Choosing a welder

[Terry D]

Merry Christmas to everyone.
I would like to get more into welding. I have had a Lincoln weld pak 100 for years, I never did buy the mig kit for it, so I have been running flux core wire. I defiantly want to upgrade my welder. My question is, are the multi process machines worth it or is it better to have a separate machine for each process. I have been looking at the Lincoln 210 MP, the reviews for the mig and stick are great, but the tig part of it is said to be limited. Plus you have to spend another 400.00 for the mig accessories. They are offering a rebate on it now for a price of 1099.00. My weld pak 100 is nice to be able to take to the job every now and then, I'm a small electrical contractor, every now and then I need something welded, but the welder is limited. I believe you can still buy a mig kit for it. As far as a budget, I just want to get a decent welder for the money I spend. I am not opening a fab shop, but want a welder that can handle small fabrication if needed. Dual voltage ones seem to be nice for taking it out of the shop when needed, but that doesn't happen often, plus I still have my small one. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

Where TIG is great is for welding thinner guage aluminum , under 1/8". That takes a AC machine, ideally programmable. You want to customize the wave form. My welder model is called Wave 200. I bet there are half a dozen various welders with that moniker. The other place TIG is handy, is welding small parts. It was $1000 ( $750 US ) but that was a fairly bare machine just a hand piece and ground.. I had an argon bottle, but had to get a flow meter , stinger, and a foot pedal.

My TIG does DC stick, as well. This allows me to use 7018 for critical parts. Oddly enough, it's set up to do 7014 3/32, as I have a couple of boxes of that, that doesn't use any gas.

 

[WoodsTruck]

I'm no professional but I bought a Mickey Mouse MIG 110V unit in about '92 and upgraded it a few years ago to a Hobart 210. Huge difference in capability and consistency. I have a 50' 220V extension cord to get the welder out to the curb if I have something too big to get in the shop. I know I wouldn't have enough practice with TIG to justify one so I farm that out when it needs done.

 

[kazlx]

You really need to figure out what you want to do. The multi-process machines are definitely a compromise. For what you already have, I don't think you could go wrong with an actual 220V mig. The reality of it is, you will most likely never use the welder outside of your shop and 99% of people really won't use a DV setup like they think they will. But a decent 220V mig and if you want tig capability, pick up something like the AHP. Keep in mind, a tig will take some saddle time to get decent, I honestly wouldn't worry about getting a tig unless you legitimately intend on sitting down and putting in some practice. You don't need to be a pro and drop dimes at any angle, but for most people it takes at least a little work to be able to run a decent bead.

 

[gte718p]

I haven't welded with the 210, but the reviews are excellent. For me the 210 or Miller 211 are worth it to have a very nice dual voltage machine.

I doubt I would every even hook up the tig. You can pick up a DC tig for less then the accessory kit if you want to play. I have a Eastwood that is great for messing around with and has HF start which I find to be very nice.

If you really want the tig, I would step up to the Miller 215 so you get AC tig.

 

[MJK]

If you really want the tig, I would step up to the Miller 215 so you get AC tig.

Miller 215 does come with TIG, but DC TIG only. Or, at least that is the way mine is.

I have hear rumor that some new multiprocess machines may be AC/DC capable but I have not seen this on the market yet in 215 machine. It is entirely possible it has happened while I have not been paying attention.

 

[sberry]

I'm no professional but I bought a Mickey Mouse MIG 110V unit in about '92 and upgraded it a few years ago to a Hobart 210. Huge difference in capability and consistency. I have a 50' 220V extension cord to get the welder out to the curb if I have something too big to get in the shop. I know I wouldn't have enough practice with TIG to justify one so I farm that out when it needs done.

This is super typical.

 

[sberry]

This is super typical.

A 211 feeder with gas is a machine you want even if you have others. It's a good place to start and really does 99.9% of the jobs a maintenance/hobby type has to do. I can tig, I have one, used it for the first time in 10 years, both for hire jobs.

 

[sberry]

I was in the welding store Monday for a roll of wire. The guy says that the lws is finally waking up to the fact that diy/hobby etc is overtaking trade sales, duh, they a little slow on the uptake. I would like to see this dvi, 210 but he says a couple shops bought them for field work.

 

[gte718p]

Miller 215 does come with TIG, but DC TIG only. Or, at least that is the way mine is.

I have hear rumor that some new multiprocess machines may be AC/DC capable but I have not seen this on the market yet in 215 machine. It is entirely possible it has happened while I have not been paying attention.

I thought I had read the 215 had ac, but it appears it starts at the 220. The 220 is a huge jump in price.

