Cigarette Smoke Ventilation

[smschriefer]

I checked out the site listed at the bottom of this post and according to it you would need 1920 cfm to vent the room (based on 8' ceiling) with a volume of 14,400 cu ft. That would mean the air would be completely changed out in 7.5 minutes. 180cfm would take 80 minutes to replace all the air in the room. I think if you mounted it over the bar, you should keep the haze down. It won't be completely effective, but it won't cost you a ton to make up for the heat loss. The only other cheap option I can think of is to go to the Habitat ReStore and buy a used oven vent hood and mount it flush with your ceiling. They would pull at 400+cfm and save you some money up front and clear the air quicker.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/Ventilation/Ventilation4.html

 

[trainer]

Hook up the fan and see how it works. You may want to experiment by putting the exhaust at the opposite end of the garage from where you do most of your partying to get the noise away from you.

If it works better when you open a door or a window by letting more air in, then you could consider some way to introduce make up air.

Even if you need to crank up the heat for an hour or so every weekend while you have a window cracked open, it proabably wont be a big expense.

 

[Stuart in MN]

How about something like the air cleaners used in woodshops? They're basically a box with a fan and a filter, that draws air in through the filter to remove sawdust from the air. The advantage is they don't require makeup air from outside, so you aren't pulling in cold air in the winter. Smoke particles are much smaller than sawdust particles, but you could experiment with different kinds of filters. Here's one home made example. http://www.woodcentral.com/shots/shot522.shtml

This guy did some experiments with different types of filter material that may be helpful. http://www.air-purifier-power.com/replacementprefilter.html

 

[sirsloop]

When it is reasonable for your friends to compromise your health and damage your property?? Only when the weather is not pleasant to stand outside in for 5 minutes? I have friends that smoke and at least they respect me enough not to smoke in my dang house! Nevermind the fact that if one lit up in my house without asking they would be on the curb so damn fast with no future invite.

 

[kneisska]

We had one of those ionic breeze things from the sharper image and used a fan to keep the air moving. It didn't clear out the air completely, but helped out a bit. Especially if we let it run after the party was done. The room the machine was in actually smelled a bit better. Obviously, you don't need to to anything like this during the warm months though...your choice it obvious.

We've since ceased smoking in the last 5-10 years where it's not constant. Or else we just lift the door.

 

[X1 Mike]

When it is reasonable for your friends to compromise your health and damage your property?? Only when the weather is not pleasant to stand outside in for 5 minutes? I have friends that smoke and at least they respect me enough not to smoke in my dang house! Nevermind the fact that if one lit up in my house without asking they would be on the curb so damn fast with no future invite.

It's too bad you don't have as much respect as the OP. He did not ask for your opinion yet you feel he needs to have it forced on him.

 

[472scout]

Another thread up in "flames"

 

[HOTFR8]

And this is helpful to the OP how?

Jim

That was my response to another post being negative about smokers. Have you read that post ? I have friends that smoke and they know they can not smoke inside my works for many reasons but wait now you have me repeating what I posted earlier and that is no help.

Perhaps we should tell him to build a Smokers room and then we can see it being built

It is helpful because it provides him with options beyond what he proposed. I agree, if someone wants to smoke - fine. If it is in my garage, my rules are followed. If the OP is fine with the smoke, he needs ventilation, but he does have a two fold problem and that is he also posted that his structure is far from air tight.

The real question is when he does improve the ventilation, how expensive will it be for him to keep the space properly heated in the winter. It sounds like he needs a system for both refreshing the air supply as well as supplemental heat to offset the heat loss caused by the new ventilation system and drafts from other sources that will increase as soon as he puts a negative pressure inside the building. If his friends were really good friends, they wouldn't put a financial bind on him to remedy the issue. They would go outside and smoke. Of course that is my opinion and he might not agree.

Plenty of options

The douchebaggery in this thread rivals Free Parking. The OP didn't ask anyones opinion on smoking or if he should let people smoke. He presented a problem and asked for specific solutions. If you don't have one STFU because people get sick of listening to you.


With that all being said:

I have no suggestions but I am watching this thread to see if any good solution comes up.

