Circuit breaker for Test Lead or Jumper

[MrMark]

I know I've seen this but I cannot find it. Instead of using a fused jumper wire to test for or confirm a dead short I would like to use a resetable circuit breaker, kind of along the lines of what the power probe III has incorporated. I just want the test lead though. Testing for dead shorts blows a lot of fuses; the circuit breaker would be more economical and faster than having to replace the fuses.

12v automotive use. It would be nice if the circuit breakers were replaceable to offer different amperage ratings, just like switching the in line fuse to the appropriate amps in a fused jumper.


Where can I find this??

 

[Fedwrench]

http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/p-1628-innovative-products-of-america-8005.aspx

http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/p-7757-innovative-products-of-america-8016.aspx

I think these two sets may be what you're looking for. You could probably also make your own.

 

[diesel research]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000CSXHSW/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[MrMark]

Thanks guys, I can just insert the bussman breakers inside of a fuse in my jumper with the fuse carrier. Excellent.

Fedwrench, those are very nice products and I can see their use if you were testing for shorts with the circuit connected to the fuse panel.

The use I recently had was just connecting to the battery with the fused jumper and testing a multispeed motor with a fused jumper for a dead internal short. I disconnected the motor to do this test of course. No biggie to replace two test fuses but the circuit breaker would be more versatile and they are pretty cheap.

I also am going to order a fuse buddy (with the wire loop) so I can read amp draw on the circuit with my hall effect clamp.

 

[usdemt]

Also look at the resettable breakers, then you dont have to wait for it to reset.

http://order.waytekwire.com/products2/M50/140/100/200/1/ATC%20Style%20Manual%20Reset%20Breaker/Circuit%20Breaker%20Blade%20Type/Circuit%20Protection/

 

[MrMark]

I'm glad you posted that. I found a resetable Bussman CB223-20 Type III that would seem to fit the bill for what I want.

But the Waytek are much cheaper. Too bad I can't find them on Amazon. I think just a 15 amp version would do the trick for what I want.

What about the Type II, where the breaker resets when you deenergize? It seems that that would work too. Touch the wire to the dead short and the breaker trips, then remove it and it resets? Is that type just as good as the manual reset version?

 

[MrMark]

OK, I see waytek is just a supplier. Doh

What about this?

http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail2/M50/46782/CIRCUIT BREAKER 15 AMP TYPE 3/

Is this a bussmann breaker?

What is ATC/ATO? I know what the ATC is but I don't know what the ATO is.
some of these are ATC and some ATC/ATO??

edit: It seems ATC is a Bussman tradename and ATO is a littlefuse tradename and that they are the same dimensions and interchangeable? Correct?

Then why is it that the Bussman resettable breakers come in ATC version and ATC/ATO version? Seems to make no sense?

 

[Toolhorder]

I have the second set that Fedwrench posted. It's a very good tool that I use once in a while but when you need it you need it. I just used it Friday to find a short on a 95 Mercury Sable. This short would only happen if you jiggled the main harness under the dash. Being that the fuse savers can be reset over and over (circuit breaker) it was really nice for this situation.

Here's what I ended up finding on that one,

Main harness rubbed through on that bracket below which had been wrapped in corrogated tubing at the factory. The split in the tubing was exactly where it rubbed through. Fixed the wires and used some liquid electrical tape, tape and wrapped that bracket with a cut down the side piece of heater hose zip tied to the bracket to avoid anymore chaffing later down the road.

 

[MrMark]

How's that liquid electrical tape? I have a can, never used it. Is there a split heat shrink tube that you could use to repair that cut insulation?

When you say fixed the wires, did you just dab some of the liquid tape, let it dry, and then wrap with black elec. tape? Curious as to the best methods here because I have had this come up.

Are you saying that the corrugated tubing pictured (which is wiring harness conduit) is covering a bracket???

 

[CoreyVanDine]

A simple circuit breaker and a couple of pig tails with spade connectors on the end works great!!!! The breaker is automatic so if there is a dead short the power will turn on and off. So when doing the "wiggle test" if you hear the breaker switch or stop switching you know your in the area of the problem. I'll take a pic of what I've made tomorrow. I've got about three dollars in it.

