Co-op/shared space

[68steiny]

I'm sure this has been visited before, but why not bring it back up.

I'm in Chicago, I'd like to explore a shared garage space where equipment is available to everyone in the shop and then you can lock up your personal tools and vehicle/project in your bay.

But having stuff available such as a mill, lathe, sandblaster, compressor, etc. would be great. Bolt it to the floor and put some cameras in there. I know there are liability issues, but I don't know what they are...?

Any ideas?

 

[GoodoleBoy]

You may trust your shop partner but do you trust his friends,family, and acquaintances around your most valuable tools? They may come with him and they could spread the word to bad elements of society that the shop has X types of tools ect. I dont even like to let people know what i own alot of times.

Depends on who you can trust..

 

[Packard V8]

The idea has been around as long as tools and seldom-to-never works.

But having stuff available such as a mill, lathe, sandblaster, compressor, etc. would be great.

How do you qualify the operators? One second of numbnuts carelessness or lack of expertise can turn a mill or lathe into scrap iron and kill or cripple the operator and bystanders.

How does the liability insurance get assigned and paid for? In the SF Bay Area thirty-five years ago, a co-op had "hold-harmless" signed statements from every member. One numbnuts incorrectly positioned the hoist arms and his car fell off, wrecking the car and injuring him. Despite the seemingly bulletproof membership disclaimers, the liberal SF jury awarded the injured member huge damages against all the other members.

jack vines

 

[bhclark]

We had a local "membership" place here that I was a belonged to. Paint booth, powder coating, auto lifts, and all. Each area had a small "rental" fee.
It was open about a year before closing down....huge loss, but I'm sure it had to do with liability.
It's now a collision and towing shop.

 

[tuber]

There are woodworking clubs in some areas - I believe they are set up as a business, selling memberships for access. Not quite a co-op, but I think achieves the same or similar goal

http://www.sawdustshop.com/

http://woodworkersclub.com/

 

[Grumpy365]

I think it would be a bad idea. Here is where it has been covered before.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4950&referrerid=47711

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89323&referrerid=47711

 

[Modern Jess]

I currently belong to a co-op like this in San Francisco. We're currently at 5 members, and we share a common machine room (with the big tools) and then have a larger area that's been divvied up into individual spaces. The whole thing is housed in a larger building full of other industrial-arts type tenants (artists, machinists, makers, woodworkers, and so on).

The number of members we have is limited primarily by the amount of floor space in the large room, where our private areas are. There are tape marks on the floor delineating the areas, but other than that, there's no real separation. We don't lock up our private areas or anything. No cameras either.

For us, it works very well. We trust each other, and it hasn't been a problem. Members tend to be fairly stable, and stick around for several years at a time. A few members have been there from the beginning.

The general rule of thumb about breakage of the shared equipment is that if you break it, you fix it. Yes, we do break stuff. Again, it's never been a problem: whoever broke something fixes what they broke. The worst that's ever happened (that I'm aware of) is things like a few missing drill bits from a complete jobber set that disappeared, and nobody ever stepped up and said they had borrowed them.

We each sign a sublease as part of being a member, along with a waiver stating that anyone who isn't comfortable with the inherent dangers of the machinery shouldn't use the machinery. Seems pretty simple to me.

So yes, it can work. I also don't doubt that it can fail spectacularly.

 

[r6_cannibal]

there are some already established, we have one here in san diego and a couple up in LA. they call them "hacker space". community driven and usually a pretty cool group. there might be one up in your area, they seem to be sprining up all over the country

 

[Stuart in MN]

This is a facility in the Minneapolis area: http://firstgeargarage.com/ It's a commercial enterprise, they have garage space with lifts and tools, and you can rent space there by the hour or day. Not really the same thing you're thinking of but it may give you some ideas.

 

[68steiny]

Thanks for the input, seems like the hardest part is finding people you are comfortable working/owning a space with....