 

[danski0224]

All-in-one as a DC machine isn't too expensive. The cost goes up considerably if one wants an AC TIG capable multiprocess machine.

The exceptions are the Chinese machines, and don't forget that the Blue and Red machines may have some significant non-domestic (USA) content as the small machines are all inverters now.

As a hobbyist or light fabricator, it is difficult to justify buying Red or Blue when these import machines seem to do so much reasonably well, if not exceptionally.

I'm sure that with a little effort, a MIG kit can be sourced for your current welder.

That would be the least expensive option, especially if the machine meets your needs as is.

Keep in mind that flux core wire runs hotter than straight shielded, so if you are at the maximum capacity running flux core, it may not run hot enough with gas shielded wire. The polarity is different.

Some of the small inverter stick machines have difficulty running certain types of rod, so be sure to read the specs. I think 6010 is the rod that can be an issue, but check for yourself.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

Where the imports, and that includes the little Lincoln 200, max out is heavier aluminum ,like 1/4" . Because aluminum is so conductive, it take a fair bit of power. I was able to weld 1/4" with mine, but that was her limit. The other place cost comes into play is the circuits, those extra parts cost more money . They are required for low power settings. I can't weld beer cans with mine.

A programmable stick welder is very sweet. A side benefit.

 

[BukitCase]

For those not familiar with welding history, aluminum welding (PRE inverter) used to be called HeliArc - used pure helium and DC tig. I haven't priced pure helium in a LONG time, but for some applications (occasional repairs maybe?) it might be cheaper than paying TWICE the price for an AC tig.
Example - here's my DC tig/stick (wouldn't weld beer cans much, they're aluminum)
https://www.everlastgenerators.com/...MIzonV_f7T5gIVsSCtBh3VvgRcEAQYAyABEgLF_vD_BwE

And the comparable AC/DC unit
https://www.everlastgenerators.com/product/tig-stick/powertig-210-ext

Here's Jody to tell you more about "HeliArc" -

... Steve

 

[theoldwizard1]

A 211 feeder with gas is a machine you want even if you have others. It's a good place to start and really does 99.9% of the jobs a maintenance/hobby type has to do.

For a beginner, it is worth the extra money to buy a dual voltage MIG that is capable of adding gas ! Room to grow !!

 

[BigMike782]

The Miller Multimatic 220 AC/DC is an awesome machine. Most multi process machines do somethings ok and others so much. Miller got this one very right!
I ran every process(stick, mig, flux core, DC TIG, AC TIG even spray transfer MIG) and it did everything very well. The one obvious down side is it will be a little short on power for AC TIG.
It's also priced so that most guys should be able to swing it.

 

[BigMike782]

For those not familiar with welding history, aluminum welding (PRE inverter) used to be called HeliArc - used pure helium and DC tig. I haven't priced pure helium in a LONG time, but for some applications (occasional repairs maybe?) it might be cheaper than paying TWICE the price for an AC tig.

With helium being on allocation it may be hard to buy any unless you have a helium agreement with your welding supplier.

 

[BukitCase]

"With helium being on allocation it may be hard to buy any unless you have a helium agreement with your welding supplier. "

Mike, good to know; (I DID mention it'd been a LONG time, right?

I KNEW there was a good reason why I do nearly everything in STEEL (one type or another) ... Steve

Edit - for any aluminum I might do (repairs, not "art") my MM252 and 30A will have to do...

 

[BigMike782]

That was not intended to call you out
The vast majority of people buying welding supplies do not know about the allocation or understand it(no, I do not understand it to the molecular level either)
I have a 20 cf cylinder of helium that was mostly just to try DC alum. To be honest you CAN weld aluminum on DC with straight argon but because of the lack of cleaning action to break up the oxide layer it's like poking a stick into a swimming pool with the cover on.....it works but is not ideal or pretty.

 

[BD1]

What type of welding work will you be doing ? Hard to beat a dedicated mig multi volt machine.
Buy a mug and a AC/DC stick welder. You can do stick and tig with it .
I prefer dedicated machines. Some of the older multi function ones had a issue where when one process died, nothing else would work. Might want to research that.


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[Downwindtracker 2]

"With helium being on allocation it may be hard to buy any unless you have a helium agreement with your welding supplier. "

Mike, good to know; (I DID mention it'd been a LONG time, right?

I KNEW there was a good reason why I do nearly everything in STEEL (one type or another) ... Steve

Edit - for any aluminum I might do (repairs, not "art") my MM252 and 30A will have to do...

I don't know about his 252, but with my earlier 250x and a 200 spool gun, it got tricky at less than .100". However on heavier stuff, they have built aluminum ships with these units.