 

[MrMark]

Great! I would like to see it.

I was just thinking that you could take that homemade breaker with the spade connectors and use it for both of the tests being discussed here. You could plug it in the fuse box and do the "wiggle" or similar testing AND you could make up some connectors so that you could use it in a powered jumper as I am wanting to do! I could buy one Type I (auto reset for the fuse block application to hear it cycling) and one Type III (manual reset) for my powered jumper application and just switch breakers in the "fuse holder" as needed.

Kill two tool birds with one stone.

 

[Toolhorder]

A simple circuit breaker and a couple of pig tails with spade connectors on the end works great!!!! The breaker is automatic so if there is a dead short the power will turn on and off. So when doing the "wiggle test" if you hear the breaker switch or stop switching you know your in the area of the problem. I'll take a pic of what I've made tomorrow. I've got about three dollars in it.

Yeah I could have made my own breaker but the beauty of that master set is all the pigtails and leads are already made up, you get all different sizes and a buzzer that you can plug inline with the circuit breaker if you want to hear the breaker trip. Personally I don't have time to chase all that stuff down and make it my time is pretty consumed as it is. The kit is pretty nice for a pro guy that does a bunch of electrical work. To each his own, you can make it or buy it the stuff works all the same.

 

[Toolhorder]

How's that liquid electrical tape? I have a can, never used it. Is there a split heat shrink tube that you could use to repair that cut insulation?

When you say fixed the wires, did you just dab some of the liquid tape, let it dry, and then wrap with black elec. tape? Curious as to the best methods here because I have had this come up.

Are you saying that the corrugated tubing pictured (which is wiring harness conduit) is covering a bracket???

Since the wires were pretty closed quarters and in a tight group I couldn't wrap them one at a time. I basically pulled them apart (they were "stuck" together) and inspected the wiring damage. It looked okay to go ahead and reuse IMO so I applied liquid electrical tape around both wires a couple of times and let it dry. I then wrapped them and the other wires in regular electrical tape and then wrapped that bracket/tubing with a piece of rubber heater hose cut down the middle and stretched over the original bracket and tubing. A couple zip ties and a zip tie to hold the harness and it went back together.
Works just fine no more rubbing! I think I only charged the guy to find it not to fix it.

 

[Stick]

I've got a couple of jumpers with aviation style circuit breakers on them. They come in handy, especially for some of those "oops" moments when jumpering to something that has power or ground unexpectedly.

I've also got the FuseSaver master kit for hunting down wiring problems in-vehicle. Especially handy with the buzzer when you are working your way along a harness and can't see the breaker any more.

A slightly cheaper version would be something like a 6054 headlight bulb in-line in the circuit with some fuse adapters to get into the circuit box. The bulb acts as a current limiting device, so when there isn't a short it will glow dimly, and when the circuit is shorted it will light up brightly.

I've got plenty of tricks, because nothing is perfect for any one situation.

 

[Stick]

How's that liquid electrical tape? I have a can, never used it. Is there a split heat shrink tube that you could use to repair that cut insulation?

When you say fixed the wires, did you just dab some of the liquid tape, let it dry, and then wrap with black elec. tape? Curious as to the best methods here because I have had this come up.

Best practice would be to cut and strip the wires, and heat shrink them after soldering them back together or to crimp using a heat shrink **** connector. In the real world, that isn't always practical, which is where products like liquid electrical tape are handy.

I keep a can handy for those instances where I have to pierce insulation instead of backprobing a connector when testing. It's much safer than using RTV or nail polish to seal holes, as both of those can actually introduce corrosion through a chemical reaction with the copper wiring and the acetic acid that both of those contain.

 

[SiB]

A slightly cheaper version would be something like a 6054 headlight bulb in-line in the circuit with some fuse adapters to get into the circuit box. The bulb acts as a current limiting device, so when there isn't a short it will glow dimly, and when the circuit is shorted it will light up brightly.

