Cleaning rusty tools / will vinegar work?

[1991Syclone]

I have done my searches and know that there are two main ways to remove rust from old metal, one being electrolysis and the other using either vinegar or molasses. I'm trying to figure out which one would be best for these tools.

Back Story

My father-in-law is in his 70's and not the most handy of folks, so I bought him a cheapie all in one kind of tool kit since I could never find anything to use when I was over there and he needed something repaired. I would go down to the storage area and look through this old red tool box not paying much attention to the rusty tools inside of it.

Well, after getting into my garage reorganization I started surfing here and realized that there were some decent quality older wrenches in that tool box but they were all rusty. I was over there working on the boat today and decided to bring the box home and see what there was.

There are a number of older Craftsman wrenches, some Plomb, Dunlap, Vlchek, Proto, Billings and other no-name ones, but they are typically all made in the USA. I believe a lot of these tools came from his father which would put them between 50-60 years old at least, but I can't confirm that.

The worst one of all is this 12" adjustable wrench made by the Diamond Calk Horseshoe Co. from Duluth Minnesota. Here's an old thread about the company, and here's the wrench:

My first idea was to soak them in Vinegar to see how that does, but I don't know if this is too rusty for that to work. Also, what's the recommended cleaning procedure to be used before attempting to soak them?

Spray them with simple green and scrub all the gunk off? Use brake clean? Looking for some insight into those that have done this before. What about the wrenches that are chrome vanadium? It looks like they've been used heavily enough that the chrome is coming off some of them.

 

[VWandDodge]

I would clean them in a solvent tank first and allow them to dry. After that, have them soda blasted or make your own and do it yourself.

 

[Danglerb]

Don't forget evaporust. http://www.evapo-rust.com/

Just, no wire wheels.

 

[darkk]

Don't forget evaporust. http://www.evapo-rust.com/

Just, no wire wheels.

X2 on the Evaporust....that **** works great...

 

[SoCal Garage]

After that, have them soda blasted or make your own and do it yourself.

Thanks for a great link! Appreciate it.

 

[Steevo]

C-L-R works pretty good, too. with a little scrubbing.

 

[1991Syclone]

I now have the two worst tools sitting in the evapo-rust. We'll see how it works. Thank you for the recommendations!

 

[gsport]

i say dump'm in a bucket of vinegar for a couple of days and let us know how it works..

 

[Vinny]

Vinegar works great. What I used at work since we have so many acids is that I used a concentrated acetic acid (what vinegar is but watered down) and I could watch the reaction take place it was so strong. Got some clean bolts, but they rusted again very quickly because I didn't clean them off too well. (should've soaked them in acetone, me thinks.)

 

[kc-steve]

Evaporust = vinegar

But vinegar is a fraction of the cost.

Steve

 

[1991Syclone]

Evaporust = vinegar

But vinegar is a fraction of the cost.

Steve

Damn... now I know. Although the Evaporust doesn't stink like vinegar which means I don't have to listen to anyone ***** about the smell... It works damn well too.

Next question is what to coat the tools with once they are clean so that they don't rust again?

 

[VWandDodge]

Damn... now I know. Although the Evaporust doesn't stink like vinegar which means I don't have to listen to anyone ***** about the smell... It works damn well too.

Next question is what to coat the tools with once they are clean so that they don't rust again?

Just wipe them down with some light machine oil.

 

[Vinny]

Just make sure to clean them good, first. I was using a concentrated acid so the residue just quickened oxidation. With vinegar, you won't have to worry so much.

 

[Olafur]

I tested vinegar "acid" on old rusty chisel, It took about 24 hour to remove all the rust. But the surface is almost black after the process. Not what I was hoping for. Any ideas?

 

[mrbreezeet1]

I tested vinegar "acid" on old rusty chisel, It took about 24 hour to remove all the rust. But the surface is almost black after the process. Not what I was hoping for. Any ideas?

Scotch brite and some WD-40 (or water and soap,) or an SOS pad and water.
That's what I use to remove the black after electrolysis.