 

[sberry]

For a beginner, it is worth the extra money to buy a dual voltage MIG that is capable of adding gas ! Room to grow !!

You should have a welder, even a 120v 140. I got a cousin lives near you, he bought a half roll used 140 with bottle and all the fixing for 150$, looked like it came out of the box.
Guy bought it to weld one thing and never used it again.

 

[DTE]

I bought a Hobart 210MVP last year and it does great. If you have not welded with gas before you won't believe the differance it makes.

 

[Terry D]

Thank you for all the great tips and suggestions. Im thinking a stand alone 240v mig is what I want. I sure do like the ones with the 7" display screens on them, but they come with a hefty price.

 

[sberry]

If I was getting a machine and could live without 120v it would be a red one from the box store or a 187/190 from Hobart. They are super simple, designed by welder types, a lot cheaper and work really well. Kind of like a bare utility truck with a 4 speed. It's the same chassis, engine as one with all the features that drive the price up, the 211 has every option they ever invented which drives the price up,,, same arc, same weld.

 

[lis2323]

Another vote for Hobart 187/190 [emoji106]^^^

I had an 187 and it was a well valued basic mig.

 

[sberry]

I got to admit that the imports have really came of age as of late. Not too long ago they cost too much and didn't work well enough. But the welding industry has always had good value compared to some other tools. They were well designed, they were relatively economical, they last a long time, often a career. The dealers were good. Prices went up less than inflation.

 

[Aaron_W]

Total newbie home welder here, but I looked at a lot of machines before I bought one.

I have a Miller 220AC which is a 120/240v machine, does MIG, TIG (AC and DC) and stick. It has been a great machine so far. It is literally 2 machines in one box and allows you to instantly switch between MIG and either stick or TIG remembering the last setting used. TIG and stick use the same port so you can't have both set up at the same time.

I have a roughly 200 sq ft shop, so space is at a premium. In a small shop like mine having 3 welders in the space of 1 is a huge advantage. While it is a relatively expensive machine, welders are expensive. It is priced similarly to buying a standalone MIG and TIG/stick of the same capacity.

They didn't compromise the capability, it is essentially an upgraded Miller 211 MIG (has digital display instead of analog), and Miller Diversion 180 for the TIG / Stick (more power, but a little less flexible on the bottom end). Buying those two machines separately would cost another $600.

The MIG, stick, DC TIG only machines are cheaper but not as much cheaper than they initially look ($1500-ish). Both the Miller 215 and Lincoln 210 come out in the $2100-2200 range once you buy the TIG kit, so $700-800 cheaper not the $1500 they appear at first glance.

Huge advantage to stand alone MIG and TIG/Stick is you can spread out the costs, buy what you need when you need it, and get machines that fit your specific needs. There is also the dread of a 3 in 1 machine dying and taking all of your welders out at once.

I mostly MIG, so I could have bought the 211 for $1300, or splurged and bought a 252 (still saving a few dollars). If I actually needed stick, used AC/DC stick welders are not hard to find for $200-300. I could then buy the appropriate TIG welder if/when I really have a need for TIG. I really didn't need TIG, but the thought is having it available, will lead to my using it. The more I use it, the better I will get. The better I get, the more I will use it. Again tiny shop, so a small multi-process welder was a big plus for me.

There are a lot of cheaper import machines out there, and many are getting decent reviews. I preferred to stick with a name brand that my local welding supply can service, but the price is nice for what you get. One of the guys in my welding class bought a Harbor Freight TIG welder for about $800 and he has been happy with it, a similar machine from Miller or Lincoln would cost nearly 3x as much.

 

[Jeff Ivers]

Merry Christmas to everyone.
I would like to get more into welding. I have had a Lincoln weld pak 100 for years, I never did buy the mig kit for it, so I have been running flux core wire. I defiantly want to upgrade my welder. My question is, are the multi process machines worth it or is it better to have a separate machine for each process. I have been looking at the Lincoln 210 MP, the reviews for the mig and stick are great, but the tig part of it is said to be limited. Plus you have to spend another 400.00 for the mig accessories. They are offering a rebate on it now for a price of 1099.00. My weld pak 100 is nice to be able to take to the job every now and then, I'm a small electrical contractor, every now and then I need something welded, but the welder is limited. I believe you can still buy a mig kit for it. As far as a budget, I just want to get a decent welder for the money I spend. I am not opening a fab shop, but want a welder that can handle small fabrication if needed. Dual voltage ones seem to be nice for taking it out of the shop when needed, but that doesn't happen often, plus I still have my small one. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Those who are really into welding will give you one set of opinions. To me, nothing in your post defines a need that exceeds that of the WelPak 100 with the MIG conversion. I have been using a WeldPak 100 with Mig for over 20 years and have done a ton of fabrication. Now if you are wanting to learn to TIG weld or you want to start fabricating car trailers, then that is another story. Keep us posted on what you decide.