This is what I do, just used it today to find one (out of 4) ignition coils that failed. When the circuit is operating normally the headlight is OFF, when the circuit is shorted the headlight turns ON, start unpluging things on the circuit and when the light goes OFF you have found your problem. Easy and cheap, I am a tech by day in this is one of my "must have" tools.

 

[CoreyVanDine]

Yeah I could have made my own breaker but the beauty of that master set is all the pigtails and leads are already made up, you get all different sizes and a buzzer that you can plug inline with the circuit breaker if you want to hear the breaker trip. Personally I don't have time to chase all that stuff down and make it my time is pretty consumed as it is. The kit is pretty nice for a pro guy that does a bunch of electrical work. To each his own, you can make it or buy it the stuff works all the same.

The master set is a nice tool. However the time it took me to call my local parts store and have the supplies delivered to my professional shop was not very consuming. I just thought I'd offer a simple inexpensive solution.

 

[MrMark]

Just make sure the wiring is rated to handle the current for that headlight. I don't know what a headlamp pulls but I wouldn't want a 10 amp draw on a circuit wired with 5 amp wire, not for very long at least, since you have no fuse.

It's a clever idea though; I'll have to get a bulb like that.

 

[MrMark]

Yeah, Stick, it's tough to solder under the dash. I have a friend that has a car where the AC clutch connector wire has a hole in it that some AC man put in it to probe. I told him I'd put some liquid tape on it and call it good. Sounds like that is not a horrible solution. I'd probably do the same on my own car.

 

[Stick]

Just make sure the wiring is rated to handle the current for that headlight. I don't know what a headlamp pulls but I wouldn't want a 10 amp draw on a circuit wired with 5 amp wire, not for very long at least, since you have no fuse.

It's a clever idea though; I'll have to get a bulb like that.

A 6054 bulb is 65W on the highbeam side and 35W on the lowbeam side. Let's do the math:

65W/12V= around 5.5A
35W/12V= around 3A

14 gauge wire is capable of carrying 5.5A well over 50 feet, and even 18 gauge is good to about 25 feet, so I think you would be fine. The headlamp itself acts as the fuse, and limits the current through the circuit, so you should never see more than 5.5A on the high side.

 

[Toolhorder]

This is what I do, just used it today to find one (out of 4) ignition coils that failed. When the circuit is operating normally the headlight is OFF, when the circuit is shorted the headlight turns ON, start unpluging things on the circuit and when the light goes OFF you have found your problem. Easy and cheap, I am a tech by day in this is one of my "must have" tools.

I'm confused by your post, are these ignition coils?
If so why not just unplug each coil one at a time during a cyl. balance test. ?

 

[MrMark]

That's good to know that the bulb doesn't pull that much. I didn't realize they were that low wattage - well, maybe I should have with as little light as most headlights put out. Seems like a totally safe bulb to use. Just need those Sheffield adapters or a couple paper clips to McGiver it.

 

[Toolhorder]

Best practice would be to cut and strip the wires, and heat shrink them after soldering them back together or to crimp using a heat shrink **** connector. In the real world, that isn't always practical, which is where products like liquid electrical tape are handy.

I keep a can handy for those instances where I have to pierce insulation instead of backprobing a connector when testing. It's much safer than using RTV or nail polish to seal holes, as both of those can actually introduce corrosion through a chemical reaction with the copper wiring and the acetic acid that both of those contain.

Yeah my repair wasn't ideal but to get to that point I had to remove the cluster and drop the steering column. The circuit wasn't carrying a lot of amps and the copper wiring was still decent so liquid electrical tape seemed like a good enough solution. I was more concerned about future rub through. It was definitely good enough for government work.
Cutting that out and crimping in or soldering wires in there would have been tough without removing the harness from the car and repairing it. Sometimes you have to make calls like that in the shop but I did put my name on that repair so I'm married to it now.