Never did try vinegar "acid" yet though.
I would think the above would work though.

I have meant to try vinegar on some old files I have.

 

[Alchymist]

Those tools are just begging for the electrolysis method....

Here's the last batch I did:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112767

 

[mrbreezeet1]

Next question is what to coat the tools with once they are clean so that they don't rust again?

Some guys use paste wax like on woodworking planes and saws, where you don't want oil on them.
Or Boeshield (sp?)

 

[mrbreezeet1]

Those tools are just begging for the electrolysis method....

Here's the last batch I did:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112767

They look good. I like the surface electrolysis and scotch brite gives you.
Here are some before and after of a Stanley plane.

OK, After and before; Open in new Tab for better photo.

 

[Carl B]

After the rust is removed via Vinegar - - wash them down with mild soap and water, then rinse them well. After that wipe them down with Ospho. Ospho is a mild solution of phosphoric acid - and it will kill and prevent flash rust on bare metals. If you have left any surface rust - it will turn that into iron phosphate.. and look dark gray to black.. { not what you want}. So make sure all the surface rust is removed before applying the Ospho.

Let the Ospho work for at least 6 hours - then rinse with lots of fresh water. Then wipe or blow them dry. Don't worry about the water causing rust as the Ospho leaves a protective film at the molecular level. That alone will prevent the formation of surface rust on bare metal for 15 to 30 days.

To prevent farther surface rust - as someone said earlier - just wipe them down with any machine oil, or Marvel Mystery Oil. I use KROIL to wipe mine down with.. Some guys use Gibbs Gun Oil with good results as well.

FWIW,
Carl B.

 

[Olafur]

Scotch brite and some WD-40 (or water and soap,) or an SOS pad and water.
That's what I use to remove the black after electrolysis.

Never did try vinegar "acid" yet though.
I would think the above would work though.

I have meant to try vinegar on some old files I have.

Thanks.

My "vinegar acid" is some stuff made locally and possibly something is lost in my translation. However is says you have to add 2 parts water to make "table vinegar" and the smell is bad, so I guess this stuff is pretty close to vinegar, just lower PH.

 

[mrbreezeet1]

Thanks.

My "vinegar acid" is some stuff made locally and possibly something is lost in my translation. However is says you have to add 2 parts water to make "table vinegar" and the smell is bad, so I guess this stuff is pretty close to vinegar, just lower PH.

Sounds pretty good, Where did you get that?
I take it you did not add 2 parts water, just used it "straight"?

I'm a pretty big fan of electrolysis, but I got a pretty rusty pair of "Vice Grip" brand vice grips for a Dollar today, but the jaws are like brand new.
Did not get the results I am used to seeing though, did not really turn "Black Oxide" either.
IDK, maybe it's due to a certain plating used on the tool.
I mean I can/did clean them up good enough to use, but I was going to try household vinegar, but I could not find a suitable container just yet.
Is white distilled vinegar OK to use,(that's what I have) or is the red kind, what is it apple vinegar, better?

 

[1991Syclone]

Results

I started with EvapoRust since I wasn't sure that vinegar would work at first. I will try it next time once I can get a large quantity of it.

Making sure that I can fit them in the container

After the bubbles had subsided, you can see some of the rust coming off of it and mixing with the EvapoRust

After 24 hours in the solution

The smaller of the wrenches looked good so I decided to put the bigger adjustable wrench in the EvapoRust for another 24 hours. Here's everything from the first batch after I scrubbed them down. I also added a few others

Close up

 

[TjoFrasse]

Nice work! Those look great.

I have used acetic acid (the same acid that is in vinegar), diluted to about 6% (12% acid is sold in food stores here in sweden, used for pickling). 36+ hours are required for rusty tools, but the result is good. The problem is to stop new rust from appearing. I have thought about mixing a alkali solution (from baking soda or such) and give the tools a dip to neutralize any residual acid. Anyone tried anything similar? Does it work?

