Circular saw/corded

[Real1]

I posted a thread previously about vintage Skil saws and a particular model where I was looking for an armature. I admit it....I'm beat down on this. No longer is it 'fun' to pick up used vintage saws and salvage for extinct/unobtainium parts. I bought another used Skil in the same family hoping the armature was in better shape than mine. What I got were two identical armatures but the pinion gear hadn't been cut down like it was on my 6 1/2" saw. I'm done with this and Skil was always a hassle about parts on anything older than 5yrs......going all the way back to the 80's. B&D was the same on their power tools.

So I looked at other vintage saws like Milwaukee. Same story, NLA parts. As these companies change hands and consolidate they don't care about the older stuff. I would like something corded, (not sure I want a worm gear drive) and be able to get parts. I'm a 'burst' user....my Skil saw will sit in my truck for weeks, but then come out on a job requiring it and I'll use it to completion. Probably it sits more than it's used, but I use it now a lot at home.

Looking for recommendations of a sturdy, professional saw that I can get parts for. Love the vintage stuff, but like I said, it's beat me down on the parts issue.

Kevin

 

[The Cobbler]

sturdy, professional saw that I can get parts for.

unfortunate, but the way I see ir, parts are available today, but when stock runs out or the bean counters say it's taking up too much space and not enough turnover, they are no longer available

 

[Real1]

unfortunate, but the way I see ir, parts are available today, but when stock runs out or the bean counters say it's taking up too much space and not enough turnover, they are no longer available

I totally agree. There is no intention to stock parts for more than a few years. Corporations have sold the young lions that everything has a life span of about 5yrs and you should get rid of it and buy new.

So maybe the best thing is to buy new along with parts I think will wear out over time(that's backward logic in my mind). I'm not buying a new circular saw every five years or so. Most everything is Chinese-made. They have a BAD habit of under-lubing their bearings(even Milwaukee).....ask me how I know.

Kevin

 

[The Cobbler]

It's the society we live in. tools are no longer considered a life time investment, they are disposable items , and with the advent of battery, it's even more so . I have power tools that I bought in early/mid 80's that have been used tons, and some repairs like cords, bearings etc , but no way the tools we are buying today will still be usable in 40 yrs time .
Unrelated to tools, I was on a Zoom call for a volunteer charity group I work with... a newer board member ( really sharp & enthusiastic) made a comment, well, it's a consumable item, what will we get , 3 years max before we need a new one?
talking a computer with low usage .

 

[Real1]

Yeah, I hold on to old power tools, because they've always been repairable. But I'm not a machinist and I can't make unobtainium parts. This last round with the old Skil saw broke me. I'm not devoting what time I have left to scrounging for NOS parts. 15-20 yrs ago, yeah, it was a viable option. Not now.

I have an older HoleHawg and I could still get parts for that and did. Most people who invested in those didn't want to see them hit the landfills. I took some stitches on my face with that puppy up on a ladder once, overhead. Respect is earned with powerful tools like that.

Kevin

 

[The Cobbler]

I can relate, I have a corded Milwaukee 1/2 angle drill with bull low RPMs. nothing stops it, and dot let anything get in it's way . Actually I always try to prop it against a joist or stud if I can , and never have it travelling towards me, always away from me

 

[chevy.stroker]

Does the armature need to be turned? Have you talked to a local alternator rebuilder?

 

[RTM]

The good news is, cheap Milwaukee power tools are available at garage, estate and flea market sales. I have a whole bunch of them, none bought for more than $50, which should last me a lifetime, or I have lots of easy parts if they break, or just buy another cheapie. I've invested about $50 in a low mileage Sawzall, most I've spent on any of them.

There is a 77 some where in there. It will get treated the same as the MKE stuff.

 

[RoninB4]

What I got were two identical armatures but the pinion gear hadn't been cut down like it was on my 6 1/2" saw.

-May I ask exactly what needs to be "cut down" so it works properly? I'm a retired toolmaker/designer and I may be able to do this for you for nothing (ok... cost of shipping). I have machinery and some spare time, not fond of the disposable world we now live in either.

