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Circuit Breaker Lock

John in OH

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Jun 2, 2007
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SE Ohio & Eastern Virginia
I've got a question/mystery ... in my main breaker box there is a 15a 120v breaker that has a locking mechanism on it and is wired with a "red" wire of a 3 conductor cable. The "black" wire of the 3c cable goes to a lighting breaker immediately below the locked breaker. The breaker is labeled "dishwasher" and, indeed, it does feed the dishwasher. I could understand that maybe the refrigerator circuit have a lock but, why in the world would a dishwasher circuit have a lock??? What's the reasoning??
 

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79firebird

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Victoria bc
might have been the braker manly used well the place was being built. ive seen a fue used in a new house where just one outlet was installed. Then removed after
 

mrb

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dishwasher needs a disconnect, so if it was hard wired this was the method to lock it out to service the appliance. now days theyre just cord and plug
 

cowboyjosh

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Mar 11, 2010
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Last summer we did allot of overhaul and re-wiring work in a few High Schools built between 1965 and 1989, one had Westinghouse Panels throughout the original building, Square D QO on the more recent additions; I was shocked in the Westinghouse panels how many breaker locks were installed throughout the building. In one case one of my guys wanted to see if the breaker would disconnect so he dead shorted some wiring on one of the locked breakers and he was off welding, the breaker didn't / couldn't trip. Some of the locks looked like they had been in place since the 1960's.

Now days Im not even sure if you can buy breaker locks, anyone know?
 

Gooch

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Petersberg, IA
Last summer we did allot of overhaul and re-wiring work in a few High Schools built between 1965 and 1989, one had Westinghouse Panels throughout the original building, Square D QO on the more recent additions; I was shocked in the Westinghouse panels how many breaker locks were installed throughout the building. In one case one of my guys wanted to see if the breaker would disconnect so he dead shorted some wiring on one of the locked breakers and he was off welding, the breaker didn't / couldn't trip. Some of the locks looked like they had been in place since the 1960's.

Now days Im not even sure if you can buy breaker locks, anyone know?


they do. but they can't interfere with the breakers ability to interupt a fault condition.
 

Norcal

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Mar 16, 2008
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Last summer we did allot of overhaul and re-wiring work in a few High Schools built between 1965 and 1989, one had Westinghouse Panels throughout the original building, Square D QO on the more recent additions; I was shocked in the Westinghouse panels how many breaker locks were installed throughout the building. In one case one of my guys wanted to see if the breaker would disconnect so he dead shorted some wiring on one of the locked breakers and he was off welding, the breaker didn't / couldn't trip. Some of the locks looked like they had been in place since the 1960's.

Now days Im not even sure if you can buy breaker locks, anyone know?

Breaker locks are still avail & breakers are required to be "trip free" so one cannot hold them closed on a fault. Intensional shorting of a breaker by a "electrician" and I use that term loosly, should result in being fired on the spot there is no excuse for such behavior, made even worse by doing on older gear.... What if the breakers had been FPE Stab Lok? They are infamous for failing to open on a fault.
 

nehog

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Jaffrey, NH
IMHO, it was intended for the fridge circuit, so that some nimrod would not trip it off and not realize the fridge was no longer getting power. What does the black wire feed, do you know?
 

cowboyjosh

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Breaker locks are still avail & breakers are required to be "trip free" so one cannot hold them closed on a fault. Intensional shorting of a breaker by a "electrician" and I use that term loosly, should result in being fired on the spot there is no excuse for such behavior, made even worse by doing on older gear.... What if the breakers had been FPE Stab Lok? They are infamous for failing to open on a fault.



Well we would have known if the school had FPE it would have been obvious so that isnt a problem. Shorting ****, especially 110 isnt anything new and if youd fire a guy for that youd eliminate allot of good electricians from the trade. I still dont usually condone it though, it is dangerous and bad business.

In that school building intentionally shorting was the least of the problems, there were many of outlets that had electrical tape wrapped arond the screws because they were so loose in the stripped out boxes from years of the janitors yanking vacuum cords out of the outlets we were told that sometimes when the outlet would ground out it would trip other times it would not.

I would have liked to have replaced all th old Westinghouse gear with new Square D, but being low bid school job, it was all about the $.
 

jonny o

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Only time I have seen them is to lock them OFF when lockout-tagout in the dirty end of a bowling alley.
 

Gooch

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Petersberg, IA
Well we would have known if the school had FPE it would have been obvious so that isnt a problem. Shorting ****, especially 110 isnt anything new and if youd fire a guy for that youd eliminate allot of good electricians from the trade. I still dont usually condone it though, it is dangerous and bad business.

In that school building intentionally shorting was the least of the problems, there were many of outlets that had electrical tape wrapped arond the screws because they were so loose in the stripped out boxes from years of the janitors yanking vacuum cords out of the outlets we were told that sometimes when the outlet would ground out it would trip other times it would not.

I would have liked to have replaced all th old Westinghouse gear with new Square D, but being low bid school job, it was all about the $.

good electricians don't need to short wires on purpose. Any electrical contractor i know of in my area or have worked for, if you get caught doing that, you'd be going down to the hall quicker than the breaker tripping.
 

Gooch

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Petersberg, IA
Only time I have seen them is to lock them OFF when lockout-tagout in the dirty end of a bowling alley.

they don't actually 'LOCK' the breaker as usually all that is needed to remove them is a screwdriver. any of them I have put on have been to keep the breaker from accidentially being turned off, like on a fire alarm or server rooms, or the like.
 
