Circuitry Circus! (need some wiring advice)

[zappman]

Wiring Gremlins are infesting my build.
Still running only on temporary power (12/2 W/Ground Romex run over from my other garage ) connected to one of the lighting circuits, and all the other circuits wired to the service panel and breakers, I decided I wanted to power up the panel directly and check all the circuits one at a time. I pulled all the double (220V) breakers out of the service panel, I then proceeded to run the white lead of the 12/2 W/Ground (from the other building) to the service panel's neutral strap, the bare lead to the panels ground strap, (the ground rods not yet connected to this service panel) and the black lead to one of the service panels lugs, and then jumping that lug to the other side's lug.
The first circuit I flipped the breaker on and the front wall recepticals all powered up. Switching that breaker back off I switch on breaker (2). Much to my surprise, it snapped the breaker in the other garage the temp power was coming from.
In all, (6) out of the building's (11) circuits had problems. I have completely re-wired many a house and garage
in the past and never once had a problem with even a single circuit. Now out of the blue I have (6) malfunctioning circuits on the same building.
Even stranger is how some of the circuits malfunction. In one circuit the first couple recepticals check out fine. then the next will be dead. Or in another the switches for the overhead light recepticals will work correctly but then the last one on that circuit is always hot switched on or off. Still some circuits just snap the breaker at the other garage, like a dead short when I flip the breaker in this panel on.
A friend of mine asked if I was sure I had all of the recepticals wired with the white wires on the side of the receptical marked "white". I asked him what the hell he was talking about. It's alternating current, what difference should it make which way the current went through the receptical, especially with nothing plugged in to it. Though when I looked at the recepticals, to my surprise they do have a side marked "white".
Surely with all of the places I have wired in the past, I couldn't have just accidentally wired all of the recepticals white on the side marked "white". Plus I still don't see how it would matter even though it is marked that way. And certainly it couldn't be causing all of the different malfunctions I am encountering.
Can anyone give me an idea of what is going on with the circuits in this build? Even though the ground rods aren't connected to the service panel yet, the temp line feeding it from the other garage is hooked to this panels ground strap.
I am just not thinking to clearly on this wiring or something, because I can't make sense of what is happening differently to different circuits.

 

[dfiler2]

...and the black lead to one of the service panels lugs, and then jumping that lug to the other side's lug.

What do you mean by this? Not sure i understand, you're not running both hot wires to one hot wire are you?

 

[Stuff]

It sounds like you skipped the basics of electrical wiring and jumped to the advanced course. Go to one of the big box stores and get a copy of Wiring Simplified. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-Bender-Wiring-Simplified-40th-Edition-ERB-WS/100085271

 

[PCustoms]

Post pics.

BTW, outlets and plugs are polarized as a safety measure. Put the Neutral (white wire) where it is supposed to go.

 

[n8n]

...and the black lead to one of the service panels lugs, and then jumping that lug to the other side's lug.

What do you mean by this? Not sure i understand, you're not running both hot wires to one hot wire are you?

I'm assuming he's using a 240V panel but hasn't pulled the proper wire yet so is feeding both phases from the same 120V wire just to get it up and running. Nothing 240V fed from that panel will work but everything else should power up OK. Should be fine as long as he's feeding from a 20A breaker.

As to the other stuff, I would make sure none of the ground wires are touching any hot connections. Is a problem with porcelain lampholders with exposed screws, BTDT.

 

[404]

Please please get some books and read them. Wiring Simplified is good.

 

[rockwithjason]

you don't understand the difference between an equipment ground and a neutral. if you wire the neutral to the hot side and vice versa you can easily create a condition where the case of an appliance or tool will be engerzied and extreamly dangerous. get the books and read them

 

[kingchevy]

I can't figure out if this is a serious post or not. Are you saying that you've wired many houses and never realized that recepticals have designated sides for hot and neutral??

 

[bmxdad]

Using wire nuts? I was having an issue where one circuit was dead, but power was getting there.

Issue was was the wire nuts ... pushing the cover on the box was pulling a wire out. Once I figured how to prevent that, all was good.

 

[FullRaceMerc]

Yeah, it sounds like there is a hot touching ground or neutral somewhere down the line. Grab a continuity tester, with the power & all breakers off, & test between hot & neutral, then between hot & ground on each circuit. Trace down each one that shows continuity between hot & anything else until you find where they cross up. You'll find something down the line, a nicked wire entering a box, bare ground touching a black side screw, hot wire out of a wire nut, something. Look for signs of arcing, which might help pinpoint the cause.

You probably already know this, but also look for white & hot attached to the same side of the receptacle. They will short out across the little bar between the screws if they are. If you weren't watching the color code while attaching to the screws when putting them together, this might be more likely.

As for the white being on the wrong side, it is related to which side of the circuit is switched. Normally white is at 0 volts, while hot alternates between 110+ & 110-. It always measures 110v (108 to 125v typically) away from 0. You & whatever you are standing on are also normally at 0. Although you don't want to make a practice of touching bare white wires, 0 to 0 contact is less likely to light you up. If you look at the openings for the plug prongs in the receptacle you will see that the white side is wider than the hot side.