 

[Real1]

Does the armature need to be turned? Have you talked to a local alternator rebuilder?

Yes, the spiral drive shaft end. No electric rebuilders anymore here....the last one died about 15yrs ago.

Kevin

 

[rooster59]

Saw with a cord? Makita (MoPowah)

 

[Real1]

-May I ask exactly what needs to be "cut down" so it works properly? I'm a retired toolmaker/designer and I may be able to do this for you for nothing (ok... cost of shipping). I have machinery and some spare time, not fond of the disposable world we now live in either.

OK....so the two armatures I have are identical except for the spiral pinion drive ends. So I thought....oh this is easy, I'll just get a machine shop to turn down the larger pinion. But then I thought NO....when you make the spiral smaller in diameter, you'd have to recut the teeth as well, no?

If I could even find a shop here, it would be $100/hr and I'm not even sure they could do this correctly because they're not working on armatures.

Kevin

 

[The Cobbler]

I wonder if the shaft would press out of the armature without damaging it. I used to work in auto parts they also had a rebuild shop, I recall sometimes they would press different shafts in to an armature .

 

[Real1]

The good news is, cheap Milwaukee power tools are available at garage, estate and flea market sales. I have a whole bunch of them, none bought for more than $50, which should last me a lifetime, or I have lots of easy parts if they break, or just buy another cheapie. I've invested about $50 in a low mileage Sawzall, most I've spent on any of them.

There is a 77 some where in there. It will get treated the same as the MKE stuff.

This is exactly what I don't want to get into anymore; buying used, low-price vintage power tools to rob parts from. I'm old and know better. Unless something is low hr, it will have the same wear characteristics as the power tool I'm trying to repair. I'm over-hobbied as it is...not looking for more.

That old Milwaukee 6365 looks like it was a real workhorse. I'm sure one would last me the rest of my life, but I'm not buying four to make one. I checked for parts.....everything is completely NLA.

Kevin

 

[Real1]

I wonder if the shaft would press out of the armature without damaging it. I used to work in auto parts they also had a rebuild shop, I recall sometimes they would press different shafts in to an armature .

That's deep electric motor rebuilding ventures. No one is here anymore to do this. Ron has made a great offer if he's interested and we can work something out. Half of the spiral pinion sits in the gearbox, which means the unused portion could be what he gets his measurements from. In my past travels, I knew people who could cut gears, but they're retired or gone.

I guess it will depend on what I can find for another saw. I've got too much time into this Skil that I'll never get back. I can retire 'er if I can find another stout low-hr vintage saw. Porter Cable used to have fantastic circular saws.....guys died with them and they soldiered on to new owners. I never saw one cheap at a yard sale though.

Kevin

 

[RoninB4]

OK....so the two armatures I have are identical except for the spiral pinion drive ends. So I thought....oh this is easy, I'll just get a machine shop to turn down the larger pinion. But then I thought NO....when you make the spiral smaller in diameter, you'd have to recut the teeth as well, no?

If I could even find a shop here, it would be $100/hr and I'm not even sure they could do this correctly because they're not working on armatures.

Kevin

-I did a search for "spiral drive" and all I get is either game software or some real estate BS. Do you mean a worm drive? I'd have to see a photo. Re-cutting the teeth profiles will depend upon how much metal needs removing and whatever it engages to/with. If it engages with a spur or bevel gear it may be possible without re-cutting teeth. As for the $100 per hour.....let's see what's involved here first before bringing up the dirty subject of money. If it's a fairly simple mod of an hour or two the offer still stands. I can't estimate what I haven't seen or can't bring up in a search.

 

[Real1]

I can relate, I have a corded Milwaukee 1/2 angle drill with bull low RPMs. nothing stops it, and dot let anything get in it's way . Actually I always try to prop it against a joist or stud if I can , and never have it travelling towards me, always away from me

I know all the safety issues with these tools. My helper refused to climb the ladder and drill the holes for waste piping. So I snatched the tool outa his hand, threw caution to the wind, and got up on the ladder drilling overhead without thinking it through. Took ten stitches to my lip as the HoleHawg kicked back. I deserved it, but I should have fired him.

