Above 1200 Sq/FT Cleaning Up My Shop

[Farmall450]

Sadly I don't get it. Never saw the show, but I fear there is a pun here somewhere. Don't you hate it when you overshoot your audience?

I was going out on a limb.

They're based in Pawnee, Indiana.

 

[oldironfarmer]

I was going out on a limb.

They're based in Pawnee, Indiana.

Did not know that! Pawnee is one of those unusual names most people know. When I search for Pawnee County Courthouse the first thing to come up is Pawnee, NE.

From what little I know of Parks and Recreation they were a little too high class for my area.

 

[don long]

Andy
Just thought I'd drop a note to let you know I'm here with little to say
other than Thanks for sharing and teaching us as you go

Don.

 

[oldironfarmer]

Always glad to have you stop by, Don!

I sure learn a lot from your thread.

 

[Hubscrub66]

Nice work on the car, that small block and trans looks good together. Nice couple

 

[oldironfarmer]

Nice work on the car, that small block and trans looks good together. Nice couple

Thanks! And the transmission is built for 575 hp and 400 ft-lbs of torque. It will never feel the little guy in front, and the car is light. I'm hoping it will be a long term fit for the car.

A friend sent me this. I guess he's a friend.

Actually I know he's friend, he brings me aluminum, don't you, JB.

Oh, sorry, everybody forget you saw that.

My mate the hay baler lost the head off his hammer yesterday while I was watching him do some maintenance. I loaned him a hammer and asked if he'd want a new handle in his. He said he would so this morning I cut one out of a piece of hickory tree I had in the shop. It has the thumb notch in it, I like those, you can tell how it is oriented without looking.

I think he liked it, he commented it had the narrow "Andy Handle" so he has noticed.

He was mowing behind the truck today, mowed on the left yesterday, and baled across the road in the distance last week before our rains.

He has nice equipment, works a full time job in the industry I used to work in.

Thanks for stopping in!

 

[oldironfarmer]

Some more shop time. I've been struggling with how to rebuild the motor mounts in the purplish car.

One mounting hole on the passenger side was very close to a rivet, and the old motor mount bracket was bolted crooked on top of the rivet. I clamped a flattened copper tube behind the hole and filled it with weld.

After grinding down and locating a new hole I was able to drill straight without removing the fender by using long drills.

This will provide a much better bolting location.

This is a riveted frame so there are cutouts on the inside to allow the assemblers to set the rivets. Gives you room to get inside to put nuts on bolts. Very nice!

Thanks for visiting.

 

[xtremek]

Much nicer.

 

[545_days]

I started reading this thread back near the beginning, and have revisited it a time or two. Early on I wondered if Andy was the same Andy I knew from a project south of Houston about 5 years ago. The pictures a few pages back prove that yes you are the Andy Martin I knew.

I prefer to remain internet anonymous, but you may remember me as the guy on the fractionator who was restoring an old Martini Henry rifle. You gave me a couple of springs you made as I needed to replace a flat spring.

It is good to see that you are doing well and having a good time on your farm.

 

[Farmall450]

I started reading this thread back near the beginning, and have revisited it a time or two. Early on I wondered if Andy was the same Andy I knew from a project south of Houston about 5 years ago. The pictures a few pages back prove that yes you are the Andy Martin I knew.

I prefer to remain internet anonymous, but you may remember me as the guy on the fractionator who was restoring an old Martini Henry rifle. You gave me a couple of springs you made as I needed to replace a flat spring.

It is good to see that you are doing well and having a good time on your farm.

It's a small world we live in.

 

[1/2 Cup]

Andy your repair is way better.

 

[bj383ss]

Andy I spent some time early this morning and hopefully tonight I can get caught up on your thread that moves at the speed of light. A Purplish Hot Rod?

Bret

 

[oldironfarmer]

Much nicer.

Thanks!

