Chinese tools and durability

[Cgw1984]

Let me tell ya something our gov't certified instructors would teach solder program training classes stressed certain overseas manufacturing facilities far surpassed our quality

This paragraph makes no sense. I cant tell if you are advocating us or china quality. I think you mistyped, or forgot a word.

Op- no most the old us made **** died decades ago. Of course more china stuff shows up broken.. theres more out there period. Its no bearing on the quality of usa or china tools. But, i feel like you already knew that, and were trying hard to start, yet another, "hurr durr usa iz duh best" thread here.

 

[M6erfan]

It is a mindset. Of the country of manufacture. When I was younger and into cameras the quality difference between say a Nikon, Hasselblad, and Kiev of the same period was pretty stark. One could tell just by handling and using each camera what the mindset of the producer was.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

There are two players here. We have looked at the supplier and now the consumer . We have what I call the Walmart complex. It's best explained in their adds.

11 years ago my wife and I visited Australia . We hit an RV show at a fairgrounds, we wanted information on camping trailers for my son. We ,also, looked at tent trailers. I know more than little bit about them. They cost $20,000, where as here in Canada at the time they were $10,000 for an American made one. But here is the kicker, the Aussie ones were 3X the quality. BTW an Aussie industrial tradesman made 10-15% less than Canadian ones. Our dollars are about par.

We no longer think like that.

 

[Robinson1]

I think we are to the point that alot of the USA made power tooks are already been worn out and discarded. Thats why you don't see many USA tools for sale as parts or repair.

Let's face it, in a professional setting especially industrial and commercial power tool life spams are measured in months. Not years. It not that its a bad tool. Its just nothing will hold up to constant use, often 3 shifts a day, by various users. Alot of those users with the attitude of I didnt buy it why should I care.

That also brings us to most end users myself included it would never occur to list a broken tool. Its not worth the time it takes to box and ship for the pennies on the dollar return.

If I have a tool that fails under use it generally goes in the scrap bin or dumpster. At the end of the day its not worth fixing sub $250 tools that most likely paid for themselves the first day on the job.

Ive got a good friend who does concrete and masonry. He uses a skil worm drive with a diamond blade to cut block. What do you think the lifespan is on that tool? A year? 6 months? He's got a 6 month backlog of work and phone ringing everyday. You think he's going to list a saw for parts? Or even try to fix one himself for that matter? Its a $175 tool that pays for itself before lunch most days.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

Someone questioned if they would change. My son says he can almost instantly tell whither he's talking to a mainland, Hong Kong, or Taiwanese Chinese. Since we willingly buy made in Taiwan tools , I would say certainly.

We in BC have had Chinese immigrants since the days when we were a British colony.

 

[dutchgray]

Let's face it, in a professional setting especially industrial and commercial power tool life spams are measured in months. Not years. It not that its a bad tool. Its just nothing will hold up to constant use, often 3 shifts a day, by various users. Alot of those users with the attitude of I didnt buy it why should I care.

The dead power tool bin at my local scrap yard gets filled up every couple weeks, most in there are fairly new tools, every couple months there will be a batch of about 20 identical Makita angle grinders in there that all dead and all within a year of the production date, coming from some local factory where the things are run all day every day. I get about a decade out of a similar grinder on average and use them regularly at work but have several for different uses.

Power tools are better than they have ever been, for what they cost now.
Ones made in the 80's and 90's were often better built to last longer and didn't have electronics that made them difficult to fix but they cost more too, the common repairable failures were almost always a switch or brushes or a bearing, which were fairly obvious to the user. But they were not as user friendly as a modern tool, especially cordless tools.

 

[zendriver]

few like to admit it, but it's true. The Chinese just aren't obsessed with quality like say, the Japanese. Just aren't. Doesn't matter who is paying them.
Can they change? I don't know, they've been at this for quite a while with marginal improvement it seems to me. Maybe the market will force them up the quality ladder..., might..next 5 yrs will be key.

The Chinese are obsessed with production more so than quality.

The Japanese were obsessed with quality over quantity, but in real world modern economics, it eventually bit them in the ***.

That's why they too outsource to China and their Toyota trucks made here in the US, use silicone caulking in the engines, verses seals.

Quality vs cost have always been a delicate balance.

Edit:

For others who enjoy irony in the bizarro world we live in.

Now Chinese businesses are realizing the appeal (or feeling the sting, depending on your point of view) of outsourcing, sending factory jobs to Vietnam and other lower-cost Asian countries, to Mexico – which combines low costs with proximity to the lucrative U.S. market – to Africa, and now even to the United States itself.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/haroldsirkin/2016/07/07/chinas-new-worry-outsourcing/?sh=51f222256c20

 

[PFSard]

few like to admit it, but it's true. The Chinese just aren't obsessed with quality like say, the Japanese. Just aren't. Doesn't matter who is paying them.
Can they change? I don't know, they've been at this for quite a while with marginal improvement it seems to me. Maybe the market will force them up the quality ladder..., might..next 5 yrs will be key.

