Stuey
Well-known member
Have any of you built your own Dremel or router CNC machines?
Cnc?
- Thread starter Stuey
- Start date
Haven't myself, but this could be the base for a nice set-up:
http://vanda-layindustries.com/html/acra_mill_plus.html
http://vanda-layindustries.com/html/acra_mill_plus.html
Doug19
Well-known member
Been loking at making my own for a long time. I have my eyes on Joe's Hybrid (http://joescnc.com/index.php) I'm just not sure if I can handle the eletrics part of it.
rsanter
Well-known member
I picked up a cnc X-Y table that bolts to my B-port mill
one day I will use it
bob
one day I will use it
bob
theWORLDSaNAIL
Well-known member
Yes I have built a from scratch CNC the problems with most DIY Kits no rigid frames, bad alignment of all axis and surfaces and almost dangerous motor control units then you still need a computer for control of the machine and a good industrial computer can not be made from and laptop or desktop machine that is exposed to dirt thermal cycling and power surge from motor control.
Hmm, possibly, but it looks like enough modifications would have to be made that one's better off just starting from scratch.
I might attempt Joe's 2006, but the Jgro seems to be more up my alley. Maybe a combination of the two.
Thus far it looks like the DIY route would be quite a daunting undertaking. I'm just trying to gauge whether it's forseeable for me to attempt at this time.
Just pouring through all the info available via cnczone is a huge task unto itself!
The electronics don't seem to be too complicated. Computer with parallel port, motor controller, stepper motors, power supply(ies). It looks like most people go with a kit via hobbycnc ($100 or so, maybe less), or with a Gecko 540 ($300).
My concern for hesitation is the cost and assembly of the mechanical components - the main chassis, linear guides, and acme rods. Hence, my inquiry - I'm still in the research phase and eager to see what people here have done.
I don't have a mill. I don't have the space for, nor the $$ for a mill. Plus, I mostly would need to cut wood, plastic sheets, or thin aluminum, making a mill somewhat overkill at this point. (plus I live in an apartment w/ no basement, no garage.)
Yikes! I had planned on relatively modest dimensions, maybe 2x2, which should make alignment a bit easier. I had planned on going with Gecko, which is repeatedly lauded as an excellent controller manufacturer, and I had planned on isolating the small CNC within a containment to isolate it from any dirty or otherwise.
As opposed to power surges and consumer computers, you may be right, but thermal cycling - my computers endure that on a regular basis. Will power surges from a motor controller really make its way through to the computer via the parallel port?
How were you able to overcome these common issues with your scratch setup?
rsanter
Well-known member
one of the places I worked had a MAX-NC desktop mill
we used it for desktop prototyping. easy to use and reasonable to buy
look them up
bob
we used it for desktop prototyping. easy to use and reasonable to buy
look them up
bob
r6_cannibal
Well-known member
If you're not needing accuracy then acme screws are fine, ballnut is preferable though if you want good reproduction. home-brew cnc is a great way to start, and you can actually put the machine to work for you and pay for itself within a year if you take your time with it 
If you're just doing engraving into wood and small parts from aluminum a home brew setup is fine, I would suggest the comp and controller be on different circuits in your apartment though. I would also recommend filters for the fans pulling air into the computer case
If you're just doing engraving into wood and small parts from aluminum a home brew setup is fine, I would suggest the comp and controller be on different circuits in your apartment though. I would also recommend filters for the fans pulling air into the computer case
Parallel ports are often abused, any design that relies on them I would suspect, but also suspect its key to anything really cheap.
Industrial computer means, 10x current PC prices for 3 year old technology. OTOH many media center type PCs are designed for low power, no fan cooling. I would look for some kind of ROBUST real world interface card, buffered output, fused, etc.
All depends I guess on what your end goal is, wood carving, or cutting metal.
Instead of owning a machine I would prefer to make friends with someone that owns a real cnc machine.
Industrial computer means, 10x current PC prices for 3 year old technology. OTOH many media center type PCs are designed for low power, no fan cooling. I would look for some kind of ROBUST real world interface card, buffered output, fused, etc.
All depends I guess on what your end goal is, wood carving, or cutting metal.
Instead of owning a machine I would prefer to make friends with someone that owns a real cnc machine.