I started reading this thread back near the beginning, and have revisited it a time or two. Early on I wondered if Andy was the same Andy I knew from a project south of Houston about 5 years ago. The pictures a few pages back prove that yes you are the Andy Martin I knew.

I prefer to remain internet anonymous, but you may remember me as the guy on the fractionator who was restoring an old Martini Henry rifle. You gave me a couple of springs you made as I needed to replace a flat spring.

It is good to see that you are doing well and having a good time on your farm.

Sure I remember you! I always thought you were going to give me dimensions so I could forge a spring to match what you needed. Somehow we never connected. Hope you got your rifle finished. If you need any forging I'm still at it.

I guess this thread will end, now. Now everybody knows I'm an engineering manager, not a good craftsman, so I can't pretend anymore.

I'm internet anonymous too. Kindof. I guess. Maybe not too much. I don't hide my tag numbers...

For curiosity of others, I was discharged from the Fractionator project at the end of November, 2014. I chose that to be my last project and haven't really done any engineering management work after that. There's too much to do around the farm. After a year of busy retirement I found GJ while looking for information on my Rotary lift, I found a link to Thomas' thread and got sucked in. Didn't learn anything about my lift, I had already had used it for 30 years at that point. I was worried about condensed water and one of my old coworkers put me onto the paste used to detect water in oil storage tanks. I found no water. By June of 2016 I had to start posting, and when I decided to add on to my shop to relieve congestion I started this thread. Now I don't know how to stop it.

It's a small world we live in.

Your world might be small, mine is pretty big. My guy baling hay has lost a bale spike off the front of his tractor. We know it's in the five acre patch just east of the house, but we've walked it and even five acres seems big when you're looking for a bit of iron.

Andy your repair is way better.

Thanks, Steve! I'm going to have two bolts at the top and one at the bottom to provide torsional support from the car frame.

Andy I spent some time early this morning and hopefully tonight I can get caught up on your thread that moves at the speed of light. A Purplish Hot Rod?

Bret

My thread's been lagging lately. You can skip the dumb stuff and get caught up in no time.

That's the purple 35 Chevy I bought a while back, then my son claimed it and brought it back with a bad transmission so I'm putting one in he won't tear up. He's just a kid, only 49 but he'll be 50 in December so maybe he'll settle down. He really loves the car and would have it anyway as soon as I die but I'm so behind on everything not sure at this point when I'll even get to that. Got a bunch to do first.

When I am old I shall drive purple cars...

 

[oldironfarmer]

A little more progress on the aforementioned purplish car.

Here's the driver's side motor mount plate now bolted in place with a clamp (ground is on the clamp) holding the bottom clip up. The top and bottom of the frame are not parallel so I had to weld the bottom clip on in place.

Here's the weld on the passenger side clip. It was tight under there, I could have had the car a little higher, but I got the welding done.

I had predrilled the bottom clips for 1/2" so then had to drill 1/2" holes overhead from close to the floor. I used a transfer punch to centerpunch the hole and drilled in three steps. Not too tough.

If anyone doesn't know what a transfer punch is, it's a punch the diameter of the hole with a small center punch nub on one end. It fits snugly in the hole placed over the piece to be drilled and transfers the center of that hole to the underlying piece. There's two sets on the left, behind the drills. (I cleaned up my bench for this shot). You need a transfer punch for each size hole, so they come like drill bit sets, except 1/2" plus 1/32" is also included in a set to 1/2".

Transfer punches are great for marking holes to match something else.

Holes are drilled and I spent a little time measuring the engine and transmission and sketched the motor mount bracket which will weld to these plates and line up for the bolt in the motor mount. Fortunately the engine was installed level originally so the holes for the mount bolts will be horizontal.

Then my buddy showed up and started raking and baling. He made 20 bales 5-1/2' by 5' bales off 4 acres. That's pretty good hay for around here.

Bob was ready so he and I moved all the hay by dark. Here he is carrying bale #2 while bale #1 has staked out his homestead before the hay lot fills up.

