Circuit size for Welder ?

[Marctrees]

Wiring a new pole building shop, want to pull the run for future wire feed small welder.

I will be buying the smallest Miller, Hobart, ? that needs 220v.

Like maybe a Handler 185 IIRC, or in that size range.

I have not looked at them lately, but that is what I had.. just wanna get similar size/ price.

Again, IIRC... in my previous shop, ..I'm pretty sure it was #10 wire w a 30 A breaker.

Distance to panel will be 40'.

So, I have a roll of 10-2 NMB.

Can I use that.. and put it on a 30 ?

Even though my machine budget will be around $800, I do not want to restrict myself within that price range.

What I mean to say is.. I want an outlet that will power most any machine around $800 -1k.

At the same time, if #10 is fine for that range of machine, I want to use what I have.. not needlessly buy different wire.

It's always about limited $.

Marc

 

[sberry]

A 10/30 is ideal for those machines. The 10/2 you have is the wire.

 

[matt_i]

I google searched "hobart handler 185 input amperage" and found this related discussion.

https://weldtalk.hobartwelders.com/...49782-hobart-handler-190-breaker-panel-wiring

 

[Milton Shaw]

Spend a little extra and put in wire for 50 amp, that way you can later run about any size welder you want to get. Do it with 10 gauge and withing a few years you will be replacing it for larger. All shops needs grow as you gain more skills and larger capacity wiring is always needed in the future. Put in other 240 volt circuits if you are closing the walls up you will eventually need them.

 

[TRWham]

Even a rich Scout is thrifty. Your 10/2 cable is more than enough for a welder of this class (around 200 A output like a Miller 211 or Hobart 210). You could likely run even smaller wire if you have it. Welders are covered by Article 630 of NFPA 70 and have special allowances for amperage because a welder's limited duty cycle and inherent protection prevent overheating the wires that feed it.

 

[sberry]

A 10 is good for all but heavy 250A wire feeds, good for anything that comes with 50 factory cord and plugs. These other machines come with a 12 cord as does 180 class. The dvi units with the adapters come with 14. In this case he already has wire, perfect place to use it vs let it sit on the shelf. If he would get a buzzer can change the breaker. The 180 class he is looking at can use 30 to 50A breakers,,,, on a 10 cable.
Hobarts new stick units are now all inverters. The big incentive for used is really the little DC buzzers, they can be found some places cheap and are very good machines.

 

[dogdog]

It's a 140AMP welder, you'll needed a minimujm 1/0 not 10/2 wire...

 

[Stuart in MN]

It's a 140AMP welder, you'll needed a minimujm 1/0 not 10/2 wire...

You're looking at the output amps, not the supply amps.

 

[Marctrees]

Milton - This will be my last Hurrah.. and the shop is all open so future Guy can run new line no prob.

10-2 NMB on a 30 breaker it is then.

Thank you all

Marc

 

[sberry]

That makes for a tailor made circuit for them. It gives them all the help it can from the wire, its 2 code sizes bigger than it needs to be for them, its one size larger than the cord on a buzzer.
No one really thinks the code minimum is a great idea in this case. Most code wire size is adequate, this is but there is some performance loss depending on length and going up the next size allows for some margin and adds 10 volts to the input. The difference between 10 and 12 is minor but between 14 and 12 quite a bit. Also allows some fudge room for duty cycle and a pinch to the top end.
The machine wont know the difference at 100 ft of 10 or at the panel. They really are small machines and the challenge isn't to turn them down but to wring every drop from the top end. And,,, in a crisis the breaker may be changed to 50 and small machine can still be used on it too.
As for safety the 10 will support use on a 250 feeder in most processes found in a small garage. In a mobile home trailer factory assembly line the machine may require the full 8 wire but it will use a different gas and even a 400A gun on it as well as larger welding wire. Not something that applies at home and,,,,, other equipment shouldn't be plugged in to welding circuits anyway. Oven are 4 wire and larger comps are hp rated, other 240v stuff is usually on a current limited circuit.

 

[dogdog]

It's a 140AMP welder, you'll needed a minimujm 1/0 not 10/2 wire...

You're looking at the output amps, not the supply amps.

Just Kidding

 

[sberry]

If I got free wire will put them on 6 or 8. If I got free wire put them on a 10. Unless there is a compelling reason or it was super short if I got to buy wire buy 10. While some are legal on 12 in some cases I like 10, again, performance difference with the 50A machines, between 10 and 8 not such a leap.
Marc could go with 12 if he had to buy wire, but,, he has 10, wont h8urt a thing and will even future proof it to some extent.

 

[sberry]

I have ran buzzers from power poles in a yard from 10 doing midnight fabrication back in the day, ran them till they were near cinders, barely warms the wire and most of the time couldn't even feel it.

 

[Marctrees]

Ran the 10/2 today.

I am a one man shop, will use the same ckt for non cooincident welder and 5 hp 23 a Comp.

My previous habits are.. weld what needs to be welded....

THEN grind what needs grinding.

My previous shop was same way...

Never felt an inconvenience w that.

NO problem at all having one ckt w one recept and switch plugs just a few times/ project.

I weld just occasional projects.

Thank you again...

Soon I will be studying currently available new machines to replace my old Handler 185.

Plan on buying a bottle, want smallest 220 machine.. will never do over 3/8"... and ONLY for non life critical stuff like BBQ's... NO Trailer hitches, etc.

You can steer me on selection of new machine if you like.

Lean toward Miller, Hobart.. not chinese no matter how good the deal.. I don't care.

Marc

 

[brewchief]

Ran the 10/2 today.

I am a one man shop, will use the same ckt for non cooincident welder and 5 hp 23 a Comp.

Using the same circuit for a compressor adds some issues, to start with most plugs and receptacles aren't rated for more then 3hp. If you have the compressor post a pic of the motor tag.

Hobart handler 210 might be a good option, dual voltage input so it can be run on 120v if needed so it's pretty versatile.

 

[Marctrees]

Dual voltage is not an advantage to me.. I will never use the machine outside of it's home.

I will never pull the plug while running, not worried about a 30 a plug not being HP rated.

But thank you though for pointing it out.

My comp motor is 1 phase, 230, 23 a.

Marc