I'll keep that in mind. As mentioned, my main intent is simple constructions for other DIY hobbies. 1/8" alum or thinner, 1/4" acrylic sheet, 3/4" wood, etc.
Precision and high accuracy are not my highest priorities.
This is not going to be a production machine, nor would I even attempt to cut ferrous or hard non-ferrous materials. I don't think I would need that robust of a computer. There are many, many people who run their own DIY router CNCs without issue, which suggests that it can be done easily enough without high end PCs. Why would there be any high current signals coming up the parallel port in the first place?
I planned on holding off for a few months. If I need to hold off for many months, I can do that as well - there's plenty enough to keep me occupied in the meantime.
I don't know of anyone with a CNC. I might be able to gain access to a machine shop, but 1) I don't have the appropriate training, 2) I don't have the time or means to become properly trained, 3) I won't be able to use the equipment for personal use.
An example of what I'd like to create: angled sheet acrylic cutouts to serve as the legs of a small hexapod walker robot, a 120mmx360mm slotted grill, an S shape cutout of 3/4" plywood, etc. Nothing too fancy, nothing too precise. A lot of this can be done by hand, but repeatability and consistency would be nice.
I'll take all your considerations to heart and will continue my research.
I'm thinking that at the very least, I could try to start off by constructing a manually controlled X-Y table. That would take care of the structural and mechanical requirements and might just be enough to hold me over for a while until I can setup a robust enough electrical system. Such a system might also be enough for most of my needs. If it's a waste of $$, I can reuse any fabricated or purchased parts for othe projects. If it's a waste of time, well, at least I will have gained valuale information and craftsmanship skills. At worst, it would still be more fulfilling and less wasteful than playing a video game or watching TV.
Precision and high accuracy are not my highest priorities.
This is not going to be a production machine, nor would I even attempt to cut ferrous or hard non-ferrous materials. I don't think I would need that robust of a computer. There are many, many people who run their own DIY router CNCs without issue, which suggests that it can be done easily enough without high end PCs. Why would there be any high current signals coming up the parallel port in the first place?
I planned on holding off for a few months. If I need to hold off for many months, I can do that as well - there's plenty enough to keep me occupied in the meantime.
I don't know of anyone with a CNC. I might be able to gain access to a machine shop, but 1) I don't have the appropriate training, 2) I don't have the time or means to become properly trained, 3) I won't be able to use the equipment for personal use.
An example of what I'd like to create: angled sheet acrylic cutouts to serve as the legs of a small hexapod walker robot, a 120mmx360mm slotted grill, an S shape cutout of 3/4" plywood, etc. Nothing too fancy, nothing too precise. A lot of this can be done by hand, but repeatability and consistency would be nice.
I'll take all your considerations to heart and will continue my research.
I'm thinking that at the very least, I could try to start off by constructing a manually controlled X-Y table. That would take care of the structural and mechanical requirements and might just be enough to hold me over for a while until I can setup a robust enough electrical system. Such a system might also be enough for most of my needs. If it's a waste of $$, I can reuse any fabricated or purchased parts for othe projects. If it's a waste of time, well, at least I will have gained valuale information and craftsmanship skills. At worst, it would still be more fulfilling and less wasteful than playing a video game or watching TV.
Merkava_4
Banned
Stuey, the board software wouldn't let you use all caps for the title would it? 
Not sure. After the first few responses, I noticed the title too. I don't think that I would have capitalized only the first letter.Stuey, the board software wouldn't let you use all caps for the title would it?
*shrugs* I do know that the forum software combats all-caps sometimes, though, but didn't put two and two together.
G1K
Well-known member
I have a completely scratch built CNC router. I did the machine, computer interface and motor control. It runs from Turbocnc. I mainly use the machine to cut MDF templates which I manufacturer for a concrete etching business. The machine has already paid for itself.
It doesn't look like much, but it works well.
I have a bunch of linear bearings for he next upgrade, I just need to get the time to take it apart and refit everything.\
I don't think it's rigid enough to cut aluminum, but I've never tried. It will do 1/4 - 1/2" deep passes in MDF and hardwood with the feeds dialed down a bit.
R
Ryan
It doesn't look like much, but it works well.