 

[Toolhorder]

When I worked at Honda part of the job as a dealership tech was to do the pre delivery inspections on the new Hondas before they are cleaned and put on the front lot for sale.
One of the things you have to do is add 1 or 2 fuses to make things like the radio work. I installed the fuse on this Pilot and it immediately popped. This is a new vehicle so that's odd. I didn't really believe it so I installed another and it promptly popped. WTF?

This is bad especially as a flat rate tech. I was fast at doing PDI's so I made a decent amount of money doing them. If I had to stop to fix this one with a short I'm losing money because Honda pays straight time IF they decide to pay at all. That kind of pay is "approved" by a rep. from Honda not my dealer.
I'm not real happy at this point but I report the problem to the service manager and call Honda techline after to report it and see what they want to do.
Honda wanted it fixed and in fact after they got off the phone with me techline at Honda called the factory in Alabama and the factory stopped production on Pilots.
I only knew that because I got a call from the factory early the next morning wondering what I found.
I used a ping tool similar to what telephone guys use which connects to the fuse holder via a fuse adapter that plugs into the holder and you power that part up. It sends a pulse through the wires. The other tool you turn on and it has a wand you find the short in the wire/s with.
I mainly used this tool though because it has an LED that lights when shorted or open. I left it connected and it showed "shorted" and blinks as long as the circuit is shorted. I then looked at the wiring diagram and split the circuit in half by unplugging connectors (easier ones first) and basically had unplugged them to the point I ran out of connectors.
The last one was for the rear entertainment circuit. The thing about this particular Pilot is it had no rear entertainment system so the connector was looped and taped to the main harness. Honda does this sometimes to save money (make one harness, loop and tape non needed stuff)
Anyway I pull the A pillar trim and look inside with a flashlight and see that the connector that was the only one left (and not supposed to be plugged into anything) was taped but the wire was pinched between the dash bracket causing the short.

I sent this exact picture to Honda corp. and they were suppose to make a bulletin for the factory workers so they don't pinch this wire in the future,

Honda had two options to fix this. Pull the dash completely out and fix the wire OR cut the wire and tape the end to the harness. They chose cutting it and taping it because the vehicle doesn't have a rear entertainment option and they saw no need to pull the dash to fix it.

Just thought I'd share.

 

[SiB]

I'm confused by your post, are these ignition coils?
If so why not just unplug each coil one at a time during a cyl. balance test. ?

Ignition coils yes..... The failed coil was blowing the fuse so the engine would not run.

 

[Toolhorder]

Ignition coils yes..... The failed coil was blowing the fuse so the engine would not run.

Ah I see so you needed the light in series right?

 

[SiB]

Ah I see so you needed the light in series right?

Yes, it replaced the fuse.

 

[Toolhorder]

Yes, it replaced the fuse.

Makes sense, I never had a coil cause a short yet so that's good to know. Usually they open on the primary winding for me.

 

[Stick]

Makes sense, I never had a coil cause a short yet so that's good to know. Usually they open on the primary winding for me.

The real fun ones are DIS coils when one side shorts to ground, and the other side fires fine.

 

[Toolhorder]

The real fun ones are DIS coils when one side shorts to ground, and the other side fires fine.

I thought that's what we were talking about...What's the deal with that situation?

 

[Stick]

I thought that's what we were talking about...What's the deal with that situation?

Broken wire on one leg of the primary coil (DIS is tapped in the middle for ground), combined with a crack in the coil housing. Generally pretty easy to spot on a scope, one side can't energize and the other fires at close to twice what it should be.

 

[HaroRider]

I am just curious, would you have to do this on both the positive and negative side of the leads?

 

[Simz144]

Anybody use this???
http://www.tooltopia.com/kd-tools-2524.aspx


I've see it in this video

 

[Stick]

I am just curious, would you have to do this on both the positive and negative side of the leads?

Just one side.

 

[Simz144]

Anybody use this???
http://www.tooltopia.com/kd-tools-2524.aspx


I've see it in this video

Bump!!!!

 

[rodm1]

Bump!!!!

I have one they ****! Toolhorder's sounds like a good setup. What mode and brand?