At least he learned what NOT to do on a ladder overhead with a HoleHawg.... maybe, or maybe he was too dumb.

Kevin

 

[Renegade1LI]

Sounds like you have a business? Isn't it cheaper to replace with new? I don't repair anything just replace. Time is too costly unless it's something simple it gets scrapped.

 

[Real1]

-I did a search for "spiral drive" and all I get is either game software or some real estate BS. Do you mean a worm drive? I'd have to see a photo. Re-cutting the teeth profiles will depend upon how much metal needs removing and whatever it engages to/with. If it engages with a spur or bevel gear it may be possible without re-cutting teeth. As for the $100 per hour.....let's see what's involved here first before bringing up the dirty subject of money. If it's a fairly simple mod of an hour or two the offer still stands. I can't estimate what I haven't seen or can't bring up in a search.

These type saw pinions that thrust into a gearbox....Skil made them straight-toothed or spiral-toothed. There doesn't seem to be any pattern/method as to what Skil engineers prefer. The spiral tooth pattern may be more resistant to breaking teeth with torque applied and stalling in the cut....I'm just guessing.

Let me see what I have for pics. Here is a pristine armature in the same family, but for a 7 1/4" Skil(5650). My saw is the 5625, a 6 1/2" saw. I'd show you the two ends together to illustrate the difference, but the 5625 is back together and helping me build a workbench tomorrow.

That space between where the spiral starts and the fan is where a ball bearing is pressed on.

Kevin

 

[The Cobbler]

I'm guessing the spiral is a smoother /quieter running saw in that the spiral pulls the gears tighter, where the strait flute can wobble more.

 

[Real1]

Sounds like you have a business? Isn't it cheaper to replace with new? I don't repair anything just replace. Time is too costly unless it's something simple it gets scrapped.

I'm now in the nebulous space of semi-retired. I've about finished my garage shop and will be starting a 'repair clinic'. I've been fixing everybody's mechanical/electrical stuff most of my life...thought I'd charge for it. I'm doing a lot of other stuff too like small engines, furniture repair, vintage clock repair...even vintage appliances and vintage lamps...lots more. More like 'call me/show me' and I'll see if a repair can be made.

I even restore vintage vacs....specifically Electrolux tanks(better known as 'canister' vacs, but that's actually incorrect). I came into an old dealer who had died and his son had 45yrs worth of Electrolux stuff. Now I have 45yrs worth of Electrolux stuff.....lol!

Kevin

 

[Real1]

I'm guessing the spiral is a smoother /quieter running saw in that the spiral pulls the gears tighter, where the strait flute can wobble more.

Possibly....good call. I suspect they also respond to high torque differently when you stall in the cut.

Kevin

 

[The Cobbler]

^^^ that sounds interesting.
I am recently retired or semi retired. I love to just tinker with stuff. whether its lucrative or not .partly why I stole the quote in my signature line

 

[Burt Shaver]

Maybe new would be the most cost efficient avenue? I’m a contractor, purchased a corded Dewalt circular saw in 2009, still using it today. I think I paid around 109.00 for it,

 

[Wamsutta]

I'm assuming you don't like the Skil Wormdrive but I can't fathom why. I have two of them and they're fantastic.

 

[RoninB4]

These type saw pinions that thrust into a gearbox....Skil made them straight-toothed or spiral-toothed. There doesn't seem to be any pattern/method as to what Skil engineers prefer. The spiral tooth pattern may be more resistant to breaking teeth with torque applied and stalling in the cut....I'm just guessing.

Let me see what I have for pics. Here is a pristine armature in the same family, but for a 7 1/4" Skil(5650). My saw is the 5625, a 6 1/2" saw. I'd show you the two ends together to illustrate the difference, but the 5625 is back together and helping me build a workbench tomorrow.

That space between where the spiral starts and the fan is where a ball bearing is pressed on.

Kevin

-This engages a spur/bevel gear? Why does the spiral need cutting? Does it fit through a hole or is the engagement with ____ too tight/interference? No I wouldn't want to recut the profile on the spiral, it can be done but I wouldn't want to do it. Is there another option besides cutting the spiral? How much material needs to be removed? The OD of the spiral means little, it's the engagement mesh/backlash to the next drive component that's important here.