 

[mrbreezeet1]

No, don't know about that, baking soda should do it.
I have also read , but never did yet, after the vinegar soak, scrub down with soapy water, dry, then dip in rubbing alcohol, dry well, and put in low temp oven for a bit. Light oil, or past wax, boeshield, to protect.

I did read somewhere you could use white distilled or the red vinegar, it didn't matter.

 

[TjoFrasse]

Thanks.

My "vinegar acid" is some stuff made locally and possibly something is lost in my translation. However is says you have to add 2 parts water to make "table vinegar" and the smell is bad, so I guess this stuff is pretty close to vinegar, just lower PH.

Is it "ättika" (or "eddike") you are using? That is acetic acid, what I'm using. Cheaper than real vinegar, and acidic. Citric acid should work as good also I think.

No, don't know about that, baking soda should do it.
I have also read , but never did yet, after the vinegar soak, scrub down with soapy water, dry, then dip in rubbing alcohol, dry well, and put in low temp oven for a bit. Light oil, or past wax, boeshield, to protect.

That sounds like a good procedure. I think that soap is a alkali so that should neutralize acid residue, and the alcohol cleaning and waxing should give a clean and protected surface.

I did read somewhere you could use white distilled or the red vinegar, it didn't matter.

Since it should only be the acid component that is important, any vinegar should do it. Strength might vary though.

You say that you usually use electrolysis for de-rusting. I have tried it for some flat parts and it works good. But for more complex pieces, do you have any trick for getting all the surfaces clean, and not just the ones closest to the anode? I have not tried anything more advances, but can imagine that getting to the inside of something might be hard...

 

[cdncowboy]

What about using CLR?

 

[mrbreezeet1]

You say that you usually use electrolysis for de-rusting. I have tried it for some flat parts and it works good. But for more complex pieces, do you have any trick for getting all the surfaces clean, and not just the ones closest to the anode? I have not tried anything more advances, but can imagine that getting to the inside of something might be hard...

No I just move the part around , but I have seen where they will put many anode's around the bucket and tie them together with copper wire.

 

[SMKS]

Evaporust = vinegar

But vinegar is a fraction of the cost.

Steve

This is wrong.

Evapo-rust is NOT vinegar. I don't know why you would think that.

I've used them both extensively. Evapo-rust is not acidic like vinegar. Evapo-rust also works better than vinegar, from my experience.


To the OP-

I'm still on my first gallon of Evapo-rust, and I've been using it for more than a year. Store it in airtight containers so it wont evaporate.

Also, I degrease the tools before putting them in the Evapo-rust.

 

[Olafur]

Is it "ättika" (or "eddike") you are using? That is acetic acid, what I'm using. Cheaper than real vinegar, and acidic. Citric acid should work as good also I think.

Yep, over here called: ediksýra. I got off my lazy *** and did some googling and this stuff is 15% acetic acid. Available at local food store very cheap.

 

[greybeard]

Check this out

I haven't read the entire thread but, this seems like it would do the job. Sorry if it has been already posted. http://www.eastwood.com/ew-rust-dissolver-gallon.html

 

[fourtythree]

Naval Jelly works pretty well too.

 

[powertrip]

My question is, what is thew best store bought vinegar to use and will store bought vinegar turn the tools black?

 

[Gregg33]

Evaporust is the best way. I've used it on just about everything imaginable with muych success. The only thing that it seems to damage is the chrome (turns it black..I think near the rust spots) on SO wrenches if you leave them in overnight. Other brands and SO stuff other than wrenches seem to be ok, even with overnight soaking.

 

[kc-steve]

This is wrong.

Evapo-rust is NOT vinegar. I don't know why you would think that.

I've used them both extensively. Evapo-rust is not acidic like vinegar. Evapo-rust also works better than vinegar, from my experience.

I have used both extensively as well and have never seen a difference. Evapo-rust Company will never tell you what it is made of but they will tell you that it is environmentally safe . . . as is vinegar! If you want to waste your money then so be it. I guess we can agree to disagree.

As others have said though, when it comes to some bad rust situations, electrolysis works best. That is even cheaper than vinegar.