 

[1/2 Cup]

Andy the mount is in a very awkward position plus the fact that it is not parallel, you have done pretty well.

 

[xtremek]

Nice looking weld, Andy. It's going to be nice when you finish.

 

[bolensboneyard]

Looking good Andy.

 

[oldironfarmer]

Andy the mount is in a very awkward position plus the fact that it is not parallel, you have done pretty well.

Thanks, Steve!

Nice looking weld, Andy. It's going to be nice when you finish.

Thank you!

Looking good Andy.

Thanks, Bobby!

While I am eager to get this car done and out of the shop, I have decided to back track a bit. I still have some time required to finish the motor mounts, but have all measurements so they can be built on the bench. My initial premise for learning to cast was to make car parts, so I've decided to stop on the steel motor mounts and lost foam cast some aluminum ones instead. I can use the steel parts for go-bys and may spend no more time casting than finishing up the steel. If the cast does not work out the steel ones can be finished, and installed even after then engine is back in the car. Wish me luck!!

 

[Bob Heine]

Andy, nice work on the engine mounts.

When I lose something like that hay bale spike, I always find it long after I stop looking. If I'm lucky, I trip over it. More likely it will destroy a piece of equipment or puncture a tire.

OK, now I have Transfer Punch Set on my Harbor Freight shopping list. I have never owned a set but that explains all the bound-up bolts on my projects. If I were younger I might spend more than $10.99 on the set but it is highly likely I will forget they are in my collection soon after I bring them home. Thanks for adding to my list. Now I just have to remember to bring the list and coupons (hey, $2.20 is nothing to laugh at).

EDIT1: I just saw your last post. If it were me, I'd just make the mount out of foam. How strong does it have to be?

EDIT2: I think the foam mounts will be fine as long as you don't spill lacquer thinner on them.

 

[jimreed2160]

WARNING!

Andy, don't listen to Bob. He has been melting foam peanuts all morning and the fumes have finally unhinged the sanity that was only loosely coupled to begin with. He will be much better when he wakes up from his afternoon heat stroke.

 

[Bob Heine]

WARNING!

Andy, don't listen to Bob. He has been melting foam peanuts all morning and the fumes have finally unhinged the sanity that was only loosely coupled to begin with. He will be much better when he wakes up from his afternoon heat stroke.

Jim, it's not nice to spy on people! I only gave the can a quick whiff to be sure there was still active thinner. Spent the afternoon planting evergreens. It was only 89 in the shade and 120 where I was passed out in the garden. Liane enjoys the heat and likes watching me melt.

 

[drivesitfar]

Andy: great engineering figuring out how to make room for the new motor mount. I bet your son will be very happy whether you return his purple car next week or after Christmas.

hope you had a great weekend

 

[Rex_A_Lott]

Just an FYI for the folks not familiar with the transfer punches, they'll last much longer if you dont FRAM on them, only hit 'em hard enough to make a mark you can see. Go back with the regular center punch and make the real mark.
Thanks Andy for showing us all how to re-engineer the mounts, looking much better.

 

[realvc]

Could car club plates or plaques be cast the same way you cast the hammers?
The thickness or thinness may be and issue.

Casting your own motor mounts is a really cool project. Can't wait to see the results.

Vince

 

[tym]

Could car club plates or plaques be cast the same way you cast the hammers?
The thickness or thinness may be and issue.

Now that would be a cool idea!

I've never crazy or forged anything, but picked up a few items at a local colonial fair with a blacksmithing demo. Lots of Revolutionaty War reenactors too.

 

[oldironfarmer]

Andy, nice work on the engine mounts.

When I lose something like that hay bale spike, I always find it long after I stop looking. If I'm lucky, I trip over it. More likely it will destroy a piece of equipment or puncture a tire.

OK, now I have Transfer Punch Set on my Harbor Freight shopping list. I have never owned a set but that explains all the bound-up bolts on my projects. If I were younger I might spend more than $10.99 on the set but it is highly likely I will forget they are in my collection soon after I bring them home. Thanks for adding to my list. Now I just have to remember to bring the list and coupons (hey, $2.20 is nothing to laugh at).

