that would be Wright. 100% USA. Evidently Snap-on corporate feels that having USA stamped on their tools is bad for business.

Made in the USA from American steel, and packaged in USA made tool rolls made from American denim.

Not to mention which, I would pit ANY Wright tool up against any Snap-on tool in a strength test. Wrench, ratchet, socket, screwdriver... any of them.

 

[greybeard]

It pisses me off just as much as the next guy to see our American jobs and products being shipped over seas. Just yesterday I was looking through my tools and found an old Craftsman saber saw. Made in the USA. Another Skil circular saw, Proudly made in the USA. But, my new B&D saber saw along with all my other newer power tools, Made in China. What is wrong with our economy? We don't make anything in the USA anymore, it is all imported. You can't blame a company for wanting to improve their bottom line. The one with the best profit margins will pay the most dividends and will attract the most investors which intern will give them the leverage to buy out other smaller companies etc. etc. In this economy you either out source or you go out of business. By the way, Sears doesn't own K-Mart, it's the other way around. On November 17th 2004 K-mart purchased Sears. Even though the resulting company name is "Sears holding company" it was K-mart that did the purchasing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sears

 

[cdncowboy]

lets face it. The US had a great quality of living. Big business of the world figured instead of bringing everyone up to our level it would be easier to bring us down to a 3rd world level.

This is EXACTLY what is happening... a race to the bottom, hence all of the austerity measures currently seen in Europe. The US and Canada are next.

 

[scott4]

I've been pretty happy to see like minded people here.
I've had a serious issue regarding "USA made" and people I know. I've helped install well made Chinese parts that fit, then, when making a USA stand, found the USA part didn't fit quite right. The people who bought the Chinese stuff were there and saw that.

It was worse trying to get it to fit, since home mechanic and automotive machining seems to be an anachronism. It was almost impossible to fins someone to get the part to fit.

I have a few examples like this, where I've made a stretch to keep it made in the USA. But its nice to see other people mad about this.

 

[VWandDodge]

Down with Chinese tools . Soon the battle
Will be Indian garbage... U just wait

I have a couple of Pittsburgh wrench sets (metric and SAE) I bought around 1992 that were made in India. They are far superior than the Chinese Pittsburgh garbage I unwittingly purchased for my son in 2008 and are just as good, if not better than Craftsman of the same vintage.

 

[4x4gearhead]

I say f u Danaher.

 

[cdncowboy]

In Canada, our version of Harbor Freight is Princess Auto, some of their wrench sets are Deeps brand which are straight out of India. Haven't looked at them up close to cast any judgement, but my expectations are low.

 

[cdncowboy]

Some better give Toby Keith a heads up; his new song Made in America gives Craftsman wrenches a call out for them being made in the USA. Apparently he missed the Craftsman cost cutting and outsourcing to China memo.

 

[VWandDodge]

Some better give Toby Keith a heads up; his new song Made in America gives Craftsman wrenches a call out for them being made in the USA. Apparently he missed the Craftsman cost cutting and outsourcing to China memo.

He lives about 8 miles from me and is nothing more than another flag waving, loud-mouth redneck.

 

[Vinny]

Are the Craftsman Pro wrenches those ones that have the... I guess its black oxide finish, closed end with a bunch of points, and seem to be thicker? Because I was looking at those this weekend and they looked pretty cool. I already have a set of wrenches and don't need another (I know, I speak blasphemy), but I would love a set if I ever lose mine.

 

[cdncowboy]

Are the Craftsman Pro wrenches those ones that have the... I guess its black oxide finish, closed end with a bunch of points, and seem to be thicker? Because I was looking at those this weekend and they looked pretty cool. I already have a set of wrenches and don't need another (I know, I speak blasphemy), but I would love a set if I ever lose mine.

No, those are the newer "universal" wrenches.

 

[wadd1]

Up in Canada we have been fed this chinese danaher for years
even when they have 70 percent off sales their still making money

my road box is full of these tools