Steve

 

[1991Syclone]

I have used both extensively as well and have never seen a difference. Evapo-rust Company will never tell you what it is made of but they will tell you that it is environmentally safe . . . as is vinegar! If you want to waste your money then so be it. I guess we can agree to disagree.

As others have said though, when it comes to some bad rust situations, electrolysis works best. That is even cheaper than vinegar.

Steve

EvapoRust has managed to get the worst tools clean, so I haven't had the need to try vinegar, but I will start looking for some more rusty things to see how well it will do. Thanks for all the replies!

 

[SMKS]

I have used both extensively as well and have never seen a difference. Evapo-rust Company will never tell you what it is made of but they will tell you that it is environmentally safe . . . as is vinegar! If you want to waste your money then so be it. I guess we can agree to disagree.

As others have said though, when it comes to some bad rust situations, electrolysis works best. That is even cheaper than vinegar.

Steve

Taken from the evapo-rust website:
Emphasis added by me

EVAPO-RUSTTM removes rust without any environmental or safety hazards.

SCAQMD CAS Certified
Non-Corrosive
Non-Toxic
Neutral pH (6 - 7)
Not a Skin Irritant
No an Eye Irritant
Non-Hazardous
No VOC's
No HAP's
Non-Flammable
Water-based
Biodegradable

Taken from the Wikipedia page on vinegar:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinegar

The pH of table vinegar ranges from 2.4 to 3.4

Vinegar works because it is acidic. Evapo-rust isn't acidic and works by a different chemical reaction.

If you like using vinegar, that's fine. But Evapo-rust is not vinegar. I'll keep using Evapo-rust because it works better -in my experience- and is less likely to damage any finish on the tool.

 

[kc-steve]

Let me put it THIS WAY . . . if Evapo-rust goes out of business in the future, then MY GUESS will be because people are unwilling to pay 10-times more for something that works as well as or similar to white vinegar that can be purchased in ANY grocery store for human consumption, at a fraction of the cost.

Happy now?
Steve

 

[Vinny]

If you want to completely neautralize the vinegar after, put a little baking soda in a glass of water and dip the parts in when done. Or just rinse under water for a while. Just make sure you get all the acid off. Acids will continue to oxidize parts. For fun, get a container of muriatic acid and leave it open in your garage

 

[Plump]

If the vinegar works, sweet. I would be concerned though with the acid etching if you're using it on something important. Evapo-Rust is incredible and I'll continue to use it until my jug is gone and then maybe try the vinegar.

Good discussion boys and girls!

 

[T56 Impala]

Okay, I have to put in my two cents on this subject.

Initially I was a huge fan of evaporust. I would still use it on a user tool, but some of those tools you have could well be collectable. I would avoid using anything that dissolves chemically, the rust. Instead try this:

Using brake cleaner or even soap and water, and a stiff bristle brush (non metallic) clean the tools. Dry them by hand and coat them liberally with gun oil. Let them sit of a day or two then dampen a rag with common motor oil. Wipe each tool with the rag. Let it sit for a few hours then wipe off any excess.

Do not use a wire brush, especially a powered brush until you are sure the tool was not plated with cadmium. This can be VERY bad for your health if you inhale it. Not to mention it can, if done wrong, damage the tool. You will also be able to see if the tool was painted. Any paint, marks or coatings should be noted for the future in case you find that one in a million wrench.

Now it's time for research. Find out what you have. Alloy artifacts is a great place to START. It is by no means the complete works on tools. Ask questions here. There is lots of knowledge here. There are other tool sites on the web also. Just ask, people love to help.

Be aware, there are vultures out there who might just want to buy one from you!, that includes me. Most people know the value of the tool in question and usually offer a fair price. It is highly doubtful that you have any wrench worth $100's of dollars. Doubtful any would even be worth $10 unless someone must have it to complete a collection. I can think of a few I need that I would even pay $100 for!

Remember, the first rule to preservation is to not cause more damage. Things are better left in a natural condition. Both for price and research.

Good luck and keep posting pictures. We love them here!