 

[Aaron_W]

I will add, if you haven't TIG welded it is a huge jump up in difficulty from MIG. I took a stick / oxy fuel class before buying my welder. I was basically able to teach myself MIG, and was doing ok, so when I took a MIG class it was basically just fine tuning skills.
I've done a little TIG welding, but I'm looking forward to a TIG welding class because, to be honest I **** at it.

 

[BD1]

Go to local welding supplier and get a dedicated mig machine and a 125 or 150 tank of 75/25.
Get a price on a package deal.
If you want the Miller rebate you only have a few days left.


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[Dh3256]

The vast majority of people buying welding supplies do not know about the allocation or understand it(no, I do not understand it to the molecular level either)

Helium is produced by radioactive decay and cannot be practically or economically produced. As a result, all the helium we will have in our lifetimes already exists. In addition, helium is a small molecule and when released in the atmosphere migrates off into space and is not recoverable.

A few years back the US decided strategic helium reserves were excessive and sold off excess helium. This drove prices down for a few years until the reserve was at the desired level and they stopped selling that helium. Prices have been rising since and there is concern of running out of helium, so supply is limited.

Helium is used industrially for things like NMR machines as well as welding.

 

[Dh3256]

Has anyone figured out an economical solution to gas for those of us who weld infrequently? The rental cost for a tank seems high for infrequent use and apparently they won't fill owned tanks especially if they don't have a current certification.

 

[Aaron_W]

Has anyone figured out an economical solution to gas for those of us who weld infrequently? The rental cost for a tank seems high for infrequent use and apparently they won't fill owned tanks especially if they don't have a current certification.

Try another vendor? My local welding supply will swap tanks if you buy from them. Maybe even if you don't, I bought my tank from them so not sure about outside tanks.

No supplier will fill a tank outside of its test date, that would be a huge liability for them.

 

[BD1]

Try another vendor? My local welding supply will swap tanks if you buy from them. Maybe even if you don't, I bought my tank from them so not sure about outside tanks.



No supplier will fill a tank outside of its test date, that would be a huge liability for them.

My supplier will exchange a out of test date cylinder and add a Recertification fee. Suppliers have their own policies on cylinders.
Call your suppliers before buying tanks and see what their policies are.


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[wawaw]

This subject seems to come up all the time. There also seem to be so many opinions . As a former welding instructor & some one who was responsible for setting up welding shops this is my opinion. IF you think you want to weld for ever as a hobby or a vocation then buy a professional machine & learn how to use it. If an occasional repair or small fabrication is your goal almost any machine will fill that need. Welding is a skill you accuire through learning & practice.

 

[lbpd716]

The Miller Multimatic 220 AC/DC is an awesome machine. Most multi process machines do somethings ok and others so much. Miller got this one very right!
I ran every process(stick, mig, flux core, DC TIG, AC TIG even spray transfer MIG) and it did everything very well. The one obvious down side is it will be a little short on power for AC TIG.
It's also priced so that most guys should be able to swing it.

Totally agree here - I have a friend who has the 220 AC/DC and it works very well for light industrial applications for him. Maybe I'm biased by his success with the machine and now have one myself as of Xmas. Need to get my bottles filled before I can start using it though

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

"I don't know how a guy can work without welder and a metal lathe." A lot of truth in that.

 

[MJK]

A) start with a good basic 120V gas Mig welder - Hobart Handler 140 or similar for $400. When/if you want to upgrade you'll lose next to nothing.
B) get a dual voltage machine that will DC tig, and you will likely never want to get rid of it but may want to add AC tig. I have a MM215 but Tweco/ThermalArc/Firepower 211i is also nice and substantially cheaper.

EDIT: Originally I stated MM211 in B. I could have sworn that when I got my 215 the 211 had a TIG accessory available but only one gas solenoid. It appears I got myself confused with the Tweco/Thermal Arc/Firepower 211i. Thanks to Bukit for calling me on it.

 

[BukitCase]

"get a dual voltage machine that will DC tig for $1200, and you will likely never want to get rid of it but may want to add AC tig. I vote for Miller 211 or similar"

Please explain to me how I can use my MM211 for TIG... Steve

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

On the welding forums, there are long threads about the problems with getting bottles filled or exchanged , besides the cost.