Circuit Not Energizing

[BuickBoy]

Hi,

Our kitchen circuit currently has no electrons flowing.

Was hoping to brainstorm as to what of could be. DMM is at the other house... :-(

1970's home with no GFI. Bought and installed new breaker. Going to inspect duplexes for shorts...

Also, going to swap breakers in the box in case the new one I got is DOA.

Further ideas?

TiA

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[pattenp]

First go get your multimeter from the other house and start at the breaker panel on that circuit and move out from there to find where the power dies.

 

[BuickBoy]

I know, I know. That will take a few hours... may e I will worry about it in a few days if I can't stumble upon it today.

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[sberry]

Buy another tester.

 

[pattenp]

I know, I know. That will take a few hours... may e I will worry about it in a few days if I can't stumble upon it today.

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Stumble upon it! You can use the wet finger tester.

 

[pentavolvo]

can get a 10 dollar meter at hardware store

 

[BuickBoy]

Problem is not in the breaker box. Going to wait and pick up the meter. Only other thought is to start swapping duplexes with a known good from another location... silly to do that. I will just wait.

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[Zeke]

All you need is a non contact voltage tester.

Everyone should have one of these. In your case, just follow the wire in the wall to the first outlet, then the 2nd and so on. The only problem you might encounter is where the line and load run next to each other before splitting. Most outlets are at 12" and most wire is run at about 2-2.5' off the floor. As you go down the wall and pass over an outlet and lose the signal, that outlet is suspect. It may show hot in the plug, but the load side is open and not feeding the next outlet.

Of course switches and ceiling boxes need a different technique. But it all comes down to a hot feed from the panel. It should be easy to determine whether the wire leaving the panel is hot.

Not long ago I recommended this tool to someone having the same issue. He found a break midway between 2 outlets where a screw had penetrated the cable. Walking along, he lost the signal and went to work right there.

 

[Milton Shaw]

Some of those are more sensitive than others. You also need a meter to check and see if the circuit is hot but missing the neutral. Those are even harder to track down. Fluke's 179 I think is the one that has a very sensitive voltage tester for checking wires in the wall. It will track wires 8 to 10 inches from the wall in the high sensitive setting. If the neutral is broken but hot is present to track it down plug something like a hair dryer in turned on and then the signal will be double from the end until you find the open and then the signal will be half. Broken neutrals are a lot harder to track down. So make sure you are checking for missing hot or missing neutral.

 

[Diffident]

It's probably the neutral. Since most shackers only stab wires in outlets, I'd check those first.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Could be the stabs on one of the outlets! Seen those go bad many times and it can be a pain to find which one it is as they can have an intermittent short!

 

[sberry]

Could be the stabs on one of the outlets! Seen those go bad many times and it can be a pain to find which one it is as they can have an intermittent short!

Actually it would be open circuit.

 

[Gary S]

Actually it would be open circuit.

Correct. Most people have no idea what an electrical short is. A short would trip the breaker. An open circuit leaves you with no power.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Actually it would be open circuit.

You're right! I dunno why I said short! I shorted wires all the time in my high school(10+ years ago) electrical class. It was an experiment and I remember resetting breakers after the sparks!

 

[Speedy Petey]

All you need is a non contact voltage tester.

Well, it's nice to have one of those, but it is certainly NOT the only tester one needs.

BuickBoy, I agree with the others, either wait to get the tester from the other house or buy a new one. Trying to troubleshoot anything electrical without a tester is futile and dangerous.

 

[Zeke]

Well, it's nice to have one of those, but it is certainly NOT the only tester one needs.

BuickBoy, I agree with the others, either wait to get the tester from the other house or buy a new one. Trying to troubleshoot anything electrical without a tester is futile and dangerous.

Of course not. But it works quickly. I'm thinking you can trace the hot even if a neutral is open. No way to trace a neutral unless you energize it, but the neutrals should be right there with the hot wires.

Sure, if there is a break in the neutral in between devices, that is a tough one. Probably happens in less than 1% of troubleshooting.

Another note: I like my non contact tester because if I put my circuit tracer in a circuit and kill the breaker, there is always a chance that the box has a 2nd circuit live or is backfed. I like to know those things before even removing screws.

 

[jbberns]

Of course not. But it works quickly. I'm thinking you can trace the hot even if a neutral is open. No way to trace a neutral unless you energize it, but the neutrals should be right there with the hot wires.

Sure, if there is a break in the neutral in between devices, that is a tough one. Probably happens in less than 1% of troubleshooting.

Another note: I like my non contact tester because if I put my circuit tracer in a circuit and kill the breaker, there is always a chance that the box has a 2nd circuit live or is backfed. I like to know those things before even removing screws.

1% ??? I'd say a lot more than that.

 

[Speedy Petey]

1% ??? I'd say a lot more than that.

Having a break in the middle of a cable run? I'd say way less than 1%.
I've seen it exactly ONCE in over 25 years, and I do a lot of troubleshooting.

 

[OccupantRJ]

I had houses in four counties, and I learned real quick to carry a VOM and electrical tool pouch with me at all times. I have bought tools several times to do repairs at a location, as it was cheaper than the gas to get back there, much less the time involved. It took a trip of 4-1/2 hours to go to every location on one day. Some tools are cheap, relative to gas these days.

 

[RECox286]

"Testers ? We don't need no stinking testers. Ha, ha ha ha !"

Sometimes you just gotta use what you've got.

If you have a simple light bulb in a simple socket you can do simple

tests. Use a small table lamp, or a night light that you may already

have and start plugging it in to the receptacles to see if there is any

power. A setup like this can be also be jury rigged so you can 'stab'

things like breakers, and switches, etc, just as you would do with any

volt meter or neon test lamp.

Uncle Bob

 

[jbberns]

Having a break in the middle of a cable run? I'd say way less than 1%.
I've seen it exactly ONCE in over 25 years, and I do a lot of troubleshooting.

Bad connection of the neutral is what I was meaning. Maybe I read it wrong.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

If a broken neutral is suspected, u can unplug everything on that circuit, disconnect the hot and neutral, and connect the neutral to the breaker. Just remember to switch it all back when done!