Chinese tools and durability

[Fialaja]

In trolling eBay I sometimes look for power tools to tinker with, usually under the category of for parts, not working.

I have noticed that the bulk of the listings are tools made in China, especially Ridgid, and newer Milwaukee stuff.

I rarely see made in USA stuff, like the older Milwaukee, Porter cable, and craftsman/Black and Decker Industrial, despite it obviously being older and in service longer.

So amI to think that China Milwaukee is as good a quality as the old USA made stuff? Or that Chinese Ridgid is even a fraction as durable as the Metabosourced drills I currently own that are made in Germany?

Did these manufacturers do away with auto stop brushes, gear protecting clutches and other devices that might save a tool or extend its working life?

 

[Professional Tool User]

China is capable of making decent tools. It's just that too much junk comes out of China and it makes those in China who are trying to make a decent product look bad. Combined with outsourcers and their tendency to choose the lowest bidder, this is where quality becomes a problem. Labour in China isn't as cheap as it used to be. All those power tools and other electronics are Made in China because that is where the electronics supply chain is. If Milwaukee wasn't confident about its current line up of power tools, it wouldn't be backing it up with a 5 year warranty. I'd be far more worried about the batteries going bad than the tool breaking. I don't know about Metabo, but festool has a reputation for being over engineered garbage.

 

[DFB]

Most of the current cordless type tools have built in circuitry that senses tool temperature (heat) both tool and battery and torque overload generally shutting down the tool momentarily and usually requires a trigger reset to start up again. Chargers also sense temperature not just heat but cold and won't throw voltage if sensing ambient temperature is off.

Generally I would say tools are built smarter today. Now whether that equates to "better" may be relative to the operators personal response when using said tool.

Some do not like when a tool shuts down under high load demand when wanting to work a tool to it's perceived maximum performance levels. New releases often take in job feedback from commercial/professional usage and higher performing tool releases are often the result...for example the basic cordless sawzall or RA angle hole hawg drill from Milwaukee Tools in particular. Not just onlywas a brushless motor FUEL designation good enough even though a full step above an older style brushed motor tool, but thru usage and feed back there is now increased performance with second step tool releases such a Super Sawzall and Super Hawg RA drill. Same goes for something like the M18 circular saw been surpassed twice with improved releases in only a few short years.

Really never hear too much about "NEW" corded power tools especially here on the GJ.

Most of those offerings still seem to be the same consistent venerable market designs many of those certainly lasting for years.

If anything IMO certain cost cutting production measures maybe cheapen the tools to some extent

 

[theoldwizard1]

China is capable of making decent tools.

• To make a quality product, requires quality raw material. Many times that is not readily available or at least not available near the factory doing final assembly. (For years some Chinese capacitors would die young leaving electronics dead, while other would last forever.)
• The company placing their "brand" on the tool needs a good quality control plan. That may include random inspections in the US.
• Besides quality control, you nee quality assurance. There is a difference. Talk to people who do high volume manufacturing.

 

[dogdog]

• To make a quality product, requires quality raw material. Many times that is not readily available or at least not available near the factory doing final assembly. (For years some Chinese capacitors would die young leaving electronics dead, while other would last forever.)
• The company placing their "brand" on the tool needs a good quality control plan. That may include random inspections in the US.
• Besides quality control, you nee quality assurance. There is a difference. Talk to people who do high volume manufacturing.

What he is saying is that if you want to paid for the product at a cost to manufacturing, they can always source you the top notch components to put into the product.. There is no problem with the access to the material most of the cases with few exceptions of rare materials that is controlled, I think keyocera have some ceramic things... ... The QC/QA TQM anything are extra cost, to the product. If you wanted to pay for it...

I don't think you understand the problem with the electrolyte capacitors... that is a separate issue...

 

[DFB]

I worked in US electronic component formation and assembly manufacturing for many years. It was ALL about the customers specification, they could choose the level of quality in any component we either made or installed from outsourcing. When we did MIL SPEC it was a detailed QAR with magnified inspections of higher power than other jobs were required on circuit board joints. Components of any production lot had to pass a higher percentage of life test and shock testing too.

You get what u pay for and THAT'S the bottom line.

Let me tell ya something our gov't certified instructors would teach solder program training classes stressed certain overseas manufacturing facilities far surpassed our quality

 

[nieuport17]

Zf9 transmission is German engineered. That thing is a piece of ****.

Correction made. Zf9 is US made, German engineered.