If I remember correctly, back in the day "Made in Japan" used to be synonymous with junk.

China is a HUGE country. Not homogenous across regions, industries, companies, etc. Or time. In Mao Tse Tung's day, the game was different. But in the last 40-50 years, China has made significant changes to its economic systems. Incredible story. I hope I'm around in 20-30 years to see how the world will have changed.

 

[PFSard]

............ On the domestic side I purposely hunted for a large tap made in the USA. I found one shop in Wisconsin and proudly paid for it after speaking by phone with them. It was poorly made and tore the threads despite increasing the hole diameter and using my best tapping fluid. I ended up ditching the new tap and sharpening an old tap to get the job done. Made in the USA is no guarantee either. ...........

* I didn't realize that taps could be sharpened. How is that done?

* I've worked in four manufacturing facilities in the good ole USA. Every one sent junk out the door.

 

[dogdog]

If I remember correctly, back in the day "Made in Japan" used to be synonymous with junk.

China is a HUGE country. Not homogenous across regions, industries, companies, etc. Or time. In Mao Tse Tung's day, the game was different. But in the last 40-50 years, China has made significant changes to its economic systems. I hope I'm around in 20-30 years to see how the world will have changed.

Yea, 70's 60's I think, turning tie around early/mid 80s.. and got accused of product dumping and price fixing around late 80s, bought the Rockerfella Center too.... Sony and Panasonic basically killed the RCA, Zenith, Fisher Price TVs... China... Not even on the map ....

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

You know when I was looking back on the time when working stiff still made a good living, '70s, I realized that was almost a half century ago. I guess we have to move on.

 

[RoninB4]

* I didn't realize that taps could be sharpened. How is that done?

Either by grinding the lead/taper back to where the teeth are sharp (this is often done for a shop made bottoming tap) or very carefully grinding in the flute of the tap at the leading edge of the teeth under magnification. Only a few .001's are taken and that will slightly change the major diameter of the tap. Usually only the first few teeth get dulled/chipped in normal use. If the cutting edge of the teeth are chipped then too much material needs to be removed. Care has to taken not to overheat the tap, discoloration changes the hardness/temper.

Either or both methods can be used but you will NOT have the same results as a brand new tap. These are the methods employed in desperation, not by choice. YMMV

 

[danski0224]

I rarely see made in USA stuff, like the older Milwaukee, Porter cable, and craftsman/Black and Decker Industrial, despite it obviously being older and in service longer.

I'd wager that new Milwaukee branded power tools made in the USA haven't existed in the general consumer universe for almost 20 years. I haven't looked at a new corded Milwaukee power tool in a long time, but I doubt they are made in the USA.

The last of the mostly non-China made Milwaukee cordless tools were in the original NiCd 18V platform.

That general timeframe likely applies to most consumer grade power tools.

The RIDGID corded woodworking tools made by Emerson Electric and sold at Home Depot also disappeared then.

So, you are looking for tools that for the most part, would be well beyond their service life if they were actually used frequently. Or, they are no longer used and may have been discarded.

I can probably count on one hand the number of times I have used a corded Sawzall in the last 15 years or so, outside of work. A lot of corded tools like a Sawzall or circular saw or drill were displaced by cordless tools for many homeowner and other light grade users.

A framing carpenter wouldn't use a Milwaukee 18V NiCd cordless circular saw all day, every day, but that was my go to saw.

Now there are true cordless equivalents to corded standbys like a Sawzall and circular saw- even a worm drive and table saw. They do chew up the batteries though. A fast charger is really needed on a jobsite.

I have seen the Milwaukee cordless table saw and worm drive saw used on a commercial jobsite. The cordless M18 Sawzalls, rotary hammer with vacuum attachment, compact bandsaw, deep cut bandsaw and impact drivers and more have all generally held up to daily abuse from employees generally not giving a **** about the tools because the tools aren't "theirs". By the time the tool breaks from daily use and some abuse, it is not cost effective to repair it or mess with it when the labor rates for lost time are considered. There should be a brand new one on standby to keep the job moving. Many employers have not yet grasped this simple concept. The tools are mostly disposable and need to be eventually replaced.

Of course, the individual that goes out with a mission to destroy employer provided tools is a problem, but not that common.

I hardly see any yellow or blue tools on jobsites. I remember when it was all yellow. Then blue. Now it is mostly red, which is a problem because people steal batteries.

And of course, most (if not all) of the new stuff is made in China.