EDIT1: I just saw your last post. If it were me, I'd just make the mount out of foam. How strong does it have to be?

EDIT2: I think the foam mounts will be fine as long as you don't spill lacquer thinner on them.

I have made a few transfer punches, and only recently bought a set. Then I got most of a set from the machinist tool box I bought. Now I've got almost too many. But not quite.

When you use them be sure to clamp down whatever has the holes you're transferring.

WARNING!

Andy, don't listen to Bob. He has been melting foam peanuts all morning and the fumes have finally unhinged the sanity that was only loosely coupled to begin with. He will be much better when he wakes up from his afternoon heat stroke.

Bob is my hero. I've decided foam mounts with a little lacquer sprayed on to harden them will work just fine.

Jim, it's not nice to spy on people! I only gave the can a quick whiff to be sure there was still active thinner. Spent the afternoon planting evergreens. It was only 89 in the shade and 120 where I was passed out in the garden. Liane enjoys the heat and likes watching me melt.

He's just trying to learn more about woodworking, Bob.

Andy: great engineering figuring out how to make room for the new motor mount. I bet your son will be very happy whether you return his purple car next week or after Christmas.

hope you had a great weekend

Thanks, Drives! Yes, my son is ready for the car now.

Just an FYI for the folks not familiar with the transfer punches, they'll last much longer if you dont FRAM on them, only hit 'em hard enough to make a mark you can see. Go back with the regular center punch and make the real mark.
Thanks Andy for showing us all how to re-engineer the mounts, looking much better.

Thanks for the tip. I've always used them for punches but what you're saying will avoid wear on them. I'm not too old to learn.

Could car club plates or plaques be cast the same way you cast the hammers?
The thickness or thinness may be and issue.

Casting your own motor mounts is a really cool project. Can't wait to see the results.

Vince

The process of sand casting is how most plaques are made. I plan to cast some car plates before long. I'm looking for good ideas.

I've decided to post the details on the motor mounts. Hope it's not too boring.

Now that would be a cool idea!

I've never crazy or forged anything, but picked up a few items at a local colonial fair with a blacksmithing demo. Lots of Revolutionaty War reenactors too.

Seems like we could come up with a design people on GJ would want.

I had a productive but short day today. Data dump on it's way.

 

[oldironfarmer]

If you're not interested in the process of making motor mounts for an old hot rod, just skip forward a few posts. This may be boring.

First thing I needed to do was measure the existing motor mounts. The engine was mounted but in a little bit of a bind. The car was on jack stands and by happenstance it was also level. Here's the measurements I took.

I measured the front and rear of each motor mount to the floor because I could see they were not straight. They were pretty close.

Then measured the engine and transmission. The rear mount under the transmission had been cut several times and I want it to fit and be centered this time.

I measured the engine using a long bolt in the rear mount and framing squares against each side mount so I could sight across them to get a measurement. I was surprised it was exactly 35" after I added half the bolt at the rear.

After the steel mounting brackets were made I measured them and determined what the offsets would be to fit the 16-5/6" between mounts. These dimensions changed when I made the foam pattern because I'm making the foam thicker.

The 1-7/16" dimension from the back of the plates to the centerline of the motor mounts is critical to get the back of the transmission on the center of it's rear mount. There's 2-1/2" inside the engine mounts and I'm making my brackets 2" long so I can shim to make small adjustments in engine location.

Then I measured the spread of the plates. It looks like they are 2 degrees 45 minutes (2-3/4 degrees) from parallel with the centerline of the car.

This evening I ripped some foam down to about 5/16" and 7/32" thick. The hot wire will shave off a thin piece.

Then cut out, drilled, and glued up replicas of the steel plates I had made, but a little thicker.

One tab looks like it's not tilted like the steel one but the measurements match.