 

[zendriver]

Like others have stated it's really not about China, it's about the Company that sells the product.

Anyone who has ever worked in an American factory knows they all have(or had) "quality control" and "quality assurance", minding to the specifications, processes and inspection methods, from incoming raw materials, to outgoing finished product.

When they started outsourcing, QC/QA were just other departments to save money, by ****-canning.

Simply order some "grinders" with no oversight and a Chinese manufacturer will do the same thing as any American manufacturer would do - cut as many corners as possible, to make as much money as possible.

That's changed considerably in recent years, especially since some products like Milwaukee and Dewalt etc, are made overseas.

Maybe more broken Asian tools are on eBay because there is more Asian tools.

The world has changed quite a bit in 40 years.

 

[giants]

I worked in US electronic component formation and assembly manufacturing for many years. It was ALL about the customers specification, they could choose the level of quality in any component we either made or installed from outsourcing. When we did MIL SPEC it was a detailed QAR with magnified inspections of higher power than other jobs were required on circuit board joints. Components of any production lot had to pass a higher percentage of life test and shock testing too.

You get what u pay for and THAT'S the bottom line.

Let me tell ya something our gov't certified instructors would teach solder program training classes stressed certain overseas manufacturing facilities far surpassed our quality

What is a QAR?

 

[drokihazan]

People like to talk about how all Chinese metal is trash, but that's when you buy cheap garbage.

Take iPhones for example. Apple has basically cornered the global market on all the highest quality aluminum that exists, and are way out in the cutting edge of aluminum metallurgy. That's my field - they are 100% unsurpassed. They also totally get almost all their aluminum from China, and almost all their products are manufactured there. You can get whatever you want in China, if you're willing to pay for it. Your price determines whether it's cheap ****** steel or steel with materials composition so tightly controlled it belongs on a satellite, China can get you whatever.

The reputation just comes from the fact that if you don't spend the money and effort (like sending your QC team to the factories regularly and making sure it's all within spec) they'll cut corners like any other business trying to turn a profit, except in China it's way easier for them to get away with the corner cutting.

 

[Revere Cycles]

So amI to think that China Milwaukee is as good a quality as the old USA made stuff? Or that Chinese Ridgid is even a fraction as durable as the Metabosourced drills I currently own that are made in Germany?

Did these manufacturers do away with auto stop brushes, gear protecting clutches and other devices that might save a tool or extend its working life?

I am a trade professional who specializes in restoration masonry and general contracting. Most of my heavy power tools that are in daily use are made in Germany or USA. My cordless stuff is all made in China and I have to replace them every few years. From my experience, Chinese made Ridgid is okay, it's made by TTI who also makes Milwaukee's line, but the warranty process is utter garbage and no local places in my area service the tools. If I break a Ridgid tool tomorrow, it means I have to send it back to them for service, which could take 2-3 weeks for a replacement. A broken tool costs me on the job, and I have definitely bought new tools to finish a job in lieu of waiting for a replacement.

I predominantly have Bosch, Metabo, DeWalt and Milwaukee corded tools. If a Bosch tool breaks, my local dealer will repair it within 1-2 days depending on how busy they are. Metabo can take a little longer if a part needs to come from Germany. DeWalt is the most generous, if I bring in a broken tool, they often will send me home with a refurbished tool immediately if one is in inventory. Milwaukee is frustrating because their mainline stuff is now off-shored and internal parts are no longer compatible.


Case in point: I had a problem two years ago with a Magnum Holeshooter I got circa 1997 that had an internal short. All the current production Holeshooters are made in China now, and while the exterior looks similar, the internals are not. The dealer said that six months ago, he could still get the part, but they are now NLA. As a long time customer and fan of the brand, that's so frustrating. Still, 20-30 years with my USA made Milwaukee tools is better than six months that I got out of the Ridgid Cordless Brad Nailer that I used on two small jobs before it gave up. I just don't want to replace a USA made Milwaukee tool with a Chinese one that won't last as long. It's not like the Chinese tools are any cheaper than the USA made ones they replaced...

 

[d.mcfarland]

People like to talk about how all Chinese metal is trash, but that's when you buy cheap garbage.

This. I have stuff made in China and am perfectly happy with the quality of the product. I have cheap junk that was made in China and I got exactly what I paid for it.

 

[dogdog]

What is a QAR?

Quality Assurance Review (QAR)

Those Project management / TQM / continuous improvement / PDCA mumble jumbles ... basically boils down to you pay now or you pay more later... and doesn't apply to every situation.. especially to an outsourced manufacture overseas... TQM is YOUR responsibility... not theirs.