I have a bunch of linear bearings for he next upgrade, I just need to get the time to take it apart and refit everything.\
I don't think it's rigid enough to cut aluminum, but I've never tried. It will do 1/4 - 1/2" deep passes in MDF and hardwood with the feeds dialed down a bit.
R
Ryan
Merkava_4
Banned
theWORLDSaNAIL
Well-known member
Isolation of the the machine is great. To protect any communication point you need to uses opt isolators and EMI circuitry that's going to add a little cost to a good build each isolated motor controller is about $15 for each motor. I not familiar with the Gecko so I dont know if they have take step to protect the communication bus.
As the the thermal cycling it not just the out side inside temperature of the computer or the on versus of temp but using any part of the the system generates small thermal currents as transistor and such power on and off during computer operations and motor control usually has lots of operations so micro thermal currents at chip level are generated reducing the life span for the control system over increasing system errors.
However a true industrial computer is not about technology age there are many that a faster than what you can buy in store for general public now industrial machine come with thermal and electrically protection for use in harsh environments by the way any large inductive load or captive load with swings in voltage or amperage will pose risk to controls unless isolated via optical or radio.
If you would like to know more on the proper design of motor control I can help just PM me the response wont be fast because the subject is complicated and Im very busy working on new control chips for multi-axis control systems at work.
This was my field of undergraduate study in Electrical and Computer Engineering
As the the thermal cycling it not just the out side inside temperature of the computer or the on versus of temp but using any part of the the system generates small thermal currents as transistor and such power on and off during computer operations and motor control usually has lots of operations so micro thermal currents at chip level are generated reducing the life span for the control system over increasing system errors.
However a true industrial computer is not about technology age there are many that a faster than what you can buy in store for general public now industrial machine come with thermal and electrically protection for use in harsh environments by the way any large inductive load or captive load with swings in voltage or amperage will pose risk to controls unless isolated via optical or radio.
If you would like to know more on the proper design of motor control I can help just PM me the response wont be fast because the subject is complicated and Im very busy working on new control chips for multi-axis control systems at work.
This was my field of undergraduate study in Electrical and Computer Engineering
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theworldsanail, thanks for that info - it helps clarify a few things!
This is the Gecko drive I keep reading good things about. (linky) It mentions optoisolation on the signal pins.
In reference to thermal cycling, I figure that as long as I keep them cool, I'm okay, right? One of my PCs is watercooled, and I'm about to do the same with my main PC. I'm usually pretty good about maximizing airflow and whatnot, and never really had any issues, even when running the system to its max.
All I'm saying is that if scores of others are able to run their DIY CNCs and commercially available desktop CNCs with regular consumer-grade computers, then finding a hardened PC to run things will likely be the least of my concerns. There are several other huge obstacles and learning curves in my way.
Still, I will take your words to heart and keep them in mind, especially given your background. I will definitely research more and try to find a solution based on your suggestions. For the time being, the mechanical setup remains my biggest concern. Then will come assembly, then will come motor selection and controller, then will be CAM and controller software, and then finally will be the PC-CNC interface. There's enough on my plate to keep me busy for several years as I cannot devote all of my scant free time to this potential endeavor.
This is the Gecko drive I keep reading good things about. (linky) It mentions optoisolation on the signal pins.
In reference to thermal cycling, I figure that as long as I keep them cool, I'm okay, right? One of my PCs is watercooled, and I'm about to do the same with my main PC. I'm usually pretty good about maximizing airflow and whatnot, and never really had any issues, even when running the system to its max.
All I'm saying is that if scores of others are able to run their DIY CNCs and commercially available desktop CNCs with regular consumer-grade computers, then finding a hardened PC to run things will likely be the least of my concerns. There are several other huge obstacles and learning curves in my way.
Still, I will take your words to heart and keep them in mind, especially given your background. I will definitely research more and try to find a solution based on your suggestions. For the time being, the mechanical setup remains my biggest concern. Then will come assembly, then will come motor selection and controller, then will be CAM and controller software, and then finally will be the PC-CNC interface. There's enough on my plate to keep me busy for several years as I cannot devote all of my scant free time to this potential endeavor.
theWORLDSaNAIL
Well-known member
Good clean air flow is key to these systems you have that right. I know I'm come off as suggesting you need an industrial computer but you don't you just need to take the correct precautions like using a parallel port pci card instead of the main board parallel port, good solid grounds to everything, and a good case that can act as a debris shield and help dissipate heat this wont take you as long as you think and for desktop CNC some of the new intel atom boards are the best thing to run them. Were using six in a lockstep setup to control a precision micro vertical mill but one board and processor should more that meet your needs
Sounds good! If I use one of my existing PCs, I'll definitely add on a parallel port via PCI or PCIe if available. A PCI parallel port is cheap enough - $20-$30, so it wouldn't make sense not to add one, even as a precaution.