 

[Real1]

Maybe new would be the most cost efficient avenue? I’m a contractor, purchased a corded Dewalt circular saw in 2009, still using it today. I think I paid around 109.00 for it,

You're probably correct....that's why I posted for recommendations. If it can last ten years, that's probably good enough. But I'd like to keep searching for a low-hr vintage saw too.

DeWalt was a different company ten years ago and different yet ten years before that. A lot of my newer power tools were/are Makita and I bought pro stuff that was crazy expensive then, but they're still working now and there are still parts.

In my business, I had Sawzalls by the dozens. I watched them decline over the yrs...China made them cheaper.

Kevin

 

[Real1]

-This engages a spur/bevel gear? Why does the spiral need cutting? Does it fit through a hole or is the engagement with ____ too tight/interference? No I wouldn't want to recut the profile on the spiral, it can be done but I wouldn't want to do it. Is there another option besides cutting the spiral? How much material needs to be removed? The OD of the spiral means little, it's the engagement mesh/backlash to the next drive component that's important here.

There is a big, what I call 'bull gear' that the spiral pinion engages with on the inside of the gearbox. That has the drive shaft for the blade. That's it...nothing more in the gearbox. The two 'bull gears' (Model 5625 & 5650) have completely different diameters and mesh. So you'd be turning down the larger pinion to make the smaller one. Maybe it can't even be done effectively....I dunno. Maybe the mesh difference is impossible to negotiate with the bull gear. I can see on the smaller one where they recut the original shaft for a smaller application and bull gear. I just assumed this could be duplicated, but I'm talking through my hat having never done this or been a part of it.

Most likely this is a deep rabbit hole and the saw is now assembled and back in duty. If I want to continue with this venture, I'd try to find a low hr 5625 and use my old girl as a parts nurse. In the meantime, I find a different marque with surviving parts available.....or something new(*gasps*).

Kevin

 

[Burt Shaver]

You're probably correct....that's why I posted for recommendations. If it can last ten years, that's probably good enough. But I'd like to keep searching for a low-hr vintage saw too.

DeWalt was a different company ten years ago and different yet ten years before that. A lot of my newer power tools were/are Makita and I bought pro stuff that was crazy expensive then, but they're still working now and there are still parts.

In my business, I had Sawzalls by the dozens. I watched them decline over the yrs...China made them cheaper.

Kevin

You are correct about Dewalt being a different company now then 10 years ago, I purchased a Dewalt table saw around the same time 2009, bought another, same model I believe around 2017 with the intention of starting another crew.

 

[Burt Shaver]

You are correct about Dewalt being a different company now then 10 years ago, I purchased a Dewalt table saw around the same time 2009, bought another, same model I believe around 2017 with the intention of starting another crew.

Whoops, I guess I pressed post reply by mistake. Anyways, many components that were steel or aluminum in 2009 where plastic in 2017

 

[Real1]

You are correct about Dewalt being a different company now then 10 years ago, I purchased a Dewalt table saw around the same time 2009, bought another, same model I believe around 2017 with the intention of starting another crew.

My friend down in SoCal just bought a new DeWalt table saw for his ranch. He's not a contractor, but his rationale for buying was how it was rated on Amazon. I think that might have been a big mistake for him. Hopefully, its use will be somewhat limited and he'll get some yrs out of it. It looks questionable to me.

I bought a first-gen ShopSmith 10ER that is as old as I am. I restored it....it is amazing and the quality is over the top. Each generation after this one was a step down in quality. The company sold many times after the German inventor sold out in the late 50's. It's all I need for my shop. Room is at a premium and I can't set up a real woodworking shop...nor would I want to. Too many other things to fix & repair.

Kevin

 

[four.cycle]

I have a 7-1/14" SKIL with a 1/2" arbor shaft and a toasted drive-end bearing. Runs fine. Shrieks something awful when you turn it on. (old school aluminum alloy housing)
We used the other one.
Might be good for parts if you want to spring for shipping.

