circuit issues - MBR any thoughts?

[Crizzle]

Twice today I have lost power in the MBR of the house. The entire bedroom is on one circuit, with one switched outlet. There is also a ceiling fan on the circuit.

The first time it happened the ceiling fan, one light bulb, a 32 inch LCD tv were on and I turned on the xbox and about 3-4 seconds after turning on the xbox all of those devices lost power. The circuit breaker did not trip and the ceiling fan continued to work. After about 45 minutes everything came back on.

I unplugged everything, flipped the breaker off, and pulled the faceplates on the switch and the four outlets to see if there were any visible issues (or if I could feel any heat), and turned the same items back on. The issue happened again. Again, nothing is visible or feels hot to the touch near any of the switches or outlets.

The house is a little over two years old, just outside of the electrical warranty (of course). Any thoughts on what this could be? An outlet or switch dying and killing the circuit? Not sure I understand why it would just be the 1 switched outlet and the other three outlets going out while the ceiling fan stays on, but I don't even pretend to be an electrician. I have attached a picture of the switched outlet. If anyone in the trade has any advice that would be great...

Thanks!

 

[Gooch]

Twice today I have lost power in the MBR of the house. The entire bedroom is on one circuit, with one switched outlet. There is also a ceiling fan on the circuit.

The first time it happened the ceiling fan, one light bulb, a 32 inch LCD tv were on and I turned on the xbox and about 3-4 seconds after turning on the xbox all of those devices lost power. The circuit breaker did not trip and the ceiling fan continued to work. After about 45 minutes everything came back on.

I unplugged everything, flipped the breaker off, and pulled the faceplates on the switch and the four outlets to see if there were any visible issues (or if I could feel any heat), and turned the same items back on. The issue happened again. Again, nothing is visible or feels hot to the touch near any of the switches or outlets.

The house is a little over two years old, just outside of the electrical warranty (of course). Any thoughts on what this could be? An outlet or switch dying and killing the circuit? Not sure I understand why it would just be the 1 switched outlet and the other three outlets going out while the ceiling fan stays on, but I don't even pretend to be an electrician. I have attached a picture of the switched outlet. If anyone in the trade has any advice that would be great...

Thanks!

make sure all the connections in the switch box are tight, I'm assuming the homerun from the panel goes there, so it might be tied tight to the switch that feeds the fan but not to the switch for the outlet and the feed for the outlets.

also whats up with the screw on the outlet in the picture?

 

[mrb]

i see builder grade back stabbed receptacles. with the power off and verified off, give each wire a good hard yank and see if any come out.

edit: do this to all devices in the circuit.

 

[Milton Shaw]

Change all those back stabbed outlets, The better outlets are just $1 or so in bulk, the whole house probably has those and for less than 100$ you can fix all of them before you have a fire. Change switches also, just cut the main and spend a Saturday morning making your house safe. It will be the best 100$ you could spend on your house.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Worlds cheapest quality receptacles. In addition, looks like a lot of wires in one little box.

Charles

 

[Crizzle]

No dice on the backstab connections, they are all "secure".

 

[mrb]

pull out the switches and post a picture of that

 

[Crizzle]

See attached. I'm completely out of my depth of knowledge at this point when it comes to electrical.

 

[Crizzle]

Switches here were new work right after we moved in because the ceiling fan wasn't run. So we had the company that did all of the electrical in the first palce come out and run the ceiling fan/light and moutn the fan so *** not to void the warranty.

 

[mrb]

ok the switch you pulled out, there shouldnt be bare copper like that on the red and black stuck in the back of the switch. Can you push them in further, or were they stripped too far? Is that the switch for the switched outlet?

 

[Crizzle]

Yes, that is the switch for the switched outlet, and I am not able to push them in any further.

 

[mrb]

ok see the red and black wire coming off that switch that go into the same romex cable? those go to the outlet you pictured first. The black wire is hot all the time and also feeds outlets downstream from the pictured one. The supply comes into that switch via the black wire stuck in the back of it that is jumpered from the middle switch. Pull the other 2 switches out and check for loose connections everywhere. Ill have more for you once you report back. Make sure you are being safe and doing this with the circuit off.

 

[EricS]

Along with to much exposed copper,the unused terminal screws should be scewed down.Try and find a book 'Wiring a House' by Rex Cauldwell and as suggested look at replacing or at least going through and checking all the connections.A vacuum cleaner wouldn't hurt in some of those boxes.As a reference the black wire on the middle plug is what all the connections should look like.

Eric

Just wondering why there is a ground-what is it connected to? two black wires and a red wire. Shouldn't there be a hot going in and a switch leg going out and that's it?

 

[mrb]

the ground goes to the ground screw on the switch (you have to do that now) hot in, switch leg out, there is also a hot out. the tract home builders jump from device to device instead of wire nut and pigtails as it saves a ton of time and helps with box fill.

 

[MrMark]

How do you jump from device to device without pigtailing? Just curious. Are you talking about the stab in and stab out method? The ground has no stab, though.

 

[rburke65]

Never use the "stab' push ins on the back of the switch or outlet. Always use the screw connections, wrapping the wire clockwise around the screws. Buy a bok and read....Home Depot and others have them.

 

[ishiboo]

How do you jump from device to device without pigtailing? Just curious. Are you talking about the stab in and stab out method? The ground has no stab, though.

You strip off a small section in the middle of the wire, wrap it around the screw and the wire continues unbroken to the next device. The first strip you just "move" the insulation enough to get it on the screw, so it is still fully insulated between devices.

 

[EricS]

the ground goes to the ground screw on the switch (you have to do that now) hot in, switch leg out, there is also a hot out. the tract home builders jump from device to device instead of wire nut and pigtails as it saves a ton of time and helps with box fill.

Thanks for the info...I'm a first year in British Columbis(just enough to know I can be dangerous).
Can. Elec. Code 4-034(4) requires 'pigtailing' here,...yes I do realize there are variations between countries but Canada and the USA do share similarities.To me it looked like sloppy work/not up to code.
As mentioned don't use the stab meathod...just 'cause you can doesn't mean you should.

Eric

 

[MrMark]

You strip off a small section in the middle of the wire, wrap it around the screw and the wire continues unbroken to the next device. The first strip you just "move" the insulation enough to get it on the screw, so it is still fully insulated between devices.

Thanks for the explanation. I don't see how that is legal. The wire cannot be wrapped over itself under a screw; at the very least it is hack work.

 

[mrb]

Thanks for the explanation. I don't see how that is legal. The wire cannot be wrapped over itself under a screw; at the very least it is hack work.

the wire doesnt go over itself. the wire goes around the screw in a shape similar to the ohm symbol. its fine. the way the OPs devices are jumpered is theyre using both the backstab and side screw with a seperate jumper wire between devices.

i jump between devices all the time but only with industrial grade devices (such as HBL5252 receptacle) with pressure plate terminals that have two holes per terminal.

 

[Aceman]

If you're over your head, call an electrician. Most of the time we can usually find and fix the problem in under an hour. A service call for something like this isn't that expensive...

Nine times out of ten it's a loose backstab.

 

[mrb]

what ended up happening here?

 

[Crizzle]

what ended up happening here?

Sorry for the delay. Had a family friend who is a IBEW electrician come out and look it over. The middle switch quit working. Replaced it with a new one and everything is good to go (minus the cheap backstab outlets that will be a winter project).