So offer up the solution / idea you have for him before the topic gets so far off topic that it is no help to any one.

 

[JimVonBaden]

The douchebaggery in this thread rivals Free Parking. The OP didn't ask anyones opinion on smoking or if he should let people smoke. He presented a problem and asked for specific solutions. If you don't have one STFU because people get sick of listening to you.

Jim

 

[FunkyfullWidth]

Maybe grinding, drilling and welding shouldn't be allowed in a garage either... What the hell is wrong with people... Smoking is probably one of the least dangerous things i can think of to do in a garage besides taking a nap... over on the OFN site there was a debate about more taxes for cigarettes, turned into a holy war... Cigarettes and religious debates/threads always derail like this.

Do you have windows in your garage? Maybe put a couple of window fans in... Cheap and easy, then try something else if it doesn't work. I think the hood or whole house fan idea would work the best. The smell is something only time/and or alot of air fresheners can get rid of, but the haze shouldn't be too hard.

 

[RalloZ35]

We had one of those ionic breeze things from the sharper image and used a fan to keep the air moving. It didn't clear out the air completely, but helped out a bit. Especially if we let it run after the party was done. The room the machine was in actually smelled a bit better. Obviously, you don't need to to anything like this during the warm months though...your choice it obvious.

We've since ceased smoking in the last 5-10 years where it's not constant. Or else we just lift the door.

Weve got one like this, and it seems to do nothing but blow it around Maybe ours is just defective?

But if you put a range hood over the bar, the majority of the smoke will be sucked out. And If you buy an alright one it wont be too loud. A few years ago we put one in over the smoker to get rid of the smoke and that works good, so why wouldnt it work for cigarette smoke?

 

[Jackfre]

Here you go!

http://www.tjernlund.com/retail/xchanger_basement_fan.htm

These things work very well. Excellent company! I represented them in my business for 25 yrs.

 

[Milton Shaw]

I sometimes smoke when I am welding/cutting but its not intentional. A good HEPA filter should take care of smoke as that is the size of the particles they are designed to catch. One with a carbon filter would also neutralize the smell. There would be filter replacements eventually but that would be cheaper than the heat for make up air. Also any of the electrostatic filters designed for whole house air systems would also clean up the air enough.

 

[jimindm]

I would say about the best solution would be the range hood. It would not exhaust so much air, that I would worry to much about a fresh air intake. Any exhaust system, the more air flow, the more fresh air needed. OP being in Wisconsin I would guess he is talking about for winter use. If your heating source has a vent to the outside, that will be your fresh air intake. Your garage would have to have some really big air leaks, to not intake the air from the furnace vent. As long as the heat is not on, not a problem. If the heat is on, you may have issues.

I thought my garage leaked plenty. I put in an exhaust fan. Its an attic fan, with outside louvers, just in the wall. With my overhead door shut, my service door will open about half way on its own, when I turn the fan on. I never, ever use it with out haveing a door open. Does not matter the weather or the temp outside, it never is on without the door ajar.

I plugged in a CO detector, to passify the wife. It just went off all the time, so I unplugged it.

As far as the smoking goes its your garage, you do as want to. I smoke and I think there are many more rude non smokers than there are smokers. In an outdoor arena, I do not think my smoking is bothering the one person that walks from two sections over to tell me about it. I would also say that if you can not go out to eat, or a movie, etc, with out wondering outside to smoke, you have a problem. I have encountered way more non smokers that are more concernered about smokers that are out of the way, off to the side, watching where their smoke goes and where they put their butts, than smokers that are out in the open puffing away in the middle of a crowded place.

As far as cancer. If you can pour it or spray it, it causes cancer. If you eat it or wear it, it was probly treated with something that causes cancer.

Its about lunch time. I think I will go get some triple cheeseburgers, some chili fries, and a soda, followed up by a 7 layer cake and ice cream. When I get home I will spray the yard for weeds and fertilize. My boat trailer need the wheels painted, and bearings packed. I will ponder what my smoking is doing for my health all afternoon.