 

[Real1]

I have a 7-1/14" SKIL with a 1/2" arbor shaft and a toasted drive-end bearing. Runs fine. Shrieks something awful when you turn it on. (old school aluminum alloy housing)
We used the other one.
Might be good for parts if you want to spring for shipping.

I don't think so, but thanks for the offer. The armature pinion/mesh on the Skil 7 1/4" versus the Skil 6 1/2" is different. That's what all the previous ballyhoo is about. I have both armatures; 7 1/4" & 6 1/2" and they differ. Nothing is gained for me by another 7 1/4' armature.

Not to mention that when you leave the Skil family of my saw, armatures can vary greatly.

Kevin

 

[Hakeem]

The armature for the 6 1/2” skilsaw is pretty hard to find, given that it’s a lower volume saw than the model77. This website, based in the UK, appears to have one:

F 012 582 50A Spares and Parts for SKIL HD 5825 (CIRCULAR SAWS) - Power Tool Spares

www.powertoolspares.com

As far as new saws, I’ve had the new mag77 for a few years now and like it. It is really light and comes with the skyhook installed, and haven’t had any reliability issues. The Makita hypoid saw would probably be my second choice.

I suspect any new saw would outlast you given your semi-retired status. Sure, they’re not as well built as the older ones but they’re not quite that bad either… the new skilsaws, makitas, rigids last for years on framing crews, and they typically get “retired” by falling of the roof, etc, not from wearing out.

 

[RoninB4]

There is a big, what I call 'bull gear' that the spiral pinion engages with on the inside of the gearbox. That has the drive shaft for the blade. That's it...nothing more in the gearbox. The two 'bull gears' (Model 5625 & 5650) have completely different diameters and mesh. So you'd be turning down the larger pinion to make the smaller one. Maybe it can't even be done effectively....I dunno. Maybe the mesh difference is impossible to negotiate with the bull gear. I can see on the smaller one where they recut the original shaft for a smaller application and bull gear. I just assumed this could be duplicated, but I'm talking through my hat having never done this or been a part of it.

Most likely this is a deep rabbit hole and the saw is now assembled and back in duty. If I want to continue with this venture, I'd try to find a low hr 5625 and use my old girl as a parts nurse. In the meantime, I find a different marque with surviving parts available.....or something new(*gasps*).

Kevin

-Haven't seen photos but from what you're describing the shaft for one or the other would have to be re-located farther away from each other to accommodate the larger size and maintain the proper engagement/backlash. Just about anything IS possible but not very practical. I'd be inclined to agree with you that this sounds like a deep rabbit hole. If so, sorry that I can't help. The disposable nature of products of late just irks me as well.

 

[Real1]

-Haven't seen photos but from what you're describing the shaft for one or the other would have to be re-located farther away from each other to accommodate the larger size and maintain the proper engagement/backlash. Just about anything IS possible but not very practical. I'd be inclined to agree with you that this sounds like a deep rabbit hole. If so, sorry that I can't help. The disposable nature of products of late just irks me as well.

I think it's a deep rabbit hole not worth pursuing. I'll continue to look for the correct armature and just use the saw. In the interim, I'll buy something else. The Skil Mag77 and the Makita 5007 iterations are well-spoken with framing crews.

It's unlikely I'd wear out either one of those saws. Just by their very nature of use circular saws had to be tough; on and off, on and off, plunge cutting, throwing them around, etc. That would be the last tool professionally I'd expect to see cheapened, but here we are.

Thanks for the offer though and the discourse!

Kevin

 

[Real1]

The armature for the 6 1/2” skilsaw is pretty hard to find, given that it’s a lower volume saw than the model77. This website, based in the UK, appears to have one:

F 012 582 50A Spares and Parts for SKIL HD 5825 (CIRCULAR SAWS) - Power Tool Spares

www.powertoolspares.com

As far as new saws, I’ve had the new mag77 for a few years now and like it. It is really light and comes with the skyhook installed, and haven’t had any reliability issues. The Makita hypoid saw would probably be my second choice.