 

[kctyphoon]

In trolling eBay I sometimes look for power tools to tinker with, usually under the category of for parts, not working.

I have noticed that the bulk of the listings are tools made in China, especially Ridgid, and newer Milwaukee stuff.

I rarely see made in USA stuff, like the older Milwaukee, Porter cable, and craftsman/Black and Decker Industrial, despite it obviously being older and in service longer.

So amI to think that China Milwaukee is as good a quality as the old USA made stuff? Or that Chinese Ridgid is even a fraction as durable as the Metabosourced drills I currently own that are made in Germany?

Did these manufacturers do away with auto stop brushes, gear protecting clutches and other devices that might save a tool or extend its working life?

No - you are to think that when newer tool companies sell about a billion dollars worth of imported power tools, by shear volume, broken ones will outnumber the number of relics and uncommon imports people are still using. Imagine that..

What you posted is like saying “why dont i find as many $100 bills on the ground, as i do pennies” and my answer would be, empty the pockets of 50 people, and let me know how many pennies vs 100’s you find..

 

[elidas]

Zf9 transmission is German engineered. That thing is a piece of ****.

Correction made. Zf9 is US made, German engineered.

Mopar?

 

[JJ-Az]

There is a YouTuber with the handle of AvE, he has quite a few videos online. He is an engineer (mechanical?) that is very familiar with the manufacturing process and electronics of tools and such.

I've seen quite a few of his videos and for the most part, it appears that tools/items made in Taiwan are better than items made on mainland China.

Take a look at his videos and maybe/hopefully they make sense. He dissects tools and gives you a really good in-depth review.

 

[MarvinBerry]

Like o
That's changed considerably in recent years, especially since some products like Milwaukee and Dewalt etc, are made overseas.

Maybe more broken Asian tools are on eBay because there is more Asian tools.

The world has changed quite a bit in 40 years.

Not only has the world kept spinning but highly probable that a lot of those older USA made tools had already lived a good life & been disposed of eons ago.

Like I saw a thread here a few days ago on o,d Mikita 9.6v stick tools. I owned some of those, in like 1996. Can't even tell ya how long ago I wore em out and tossed em. 20 years??!

I've killed more then a handful of plug in tools in that time too...same as it ever was. Sky is blue water is wet power tools wear out.

 

[Fialaja]

Yeah, I see this argument a little differently now. I do think that there are a lot of lemons coming out from Ridgid based on the number of corded drills and hammer drills broken on e-bay. I failed to see also that fr a lot of the older USA made stuff, ther might not even be parts available for repairs anymore. That might prompt folks to trash a broken tool as well.

I wonder, would there be profitability in a tool junkyard where broken tools could be stripped down and sold for parts? A drill with a bad switch but good armature and body for example?
How many of us have tools that are no longer supported by the manufacturer with parts availability?

 

[zendriver]

Two points I wonder about are the availability of repair parts and the choice of materials effecting perceptions.

Did all old US made power tools always "last forever" or where they just able to be repaired when needed over time, including having the motors rewound at a shop?

Old-school power tools were usually made of aluminum or some magnesium, giving them a more "solid" feel, verses today's plastic, which is not only lighter and less expensive to manufacture, may actually hold up as long, even if it feels "cheap".

I have some "cheap" imported power tools, that have lasted close to 20 years so far.

 

[neophyte]

People like to talk about how all Chinese metal is trash, but that's when you buy cheap garbage.

Take iPhones for example. Apple has basically cornered the global market on all the highest quality aluminum that exists, and are way out in the cutting edge of aluminum metallurgy. That's my field - they are 100% unsurpassed. They also totally get almost all their aluminum from China, and almost all their products are manufactured there. You can get whatever you want in China, if you're willing to pay for it. Your price determines whether it's cheap ****** steel or steel with materials composition so tightly controlled it belongs on a satellite, China can get you whatever.

The reputation just comes from the fact that if you don't spend the money and effort (like sending your QC team to the factories regularly and making sure it's all within spec) they'll cut corners like any other business trying to turn a profit, except in China it's way easier for them to get away with the corner cutting.

