Circulator pump ?

[HiItsMeJimmy]

I have 8 loops on my floor heat system. When I layed them out i tried to stay between 275-300 feet per loop. Well that must not have worked out like I planned. My calculations read 1GPM per loop and 17 Ft of head. I'm using a TACO 009 pump. Im getting .25 gpm out of 2 zones which i remember are my shortest. the system is working but I imagine it would be more efficient if I could get each loop to 1GPM. The others zones are even below that. Do I need to increase size of pump to say a TACO 014 due to the high head?? Or is this were a variable speed pump comes into play?? Any help would be appreciated

 

[anthony666]

Building is 40x64x14
R-30 in ceiling with 6 inches of open cell on walls
2" XPS under 6" concrete perimeter insulated as well
8- 1/2" -300ft. runs 12" spacing, 6" around perimeter with adjustable reising manifold.
180000BTU Hardy outdoor wood burner with 45% glycol
3 insulated 12x12 doors
OO9 circulator pump at boiler and 009 circulator at manifold
1GPM through each circuit
3/4 feeds from boiler
Honeywell Mixing valve @113* Return water 83*
Radiant thermostat WITHOUT floor probe.:

you wanna make it efficient; here's some suggestions 1.25" feeds from the boiler .. primary secondary setup .. get a slab sensing thermostat

 

[HiItsMeJimmy]

009 pump is fine??? Feed size is my problem???

 

[HiItsMeJimmy]

I've got insulated lines roughly 40 feet from boiler buried 4 ft deep... woild be a pia to go with 1 1/4...

 

[anthony666]

you need to think of the feeders like a highway with trucks full of heat driving along to dump the heat at your slab .. right now you have a dirt road with bumper to bumper semis crawling along .. 3/4" pex is only good for 60k btu's .. until you get that bottle neck fixed it doesn't really make a lot of difference farting around with your manifold trying to get more flow

 

[HiItsMeJimmy]

I've got 40 feet of 3/4 pex running from boiler to building. Then 80 feet running from building to manifold indoor. That woudlnt be a problem to change. Would replacing the 80 feet with 1 1/4 make much of a difference??

 

[HiItsMeJimmy]

garage called for roughly 86000 btu.. 1 1/4 seems overkill... Never heard of anyone on side running 1 1/4

 

[HiItsMeJimmy]

i really screwed this one up........ I'll have thousands digging up insulated pex and buying new lines.....

 

[HiItsMeJimmy]

system operates well as it is. I can keep a constant 70* air temp. Was just trying to figure out a way to increase flow in each circuit.. guess my circulator pump idea wouldnt work

 

[Sureshot]

If it works good I wouldn't sweat it. Maybe it will take a little longer to heat the slab if you let it cool off but big deal.

 

[stingry]

009 pump is fine??? Feed size is my problem???

Correct. Anthony hit the nail on the head. Also, I'm assuming that the 120' of 3/4" PEX is one way from the boiler to the manifold, meaning that you actually have 240' of PEX, coming and going. Correct? Anyway, no matter, If its working, live with it. I looked at the Taco pump curves for the 00 series of circulator pumps and the 007 is the best available in this series at the head you are pumping against. According to the pump curves, if you are flowing 1-2 GPM total, your head loss is approx. 32-34 ft.

Cheers
Steve

 

[HiItsMeJimmy]

Isn't that amount of head beyond limits of 007.. I also have a 009 at boiler..

 

[HiItsMeJimmy]

If I could squeeze at least 3-4 more GPM out of a pump that could handle that amount of head would help... when you have 2 pump in line do you device head between pumps?

 

[HiItsMeJimmy]

Could I leave the 009 at boiler and put a 007 at manifold to give me increased flow rate??

 

[stingry]

Isn't that amount of head beyond limits of 007.. I also have a 009 at boiler..

My bad, I meant 009. Yes, max head on the 007 is about 10 ft. I am confused about the two pumps, do you have a primary/secondary system? It would help if you described the system in detail.

Cheers
Steve

 

[HiItsMeJimmy]

I'm using a hardy outdoor wood burner. Burner had a 009 on it when I bought it. Was told one circular or would not be sufficient so I added another 009 at manifold. Burner is only heating my garage floor at current time.

 

[stingry]

I'm using a hardy outdoor wood burner. Burner had a 009 on it when I bought it. Was told one circular or would not be sufficient so I added another 009 at manifold. Burner is only heating my garage floor at current time.

So if I understand this correctly, you have a 009 circulator at the boiler pumping hot water from the boiler thru approx. 120' of 3/4" PEX to the second 009 pump which then enters the manifold and then into the 8 infloor circuits and then back to the boiler. Correct? If you have two of these pumps in series, then this in theory doubles the pumping head. Since you say that the system is working, I'm guessing that you have adequate flow, maybe more than you think, possibly the flowmeters are off. You will never get close to the 8 GPM that you desire due to the high head loss of 240' of 3/4" PEX. According to a chart I found online, at 8 GPM the head loss would be about 100' for that much 3/4" PEX.
At 8 GPM, the combined head available for the two 009 pumps in series would only be approx. 26'.

Steve

 

[HiItsMeJimmy]

Stringray, u
You hit nail on the head... anyway to increase flow per circuit without changing feed sizes???

 

[stingry]

Stringray, u
You hit nail on the head... anyway to increase flow per circuit without changing feed sizes???

Without changing the feeder line sizes, can't think of anything. Make sure the flow restricters (if you have them) on the manifold are wide open. If you are dead set on increasing your flow rates, changing the 160' or so of accessible feeder lines from 3/4" to 1" will eliminate a lot of head loss.

Cheers
Steve

 

[anthony666]

another option is to decouple the boiler via primary secondary or a low loss header at the 80 foot mark, add another circ there and up size the feeds to the manifold

 

[HiItsMeJimmy]

Out of 8 zones 2 zones read 1/4 GPM flow and the other 6 dont register.. My delta T is still 24*. If flow was that low wouldnt my delta T be higher???

 

[Ron Lombardo]

Use a Taco 0013 higher head and more gpm and use circuit setters on each loop. Or run two separate headers closer to where they come out of the ground ... each with a 0013.

 

[HiItsMeJimmy]

I have an adjustable manifold to limit flow in all 8 circuit feeds... I'm dumb to the term "header"????

 

[Ron Lombardo]

Can you post a picture or a diagram of how this is piped ? What Boiler are you using ?

You have pipe buried 4ft deep insulated ? what type of insulation and what size pipe ?

 

[HiItsMeJimmy]

Piping is very basic. Using an outdoor hardy wood burner with mixing valve at manifold. Insulated 3/4 pex buried 4ft deep.

 

[Sureshot]

If you didn't have the flowmeters would you be happy with how it is working?

 

[anthony666]

If you didn't have the flowmeters would you be happy with how it is working?

that is the million dollar question .. as long as you're warm and the bill isn't mental, leave it alone

 

[motorcycle79]

A shot in the dark here I just went to a no heat call a couple weeks after start up and the mixing valve was pluged with pipe dope and garbage. Cleaned it out and works fine.

And I didn't do the install