The bottoms of the frame rails are angled. That made it hard to get the steel brackets off. I had to set the foam parallel because when it is cast aluminum it won't bend much.

Starting to take shape.

 

[Guster]

Plaques, badges and decals is one of the main reasons to get into casting. Followed by handles, knobs, pulleys and many other fittings. Ultimately restoring or rebuilding any cast part. For fine, sharp detail you'd likely want to die or investment cast depending on the size. But sand cast works well enough for most things. Detail can be quite good using a finer sand in the mold area.

Purple car is coming along very nicely Andy! A cast motor mount bracket opens a lot of options and a good excuse to use the good muffins. While you are at it you can cast and cure or vulcanise your own urethane or rubber elastomers too.

Just remember to spill some fluids back into the engine when you put it back together again.

 

[oldironfarmer]

Redrew the mounting bracket and adjusted the dimensions for foam.

You may notice I don't like 32's so I put the closest measurement and add 1/32". It's how I read the tape anyway. Sure would be nice if someone would invent a decimal system of measurements.

Then drew it to scale so I could cut the odd shaped piece.

Then I test fit for a sanity check. The foam fit in pretty well, the angled piece is just laying there.

The bottom holes could line up better. I may slot the foam or just drill out the aluminum.

Here's a shot of the bolt in the transmission mount and the level I used to measure to. 28" level which fits just right for this job.

Then I placed the level at the 35" plus 1-7/16" to get to the center of the motor mount location. I scribed a line on each foam pattern to preserve the location.

Almost there...

 

[oldironfarmer]

As soon as I cut out the odd shaped pieces I realize the foam vertical piece was thicker than I had allowed for. I needed to remove 1/8". But upon laying it on the pattern with an offset circle drawn I realized I had cut them undersize.

If you're going to screw up, at least make it where you have two offsetting errors.

Then I used a torpedo level to scribe vertical lines at the web (odd shaped piece) location for lineup when I glue.

It just worked out well to glue everything in place, using the level to keep it all in line regardless of the tilt of each frame and bracket.

Then I offset the level to the end of the rounds and shimmed the level to a level orientation. I used the end of the rounds against the level for rough alignment then adjusted them with the torpedo level as the glue cooled.

You can see the level is level by the torpedo level vial.

Added the flanges and I have two motor mounts.

A test fit reveals the driver's side round is not in alignment so it was cut loose and will be reglued tomorrow. It looks like we have 16-3/4" between the centerlines of the rounds. Glad I didn't make the brackets even shorter. I may fudge each hole 1/16" to pick up the 1/8", but I think there is plenty of play in the engine brackets. Tomorrow is another day.

Thanks for looking in!! I wanted to cast these tomorrow but it's looking like Tuesday. There's still a lot of finishing work to do. These patterns are a fair amount of work and if I screw one up pouring I have to remake the whole pattern.

More to come, I hope.

 

[oldironfarmer]

Plaques, badges and decals is one of the main reasons to get into casting. Followed by handles, knobs, pulleys and many other fittings. Ultimately restoring or rebuilding any cast part. For fine, sharp detail you'd likely want to die or investment cast depending on the size. But sand cast works well enough for most things. Detail can be quite good using a finer sand in the mold area.

Purple car is coming along very nicely Andy! A cast motor mount bracket opens a lot of options and a good excuse to use the good muffins. While you are at it you can cast and cure or vulcanise your own urethane or rubber elastomers too.

Just remember to spill some fluids back into the engine when you put it back together again.

You snuck in when I wasn't looking!

Sand cast plaques work well when you sand the face down to clean up the letters. Lost foam can give you some great detail as well.

This may all be practice if the castings don't turn out, but I need the practice. The purplish car has kept me from the foundry.

Fluids in engine, fluids in engine, fluids in engine...

Thanks for stopping by!

 

[Farmall450]

Wow, quite the ordeal.