 

[koditten]

I'm for the range hood option. I have a pair of friends that are HEAVY smokers. They make themselves sit in front of the range hood when they light up. Which is, I bet every 9 minutes. I don't smoke so I know the smell of a household of smokers. Their house only has a hint on cigarette smoke. I was actually amazed when they lit up and smoked constantly the whole hour or so I was there. I just figured that they did the garage or porch thing.

As for making up the air, I'm sure that the garage door has plenty of infiltration to supply make up air. After all house range hoods work pretty good with all the doors and windows closed around here.

FWIW, I don't smoke, but I love the smell of a freshly lit 'Buro Red. Just don't like the smell left over hours later. No soap box here. I'm a welder and I know I'm doing more damage to myself than the occasional second hand smoke episode.

Hope I helped

KO

 

[Delta74]

ok, trying to keep on track, try this one its a little expensive ( 127 bucks ) but i use two one in , one out in the hot tub room and it keeps the room clear of smoke, moisture and chemical smells. just add a vent near the smokers and a vent outside, the fan can be mounted any where, add a motor control vari speed and you can adjust it from nothing to everything.

http://www.homedepot.com/Building-M...splay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051


now keeping with the theme, I have had friends killed by drunk drivers and I hate beer, so too bad you are not drinking in my shop, its a filthy habit and it can trash your liver. so all you disgusting beer drinkers can stay out.

ok fun over, I would really suggest the fan i linked, i love mine and they are going strong and quiet for 4+ years now in a ver humid enviroment, and they can be mounted anywhere, just get some 4inch dryer plastic ( accordian ) pipe and run teh inlet near the bar, and exhaust in the eves or something and I do think you will be very happy with the result.

 

[slip knot]

I usually use a box fan in the window. I got a few buds who burn some herb on a regular basis but since I gotta study for the 1/4ly drug tests, I prefer to vent it out ASAP. if it wasn't for the quarterlys we'd have the shop closed up tight!

 

[vibenation]

It's too bad you don't have as much respect as the OP. He did not ask for your opinion yet you feel he needs to have it forced on him.

Going to have to quote this every single time someone tries to shove their opinions about unasked questions down throats.

I like the cut of your cloth sir.

 

[HOTFR8]

Having been looking into ideas for an exhaust fan for Diesel fumes and my new pit in the extensions I am working on I find the exhaust fans will draw the air out very quickly and at the same time create a cold air draft.

On another note the rangehood over the stove has failed and will have to be replaced so I guess I am going to pull it apart and scrap it and I may see how good that is an exhaust fan.

 

[SIDECAR BOB]

If it is your property and you don't allow smoking it is your property fine, if it is his property and he allows smoking, the same rules apply to you don't like it leave. the property owner should be making the rules, not the government, not the other people visiting.

 

[madstat]

I used to be a bartender and bar manager back when you could still smoke in bars. I can tell you this, trying to clean the air of cigarette smoke while keeping the garage heated is an expensive endeavor.

Contrary to what some people have said, from my own personal experience, smokeaters work, why else do you think they are installed in bars across the country? They just need to be maintained like any other HVAC equiptment, they are expensive and need constant maintenance. I know the OP said this was not on the table but if He wants to party up with his friends during the winter, stay warm and not have his place reek of cigarette this is about the best option.

The next thing I would do is look into an exhaust fan of some sort, commercial grade even. Like Dayton or something. We had a couple of these installed in our restaurant and they did a noticeable job of reducing the "haze". In this application we didn't care all that much about the heat loss because when you had a lot of people packed in the bar it was hot, regardless of how cold it was outside so letting cool air in helped. Of course bars and restaurants have high ceilings typically and you could place the grills for the exhaust up high which tended to **** the smoke up and out.

 

[Rodhotz]

This is what i use for my exhaust in my shop. It is ducted to the welding area, paint table and down by the doors for exhaust fumes plus 3 in the ceiling of the shop. It pulls great and is relatively quiet.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/DAYTON-Blower-7AP91?cm_sp=EN-_-L2-_-TopSellers&cm_vc=FFTS

 

[Tech Guy]

Plump I went with the largest and quietest broan bathroom fan I could find. Mounted it right above the bench. Then I took the big plastic shroud that is used to mount to the bottom of a table saw for central dust vac collection and have everyone stand under that and smoke. The fan itself used to miss some of the smoke but the upturned dust collector made it like a large kitchen range hood.