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cowboyjosh

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good electricians don't need to short wires on purpose. Any electrical contractor i know of in my area or have worked for, if you get caught doing that, you'd be going down to the hall quicker than the breaker tripping.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but try and find another 3rd generation Master Electrician with 35 year experience who stll love his work and whom all the customers love, and who has wired 3/4 of the homes built in the past 30 years in that small town. He has probably forgot more then most electricians know, and can still recite code from the late 60s / early 70s when h wa a Apprentice for his dads company. Another of his bad habbits is he will still touch live equipment in a pinch too see ifthe circuit is hot, like the used to do before test lights, meters, etc; this i dont condone at all.

However heres the double standard, if a apprentice gets caught jerking around there gone.
 
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Grinder Bill

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Jan 11, 2011
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Back on-topic for a sec... We use these Brady devices to lockout 110v circuits at the panel:
http://www.bradyid.com/bradyid/pdpv/65396.html
65396.jpg
 

Norcal

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, but try and find another 3rd generation Master Electrician with 35 year experience who stll love his work and whom all the customers love, and who has wired 3/4 of the homes built in the past 30 years in that small town. He has probably forgot more then most electricians know, and can still recite code from the late 60s / early 70s when h wa a Apprentice for his dads company. Another of his bad habbits is he will still touch live equipment in a pinch too see ifthe circuit is hot, like the used to do before test lights, meters, etc; this i dont condone at all.

However heres the double standard, if a apprentice gets caught jerking around there gone.


All that tells me is that so-called "Master" is ignorant. There is no excuse for stupid behavior like that & what the tracing tools today, it's much safer to trace it w/ the proper tools rather then shorting wires. he needs to be digging ditches not risking himself & others.
 

mrb

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, but try and find another 3rd generation Master Electrician with 35 year experience who stll love his work and whom all the customers love, and who has wired 3/4 of the homes built in the past 30 years in that small town. He has probably forgot more then most electricians know, and can still recite code from the late 60s / early 70s when h wa a Apprentice for his dads company. Another of his bad habbits is he will still touch live equipment in a pinch too see ifthe circuit is hot, like the used to do before test lights, meters, etc; this i dont condone at all.

However heres the double standard, if a apprentice gets caught jerking around there gone.


those 'ive been doing it like this for 40 years and have forgotten more than you'll ever know" types can be quite dangerous.
 

cowboyjosh

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those 'ive been doing it like this for 40 years and have forgotten more than you'll ever know" types can be quite dangerous.
Alright, off topic again.

Yeah, so can the kid who's in school at night and works during the day who still think he's a cool SOB and bad **** won't happen to him. Electrical Contracting is risky all the way around. Before I owned my own shop and was building houses, in college I worked for a very large electrical contractor with locations around the country and personally witnessed incidents, some minor, 2 horrific, by both the veterans and rookies of the trade.

I could also get into the politics of small town business and the ramifications if I fired this particular person, we'd never have another job in that town (population 3000) again.

We continue to keep an eye on everyone, we spend allot of monty to have a comprehensive safety training program developed by a risk management firm, everyone drawing a paycheck (including myself) is required to be Red Cross CPR certified every year, all of our bigger commercial job sites have AED units in the trailer or in the truck of the Superintendent on site and also on the commercial jobs we have safety meetings every morning discussing the days goals. Going above and beyond on every job site including residential has a sign (usually a large dry erase board) in a common location listing the job site address, the city in which were working, the Police, Fire, EMS numbers as well as the numbers for the local utility companies.

At some point you have to rely on your guys to take responsibility for themselves and their work, plenty of the "old timers" have witnessed enough shocks, burns, and sometimes death throughout their career that you hope they still have respect for "the beast". We can only do so much as an employer to preach respect for electric; the day you stop being cautious, and somewhat fearful and you lose your nerve around electric, you lose, game over. Working with electric is allot like handling a loaded firearm, there is no REWIND button.
 
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bobemmerich

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Middletown, Ct.
I've been studying this for awhile now. I have noticed something..The breaker with the lock on it, the writing on it seems to be more faded than all the others. maybe one of these two are possible:
1)Someone put it there because it kept tripping and they got sick of resetting it? It would be a stupid thing to do, but hey anything is possible...
2)They needed a breaker and that was all they had laying around as a spare in thier stock from a discarded panel
Just my .02 for what its worth...
 

walrus

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Nov 12, 2008
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Maine
Permanently affixed LOTO device for a motor load, those red plastic things won't cut the cake. The disconnect has to be in sight or you have to have a permanently affixed LOTO
 

ptschram

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Sep 8, 2006
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Churubusco, IN
It is unlawful under federal safety regs to "lock" a circuit on as there must be an accessible means to break the circuit in the event of an emergency.

Electricians who are handling live wires are breaking the law and should be disciplined, otherwise, the employer runs the risk of being proven to have an ineffective safety program. Between "electrical safe work practices" and the "control of hazardous energy", there are ample instances where such behavior is regulated and disallowed.
 

Norcal

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13,752
I've been studying this for awhile now. I have noticed something..The breaker with the lock on it, the writing on it seems to be more faded than all the others. maybe one of these two are possible:
1)Someone put it there because it kept tripping and they got sick of resetting it? It would be a stupid thing to do, but hey anything is possible...
2)They needed a breaker and that was all they had laying around as a spare in thier stock from a discarded panel
Just my .02 for what its worth...


Newer breakers are "trip-free" they cannot be held closed on a fault, breaker lockout devices as shown by to OP is code compliant means of locking a breaker off to service the circuit it controls.
 
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