Equipment has the switch on the hot or narrow prong side of the plug. So if the receptacles are wired correctly the equipment isn't energized beyond the switch until it is turned on. It still works when wired backwards, but is not as safe when the switch is off. When it's backwards hot runs all the way thru windings & other components of equipment until it reaches the backside of the switch. You are more likely to get lit up when changing bulbs etc. when it's backwards.

If you look at the screws on the receptacle green is for ground, dark (Brass) is for hot, light (Silver) is for white.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Black power/black guy is always right
White guys are common or neutral/they get left out
Bare copper or green wires get ran into the ground

 

[zappman]

hey dfiler2 yes perhaps I should have been a little clearer on that. Though n8n caught what I was saying and explains it three replies down from yours. To be more detailed though:
I have the 12/2 W/Ground Romex coming in from the other garage for temporary power. (mostly a few lights) To test the circuits which were all wired into the service panel, I used it to temporarily power up the panel. I ran the white to the neutral bar, the bare to the ground bar, and the black to the lug that feeds the bar that the breakers snap to for feed. Normally bringing in real service there would be two 110V feeds. The second feeding the other side of the panel in opposite phase to give you 220V when you feed a double throw breaker from both bars. Because half of my 110V circuits that i wanted to test were on each bar. I pulled the 220V breakers out, and jumper-ed from the left bar to the right. With all single throw breakers, it would be the same as just doubling the length of one of the bars.

Stuff it does sorta sound that way doesn't it. Though that's not the case. As I said I have completely re-wired many a house and garage in the past and never once had a problem with even a single circuit. It is more apt to be that I am just completely missing the obvious in something I have done. What is throwing me though is that I seem to have different problems occurring with the different circuits. But thanks for the reply and the link.

PCustoms There are pics of the entire build up to almost current. (I've slacked a little this month or so) at: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=229132 with some of the wiring starting on page 2 and resuming on page 4. But there are lots of pics covering the whole project.
As for your comment "outlets and plugs are polarized" and "Put the Neutral (white wire) where it is supposed to go." It only took me checking 2 outlets to realize that I have always wired that way, just never thought of it as my friend put it "the white wires on the side of the receptical marked white" because I never noticed them marked. I learned it somewhere back around 40 years ago as "Black to Brass". So when I saw that the back of the receptical was marked "white" on the silver screw side, I knew that they were all wired that way.

Your assumption was dead on n8n. That is exactly what I was doing. having even pulled the double throw 220V breakers before doing it. Just to test the 110V circuits one at a time. And yes my temp power coming in by way of 12/2 w/Ground, it is fed via a 20A breaker from the other garage.
I also agree that I need to go through the boxes one at a time to make sure none of the ground wires are touching any hot connections. It has to be that or I somehow ran a screw through the line somewhere. Apparently on six different circuits though. (unbelievable)

I appreciate the concern 404 but although I guess I made it sound like I am attempting wiring in the dark, for the very first time, with no experience, I assure you that's not the case at all.

Yes rockwithjason I do understand the difference between a neutral and a ground. But thanks for the reply.

Well this was a serious post kingchevy although I apparently misrepresented the situation with my wording a bit. Yes I have wired many houses, garages, and a few commercial applications as well. I actually have always realized that recepticals have designated sides for hot as I learned it "Black to Brass" but never really thought about it much in terms beyond black leading the circuit.
It's not so much what I don't know, as what I am beginning to forget that troubles me these days. HA!

Hey there bmxdad we both seem to have opted for the 24 X 36 layout. It looks like your Basset Hounds enjoyed the demo of the old structure as much as you did too. Your right about the wire nuts as well. I have found the source of a dead short in one of the junction boxes caused by the wires backing out of the nut enough to make contact with ground. ARRGGGHHHH!!!!! Should have used a larger box in the first place. Hindsight......

Thank you FullRaceMerc for your thoughtful reply. I appreciate the time you gave it. I am sure I won't find the scenario where there is "white & hot attached to the same side of the receptacle". Although I do tend to let my mind wander into thinking about the next phase and not the one I am on, I still couldn't not pay attention to that extreme. Though "a nicked wire entering a box, bare ground touching a black side screw, hot wire out of a wire nut," are all sound probabilities. In fact a "hot wire out of a wire nut," has already surfaced as one of the circuit's malfunction. Five more to locate.
I did flip my multi-meter over to ohms and start checking one of the dead circuits. It has continuity part way so I am sure I will find the circuit open somewhere further down.
I will also track the continuity in the way you mentioned to find the crossing point in the circuits that seem to be shorted out. So thanks for that.
I appreciate your explanation of how equipment is switched on the hot side. Although I knew that it is, I never really thought about how it would be energizing the circuitry of the equipment if you broke the circuit on the way out, instead of on the way in. Just one of those things in life I always do a certain way (having been told that way) but never really thinking about the why.
Thanks again for your thoughtful reply.

Well zmaxmotorsports a rather racist way of putting it but a good way to remember it. Although "Black" and "Brass" both starting with a "B" so "Black to Brass" has always worked for me. It kind of leaves white to the other side. Because green, is rather new to the scene really. It wasn't around back in the days of knob and tube wiring. Do you think electricity was less safe back then?

Thank you again to all that took the time and replied.


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