I was wondering (hoping) if an atom board would be sufficient. I have an atom-based netbook, and while it defnitely drags down sometimes, it *should* be able to handle low-intensity programs.
If I get anything done while still living in an apartment, I would attempt to shield the entire machine with plexi, or would set it up outside somewhere during use.
Thank you again for the clarification and suggestions!
theWORLDSaNAIL
Well-known member
The atoms are very powerful they're just handy capped with the Microsoft software and java heavy Linux net books we run a stripped down custom Linux kernel and interface on our boards and they will flat out beat are P3 system interface head.
I dont know how familiar you are with linux systems but I would highly recomder EMC Linux for the control software on your machine that is what I have running on my home machine. How ever it is an 3000+ AMD 64 with 2GB of ram that I use as the master control on the mill but my motor controllers are semi programmable.
The Gecko link you sent was helpful they seem to have a pretty respectable system for small work control I think I would recommend you user there product however they do charge alot for what it is that control really should be something close to 75 to 100 bucks at least It will take care of the EMI stuff for you.
I dont know how familiar you are with linux systems but I would highly recomder EMC Linux for the control software on your machine that is what I have running on my home machine. How ever it is an 3000+ AMD 64 with 2GB of ram that I use as the master control on the mill but my motor controllers are semi programmable.
The Gecko link you sent was helpful they seem to have a pretty respectable system for small work control I think I would recommend you user there product however they do charge alot for what it is that control really should be something close to 75 to 100 bucks at least It will take care of the EMI stuff for you.
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I've heard about EMC and if I ever get things going, I'll try it out along with a free trial of Mach3. I've read about a few issues putting Linux on netbooks, but I don't think there would be issues with an atom desktop/mini atx board.
I've been pouring over a lot of the threads over at cnczone, and there are a handful of controllers that keep coming up in discussion. It looks as though there are cheaper options, but the Gecko 540 is touted as offering the best protection and easiest setup. The controller contains four ~$60 controllers, and so the extra protection + breakout board adds maybe $60 to the cost of the board itself.
I'm not familiar with Linux at all. But, I like to think that I'm a quick learner. That's also why I'll try to plan on the mechanics first, then work on learning the software and how to get models from napkin to g-code, and then will purchase electronics and work on the interface. Eventually. Hopefully.
I've been pouring over a lot of the threads over at cnczone, and there are a handful of controllers that keep coming up in discussion. It looks as though there are cheaper options, but the Gecko 540 is touted as offering the best protection and easiest setup. The controller contains four ~$60 controllers, and so the extra protection + breakout board adds maybe $60 to the cost of the board itself.
I'm not familiar with Linux at all. But, I like to think that I'm a quick learner. That's also why I'll try to plan on the mechanics first, then work on learning the software and how to get models from napkin to g-code, and then will purchase electronics and work on the interface. Eventually. Hopefully.
MXtras
Well-known member
So you might have run across my thread (Bridgeport CNC conversion):
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10535
It's been a while since I updated.
Scott
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10535
It's been a while since I updated.
Scott
We're currently working on this machine at school.
Last years students built it and assembled the mechanicals and stepper drivers.
Now we're working on the electronics and controls.
We're using the Gecko G-rex controller (ethernet connection to Mach3) and Gecko G210 drivers.
We have have a cheap chinese 24 000 rpm spindle, but we are on the lookout for a spindle with automatic tool change (ATC).
Last years students built it and assembled the mechanicals and stepper drivers.
Now we're working on the electronics and controls.
We're using the Gecko G-rex controller (ethernet connection to Mach3) and Gecko G210 drivers.
We have have a cheap chinese 24 000 rpm spindle, but we are on the lookout for a spindle with automatic tool change (ATC).
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