It'll be interesting to see them in action. I wonder if one could 3D print them, although I suppose that would probably take longer than your method.

I bet in the near future rapid modeling would be very possible.

 

[stariforms]

Looks Good!

 

[1/2 Cup]

Andy you have truly excelled

BTW we have not a bad metric system of measurement you could potentially use, it would be so much easier. Those fractions just do my head in now a days, it has been many a year since this black duck has had to use them.

 

[tym]

Seems like we could come up with a design people on GJ would want.

Now that's a thought! Actually with the holidays around the corner.

 

[jblnut]

If you're not interested in the process of making motor mounts for an old hot rod, just skip forward a few posts. This may be boring.

Ok I'm here. Now what ??




J/K I am very much going to bookmark this page because building stuff out of foam like that is an amazing idea !!

 

[drivesitfar]

Handy: your new motor mounts look like great engineering and fabrication at it's best. I (we) all hope it works like you hope it should.

good luck!!

 

[Toothaker]

Andy, when you get time (ha!) maybe you could tell us the benefits of cast aluminum engine mounts instead of welded steel engine mounts.

The way things started, you were welding steel, and then suddenly you recreated them in foam. I must've missed something.

Not knowing the answer to this, what is the load on the engine mounts? Obviously there's weight, and rotational forces, both as the engine winds up and as it slows down. There's also longitudinal forces from acceleration and deceleration. Aluminum (Aluminium for Rian ) forms micro cracks instead of bending; I'd think that steel would be a better material for this application.

Of course I'm just throwing popcorn from the cheap seats, and I don't have a clue.

 

[oldironfarmer]

Wow, quite the ordeal.

It'll be interesting to see them in action. I wonder if one could 3D print them, although I suppose that would probably take longer than your method.

I bet in the near future rapid modeling would be very possible.

To 3D print you have to have an accurate design. In this case I don't knw the true geometry of the frame, nor how it may be bent or twisted. Lost PLA has been done but I have't tried it yet.

I'd need a laser scanning setup to do an accurate job of modeling.

Looks Good!

Thank you!

Andy you have truly excelled

BTW we have not a bad metric system of measurement you could potentially use, it would be so much easier. Those fractions just do my head in now a days, it has been many a year since this black duck has had to use them.

Thanks, it's getting there.

Metric system? Do you have 1,000 days in a year, and 100 hours in a day? Soounds good.

Now that's a thought! Actually with the holidays around the corner.

Show me your design...

Ok I'm here. Now what ??

J/K I am very much going to bookmark this page because building stuff out of foam like that is an amazing idea !!

Lost foam with sheetrock mud is the right tool for some things.

Handy: your new motor mounts look like great engineering and fabrication at it's best. I (we) all hope it works like you hope it should.

good luck!!

Hmm, I hope the engineering is adequate.

Andy, when you get time (ha!) maybe you could tell us the benefits of cast aluminum engine mounts instead of welded steel engine mounts.

The way things started, you were welding steel, and then suddenly you recreated them in foam. I must've missed something.

Not knowing the answer to this, what is the load on the engine mounts? Obviously there's weight, and rotational forces, both as the engine winds up and as it slows down. There's also longitudinal forces from acceleration and deceleration. Aluminum (Aluminium for Rian ) forms micro cracks instead of bending; I'd think that steel would be a better material for this application.

Of course I'm just throwing popcorn from the cheap seats, and I don't have a clue.

I agree steel is a better idea for this application. It was just an excellent opportunity to try lost foam/aluminium. I'm going from existing 14 gauge square tube to 1/4" aluminum with a much greater section modulus. I have not designed the mounts, I'm guessing like I had no engineering degree.

Probably no more than 300# vertical dead load and about the same torque load. For the size members I have I think they'll be lightly loaded, somewhere around 1,000 psi from moment alone. 10,000 psi would be a reasonable load. I hope.

 

[Farmall450]

True on the design.

So easy to model in CAD if you know what you're working with. I feel bad for people who did this by hand