I suspect any new saw would outlast you given your semi-retired status. Sure, they’re not as well built as the older ones but they’re not quite that bad either… the new skilsaws, makitas, rigids last for years on framing crews, and they typically get “retired” by falling of the roof, etc, not from wearing out.

That's not the right armature for the 5625 or the correct part #. Even in the drawn illustration, it is not correct(straight pinion teeth, threaded end, longer shaft). But thanks for looking!

Kevin

 

[Hakeem]

Wow yeah my mistake, I saw “6 1/2 skilsaw” and assumed it was the worm drive. The part number is 2610327517, yea? If so, I couldn’t find anything. Even the armature for the 6 1/2 worm drive is hard to come by.

I respect your desire to keep your saw going and hope you find your part. If you haven’t done so, perhaps consider setting an alert on eBay to notify you whenever this part is listed. You can find directions for this here:

How to set alerts for new listing?

I would like to set search criteria that when met, ebay sends me a message. Such as.. 2oz six queens silver coin. Anytime someone lists a item meeting my description, I get a message. How do I do that?

community.ebay.com

 

[Real1]

Wow yeah my mistake, I saw “6 1/2 skilsaw” and assumed it was the worm drive. The part number is 2610327517, yea? If so, I couldn’t find anything. Even the armature for the 6 1/2 worm drive is hard to come by.

I respect your desire to keep your saw going and hope you find your part. If you haven’t done so, perhaps consider setting an alert on eBay to notify you whenever this part is listed. You can find directions for this here:

How to set alerts for new listing?

I would like to set search criteria that when met, ebay sends me a message. Such as.. 2oz six queens silver coin. Anytime someone lists a item meeting my description, I get a message. How do I do that?

community.ebay.com

Yes, that's the correct part #. I even posted that above a while back.

I've done that on eBay for stuff I've searched for forever, but never got a notification. I then assumed you had to go in there and check periodically.....which sort of defeats the purpose.

One armature did go through eBay about a yr ago. Like $89, but add shipping and my state adds tax. So over $100. In hindsight, I think that was another rabbit hole. I'm not THAT attached to the saw and it's in very used shape. Even fell out of the back of my truck in a residential neighborhood. Nothing broke...straightened the bottom plate and she's back for more....lol. Try that maneuver with a 'todays' saw.

I may start going to yard sales again....I've found more stuff that way than on eBay and @Craiglist prices. Now that the saw is working again with new bearings, the gearbox cleaned, and regreased, I think I'll start searching for a newer one or a spectacular low-hr vintage saw. If I could find a low-hr Makita 5007F, I'm down.

Here's a pic of 'er....no duct tape, I'm not one of those guys.


Kevin

 

[BlackandDeckerSawCat]

I posted a thread previously about vintage Skil saws and a particular model where I was looking for an armature. I admit it....I'm beat down on this. No longer is it 'fun' to pick up used vintage saws and salvage for extinct/unobtainium parts. I bought another used Skil in the same family hoping the armature was in better shape than mine. What I got were two identical armatures but the pinion gear hadn't been cut down like it was on my 6 1/2" saw. I'm done with this and Skil was always a hassle about parts on anything older than 5yrs......going all the way back to the 80's. B&D was the same on their power tools.

So I looked at other vintage saws like Milwaukee. Same story, NLA parts. As these companies change hands and consolidate they don't care about the older stuff. I would like something corded, (not sure I want a worm gear drive) and be able to get parts. I'm a 'burst' user....my Skil saw will sit in my truck for weeks, but then come out on a job requiring it and I'll use it to completion. Probably it sits more than it's used, but I use it now a lot at home.

Looking for recommendations of a sturdy, professional saw that I can get parts for. Love the vintage stuff, but like I said, it's beat me down on the parts issue.

Kevin

So you're the one that bought that 5650 on eBay? I was hoping to buy that one because my 5650 field was burned out but the saw is in better shape cosmetically than the eBay model. I guess I'll never find another then. I have a whole slew of Skil saws, I have a 552, 553 and 4 554 saws, as well as a 5625, 5650 and 866, 867, and 868. All of these saws are the same, except for the dimensional differences in parts (blade guards, gear ratios, etc.).