According to some threads over on the Pract Mach forum, the manufacturers in China that make decent steel require something like a $250,000 minimum purchase before they’re willing to bother selling you steel, and preferably way larger.
Unless you’re a major manufacturer, you’re pretty much not going to be using that much steel, so the only way to get good steel might be to purchase it elsewhere, or import it into China yourself. Trying to purchase a partial batch of decent steel from an aftermarket source might be possible, but there’s no guarantee secondary won’t try to supply counterfeit steel instead.
Presumably, the same might apply to aluminum as well.

As far as parts go, after Milwaukee moved production to China, some part on older USA made design started having issues with parts that weren’t made to the right dimensions.
It’s probable that some small parts got outsourced, and whoever was actualky making those parts didn’t have the necessary quality control to do so properly.

 

[DFB]

I wonder, would there be profitability in a tool junkyard where broken tools could be stripped down and sold for parts? A drill with a bad switch but good armature and body for example?
How many of us have tools that are no longer supported by the manufacturer with parts availability?

My opinion that's what many of the non running tools like on ebay are really out there for...parts scavenging

 

[Fialaja]

Yes but it’s a small limited pool. Just like a junkyard gives money for a non running car, imagine a tool junkyard that gave $5 for a non working tool. People might be less likely to pitch tools in the trash, increasing parts stream and keeping something recyclable out of the land fills

 

[dogdog]

Yes but it’s a small limited pool. Just like a junkyard gives money for a non running car, imagine a tool junkyard that gave $5 for a non working tool. People might be less likely to pitch tools in the trash, increasing parts stream and keeping something recyclable out of the land fills

The problem is you can't take those availability as statistics... just because your search came up with a lot of certain brand tools on sale in ebay...

Just like JunkYard or any other second hand / used / refurbish market... people tends to spend their efforts to sell what makes $$$ and what is in demand.

 

[freezerburn]

I have a small hammer of the 12-14oz variety and the only thing it says anywhere on it is ‘China’. I friggin love that thing and use it all the time. I’m guessing it prolly about 30 years old

 

[RoninB4]

To echo what others have said, China is capable of producing world class goods as well as **** not worthy of the junk yard.

It's not always a case of getting what you pay for either. I worked a contract for Denso Automotive, a huge global maker of starters/alternators and instrument clusters for the auto makers. Part of my job was sourcing injection molds from anywhere in the world for the molding dept. There was an internal memo concerning China that flatly stated concerns to be aware of. Preliminary and/or first piece inspections would likely pass but the concern was after approval was given for production. Substitution of critical materials, sub-standard methods (surface finish, out of tolerance specs, etc.) and "cutting corners" to boost profits was quite common. The memo urged hiring an inspector to be at the facility to constantly monitor all processes and materials for conformance to what was specified.

I'm not qualified to speak about electronics manufacturing but I've been watching the mechanical end of things since the early 80's. On the domestic side I purposely hunted for a large tap made in the USA. I found one shop in Wisconsin and proudly paid for it after speaking by phone with them. It was poorly made and tore the threads despite increasing the hole diameter and using my best tapping fluid. I ended up ditching the new tap and sharpening an old tap to get the job done. Made in the USA is no guarantee either.

My conclusions? It's a **** shoot when buying something from anywhere. I either buy with the provision of being able to return it or hunt up an owner for a product review before purchase. Hate to say it but most mechanical things made now aren't worth the purchase.

 

[lardy1]

We wanted cheap. We got cheap. Nobody to blame but the consumer. No business will survive by building products that fail to sell.

Time to stop blaming governments and businesses.

 

[seber]

As to Chinese steel. No, it is not readily available in any quality. We had a new product that was not completely set up for automation but the marketing department insisted we put it on the shelves. The interim answer was to have the process done by hand in
china until we had the production equipment built. To make that work we had to export steel to China and then import the partially finished product back to the US. No Chinese steel was available in decent quality.

 

[RedneckWelder]

I have older corded tools. A negative against many of them is that they are heavier, less ergonomic, or less convenience features. Sometimes less safe as well (think of old corded drills that aren’t double insulated). I have an old Makita angle grinder that will not die but instead of 4.5” wheels it uses 4” wheels. I have an old Craftsman sawzall that was top of the line in the 80s but you have to use an Allen key to change the blade, it doesn’t have the quick change latch of the newer ones. I have an old Makita miter saw that is bulletproof...but it’s a 7.5” blade IIRC, so doesn’t cut as large of boards plus it doesn’t have the double compound and sliding rails of the newer ones.