 

[BadgerBoilerMN]

It's a free country but an ERV will save you and help you keep your friends, sinners be they may ;-).

 

[chevelle67]

To the OP's original question. Welding exhaust hoods work excellent at removing smoke and you get a new welding hood system.

 

[Jackfre]

Wouldn't a "patch" and the new electronic smokeless smokes work here. Just keep a supply of patches and slap'em on when your smokers arrive!

 

[Plump]

Thanks for the ideas. I actually did convert a box fan into a filter last winter and slapped a HEPA filter on it. It actually did make some difference and maybe that, combined with an exhaust fan that I can turn on for a few minutes on those nights, would accomplish what I'm looking for.

I totally love the basement air exchanger by the way and plan on using it in some capacity in the home or garage.

 

[BadgerBoilerMN]

Whole house fans have been obsolete for all applications for some time. The key is proximity. A heat recovery ventilator is the answer. Save up to 75% of the energy you would waste with open door, direct exhaust, etc.

Exhaust over the smokers and in the bath and fresh high on the opposite wall or ceiling.
If you use a direct vent it still has to be sized to the load and intake air considered. Most steel buildings and pole sheds are quite air-tight when properly finished.

 

[Jackfre]

Whole house fans have been obsolete for all applications for some time. The key is proximity. A heat recovery ventilator is the answer. Save up to 75% of the energy you would waste with open door, direct exhaust, etc.

Exhaust over the smokers and in the bath and fresh high on the opposite wall or ceiling.
If you use a direct vent it still has to be sized to the load and intake air considered. Most steel buildings and pole sheds are quite air-tight when properly finished.

For a while in the 90's I represented an ERV company. I had one guy tell me that the ERV saved his marriage. He had a poker night once a week with his cigar smoking buddies. Putting the intake of the ERV right over the table preserved the fresh air in the house and his wife was able to put up with it

 

[Old grumpy 1973]

I don't weld or run any engines in the garage so I'm not concerned with full-on fresh air ventilation. What I need to figure out is how, especially in the winter months when everything is locked down, how to get cigarette smoke out of the garage.

We have friends over quite often, some that smoke, and it gets oppressively smokey after a while. The garage is heated and insulated but is far from air tight. I was looking at a Broan ventilation fan at Menards that moves 180 cfm at 6.5 sones (about $70). I'm not hugely concerned about the noise since the drunks usually take care of that but obviously, I don't want it to drown out music and conversation. I was thinking of putting it up directly above the "bar" area where we sit.

Any ideas, advice, or pitfalls you all have run into? Wiring it up isn't a problem as I've got a dedicated line for it all ready to go. Piping it to the outside won't be an issue either as I've got plenty of room in the attic to get it outside. Intake air an issue? As stated, the garage leaks like a sieve already and I don't want to lose too much heat in the winter.

Thanks lads and lasses!

I found an old dust collector online, 600 c.f.m , installed it in my attic and ran metal ductwork through the ceiling after a wastegate, everything is 4” and works really well. Once it’s cleared out I simple shut the gate and turn the power off

 

[isb cornbinder]

No smoking is a solution. Secondhand smoke is more dangerous to health than smoking. I am not offering an opinion, here.
I stopped smoking over 40 years ago and I have deposited my cigarette money into a separate savings account, every week. The account shows nearly $140,000 traffic over 4 decades. I am 76. All of my smoking friends are dead. Most of them never made beyond their 50s.
This is all about priorities.

 

[Jackfre]

Check this unit out. I sold a lot of these when working. They take up little space and f both fans are reversible by simply pulling down on the fan, turning it and putting it back in place. So Both fans blowing out, one out/one in, or both in. Tjernlund is an excellent outfit.https://www.tjernlund.com/xchanger_basement_fan.htm

 

[ripperd]

Another vote for an hrv here.

Will definitely work and be more economical to operate. Put the indoor intake just above the smoker's.

 

[mervyn]

And I just noticed this thread is —10 years old lol so never mind !