I grew up using tools that were “made when they made them right” but most of what we had was wore out ****, missing parts, etc so it was frustrating to use. I’d imagine a vintage tool in like new condition would be nice to operate but I personally welcome a lot of the newer stuff

 

[username2]

It's not always a case of getting what you pay for either. I worked a contract for Denso Automotive, a huge global maker of starters/alternators and instrument clusters for the auto makers. Part of my job was sourcing injection molds from anywhere in the world for the molding dept. There was an internal memo concerning China that flatly stated concerns to be aware of. Preliminary and/or first piece inspections would likely pass but the concern was after approval was given for production. Substitution of critical materials, sub-standard methods (surface finish, out of tolerance specs, etc.) and "cutting corners" to boost profits was quite common. The memo urged hiring an inspector to be at the facility to constantly monitor all processes and materials for conformance to what was specified.

.

That sounds exactly like this guy's stories (2011).

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0470928077/?tag=atomicindus08-20

My gut feeling is that it's a culture that is more oriented towards the finding and fleecing of suckers than most. With no time spent there, it's just an impression.

I'm afraid we're stuck with them though. Even if labor costs shrink as a percentage of the whole, it's hard to beat someone with large manufacturing infrastructure. The shoe factory is down the road from the shoelace factory is down the road from the aglet factory.

I got to watch, in my own industry at least, the whole shootin' match of offshoring. The end result of going overseas for components and then boards and then entire finished assemblies is to move engineering. What's left is marketing and some exotic use of trademarks. A bummer, but there you have it. I guess we can all get rich buying and selling stocks of internet surveillance advertising companies.

 

[username2]

We wanted cheap. We got cheap. Nobody to blame but the consumer. No business will survive by building products that fail to sell.

Time to stop blaming governments and businesses.

I wonder if it isn't a sort of generational change.

Improvements in design and materials have been chasing a need for low price for some time.

In my world, you could definitely see a huge increase in cost sensitivity sometime...dunno...maybe 15 years ago. Peoples' ability to spend a lot of money on control surfaces (buttons, joysticks, faders, knobs) and casework really started evaporating. 'Good enough' also became the order of the day on the actual product internals.

I could be convinced otherwise, but it doesn't seem like a purely Chinese thing.

 

[zendriver]

I grew up using tools that were “made when they made them right” but most of what we had was wore out ****, missing parts, etc so it was frustrating to use. I’d imagine a vintage tool in like new condition would be nice to operate but I personally welcome a lot of the newer stuff

It just seem mostly reminiscent fantasy, for some as we had the same **** too.

Most every town had at least one electric motor repair shop, which replaced bearings, cords and rewound power tools and motors. Maybe that's why the tools "lasted" so long

Occasionally now, I get older power tools from auctions, that appear to have not been used a lot.

They are really "not all that" IMO and I have no desire to use them in place of modern, usually imported tools.

 

[qqzj]

Chinese can make any tools, the key is how much the companies in USA want to pay them. If the contract is valuable enough, nobody dares to cheat them, think about Walmart and Costco. For tools specifically, Milwaukee makes them in Taiwan, China and Vietnam, all of them work great. In fact, due to trump's trade war, and the general awareness of the potential threat from Chinese competition, companies have started to move production out of China. Mostly to southeast Asia. I went to O'reilly's recently. They have three tool brands. Power torque, ultra steel and performance tools. All the fixed combination wrenches are from India now. After 20 years or less, GJ will probably talk about how good chinese tools are, just like they talk about japanese stuff now.

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[username2]

It just seem mostly reminiscent fantasy, for some as we had the same **** too.

Most every town had at least one electric motor repair shop, which replaced bearings, cords and rewound power tools and motors. Maybe that's why the tools "lasted" so long

Occasionally now, I get older power tools from auctions, that appear to have not been used a lot.

They are really "not all that" IMO and I have no desire to use them in place of modern, usually imported tools.

In the narrow case of power tools, particularly the battery-powered sort, you can make an argument that the microcontroller is partly at fault for any downfall in manliness.

My last dabbling in cordless tools, 14.4V Milwaukee drill, was kind of a beast. I think it was made in the US, but I'll bet the main difference was the lack of intelligence in the device. You had to make things unbreakable in prior generations, now you can stick sensors in it and back off the power as needed.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

As to Chinese steel. No, it is not readily available in any quality. We had a new product that was not completely set up for automation but the marketing department insisted we put it on the shelves. The interim answer was to have the process done by hand in
china until we had the production equipment built. To make that work we had to export steel to China and then import the partially finished product back to the US. No Chinese steel was available in decent quality.

I worked the last 25 years in the steel industry. We used steel from China, it wasn't as good a quality as US made steel. But the US made steel wasn't anywhere near the quality of the Japanese made steel, either. There were price differences. We required a decent level of quality, the Chinese got better over the years.

When our company was independent, we bought German made machines.

Quality is a cultural thing as well. The Chinese have a "what can we get away with".

 

[RoninB4]

This is JMO but I feel that the buying public has to share the blame for poorly made goods. Sure, corporate bean counters do drive many designs into the dirt like the short working life of major appliances (7 years). But most consumers have no idea how things are made and what defines a better built product. For most consumers all things are equal but the price because they have no idea how it was made. Consumers have accepted that products have a short working life and are disposable, even when that product is only a few years old, regardless of cost.

The lack of knowledge and cost targeting creeps across manufacturing until it affects everybody. I now work at a supplier to an auto maker and needed to make a poly-carbonate guard for one of the injection molds. Getting the new looking jig saw out it needed a blade. The only blades purchasing had allowed were generic blades that wouldn't fit, marked "China" on the blade. The jig saw will continue to look new and shiny because nobody will be able to use it.

I have dozens of examples in manufacturing of bean counters and "engineers" making decisions they're not qualified to make. The buying public is even less informed, with many on this site being the exception, and feed the marketplace. There will be no demand for better made products the public doesn't use very often. Comparatively few consumers know how to do anything with their hands and most don't care to learn.

I've been watching manufacturing involved in a race to the bottom since the early 80's. Outsourcing for greater profits began our circling of the drain. While technology has produced some truly wondrous innovations I don't expect improvements to build quality any more.

Apologies for the rant, I'll get off the soap box and return to my seat in the back row now.

 

[qqzj]

The buying public doesn't have to share the blame. If you think how many families are on food stamps, how many are on unemployment benefits, how many are fighting for the stupid $600 stimulus checks, and how many are one-car-repair away from bankruptcy, you know there is a place for OKAY tools. The people in USA is not as rich as they were 20 or 30 years ago. They can't afford unnecessarily expensive tools. To revive the tools, you need to enrich the people first. But that is a whole different topic.

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[Paco Pena]

If you want a ratchet that would sell for a $100 China can make it. If you want something that looks like a ratchet that you can sell for $5 China can make it. Its all up to the customer.

paco

 

[dscheidt]

To echo what others have said, China is capable of producing world class goods as well as **** not worthy of the junk yard.

It's not always a case of getting what you pay for either. I worked a contract for Denso Automotive, a huge global maker of starters/alternators and instrument clusters for the auto makers. Part of my job was sourcing injection molds from anywhere in the world for the molding dept. There was an internal memo concerning China that flatly stated concerns to be aware of. Preliminary and/or first piece inspections would likely pass but the concern was after approval was given for production. Substitution of critical materials, sub-standard methods (surface finish, out of tolerance specs, etc.) and "cutting corners" to boost profits was quite common. The memo urged hiring an inspector to be at the facility to constantly monitor all processes and materials for conformance to what was specified.

I have a friend who works in the garment industry. They had a product that they'd been having made by a chinese contractor. that contractor had produced the product (a pretty technical garment, think like a ski parka, with lots of complicated pieces, seams, and made of several different kinds of fabric) for several years to a very high standard, with no problems, than all of sudden decided that they could use inferior materials, and change the patterns, without
any consultation or notice. Fortunately, they noticed early, and didn't pay for most of the production.

 

[toddmorr]

Quality is a cultural thing as well. The Chinese have a "what can we get away with".

few like to admit it, but it's true. The Chinese just aren't obsessed with quality like say, the Japanese. Just aren't. Doesn't matter who is paying them.
Can they change? I don't know, they've been at this for quite a while with marginal improvement it seems to me. Maybe the market will force them up the quality ladder..., might..next 5 yrs will be key.

 

[toddmorr]

If you want a ratchet that would sell for a $100 China can make it. If you want something that looks like a ratchet that you can sell for $5 China can make it. Its all up to the customer.

paco

i'll be a little provocative and say that they can't, and wouldn't do the $100 ratchet loosely speaking. Remember their whole supply chain and infrastructure is built around fast and good enough....all the relationships, the compliance, the raw materials, the subcontractors, all of that is designed to support speed to market, low costs, and good enough quality. That's just what they know and believe in. And they're good at it.

Contrast that with the Japanese, who are totally comfortable stopping a process to get something minor corrected, speed be damned. And of course they have costs built in that support that.