I'm happy to see that they are working here, but I can imagine it can turn into a disaster quickly, if not managed properly. Seems like any other kind of business you get in to, you need to be there, have common sense, and have people around you can trust, and not let the costs get out of control. Not really interested in making money on it, but just making sure the bills are paid and everyone is happy.

Lots of car guys in Chicago and plenty of large facilities available. Right now I have to drive 50 miles out of Chicago to work on my truck and it is still worth it to me.

 

[Grumpy365]

I currently belong to a co-op like this in San Francisco. We're currently at 5 members, and we share a common machine room (with the big tools) and then have a larger area that's been divvied up into individual spaces. The whole thing is housed in a larger building full of other industrial-arts type tenants (artists, machinists, makers, woodworkers, and so on).

The number of members we have is limited primarily by the amount of floor space in the large room, where our private areas are. There are tape marks on the floor delineating the areas, but other than that, there's no real separation. We don't lock up our private areas or anything. No cameras either.

For us, it works very well. We trust each other, and it hasn't been a problem. Members tend to be fairly stable, and stick around for several years at a time. A few members have been there from the beginning.

The general rule of thumb about breakage of the shared equipment is that if you break it, you fix it. Yes, we do break stuff. Again, it's never been a problem: whoever broke something fixes what they broke. The worst that's ever happened (that I'm aware of) is things like a few missing drill bits from a complete jobber set that disappeared, and nobody ever stepped up and said they had borrowed them.

We each sign a sublease as part of being a member, along with a waiver stating that anyone who isn't comfortable with the inherent dangers of the machinery shouldn't use the machinery. Seems pretty simple to me.

So yes, it can work. I also don't doubt that it can fail spectacularly.

Dude, that's super cool





BUT one ******* who succumbs to the draw of meth or crack could potentially ruin your club.

(and don't say, that couldn't happen here. I have seen good, hard working people, go from outstanding people, to thieving bastards, in relatively short order)

Your tetering on the edge of statistics. 80% of the people are good honorable people, but 20 % are dishonorable and untrustworthy. ( 1 in 5).













Please note any statistics used here are strictly made up based on my personnel experience and can't be verified.

 

[68steiny]

Stuart,

That firstgeargarage seems like a great idea, I hope they do well. Come work on your car, rent space, and if you can't fix it...we can. Kinda neat.

 

[StanBo]

Hey 68Steiny what did you end up doing? I have some friends that are looking to set up a shared space.

 

[landydoni]

I have a similar thing going. My self and four friends/aquaintances rent a 60'x80' barn/shop that we have devided into 4 sections. We share larger equipment and all have our own smaller hand tools/ work areas. Its great for motivation on projects, plus there's usually always somebody around if you need an extra set of hands. While I'd rather have my own space, there is no way I could afford it at the moment so this is a good option. It helps that I can trust everybody though and I know they treat my tools as well if not better than I do.

 

[StanBo]

Did you leave things up in the air or did you hammer out what you thought might happen?

How long have you guys been up and running?

 

[landydoni]

Did you leave things up in the air or did you hammer out what you thought might happen?

How long have you guys been up and running?

Stanbo: If that was directed my way, we never had a sit down meeting but we discuss issues as they arrive. Like I said though, since we all know each other we respect each others property. If we use each others consumables they get replaced as well as broken or damaged tools.

We've been sharing the space for a year now. It can work out well.

 

[supra90turbo]

I have a similar thing going. My self and four friends/aquaintances rent a 60'x80' barn/shop that we have devided into 4 sections. We share larger equipment and all have our own smaller hand tools/ work areas. Its great for motivation on projects, plus there's usually always somebody around if you need an extra set of hands. While I'd rather have my own space, there is no way I could afford it at the moment so this is a good option. It helps that I can trust everybody though and I know they treat my tools as well if not better than I do.

Similar situation.
I've headed up a garage rental with my brother and my buddy for the past 6 years.
People have come and gone, but it's always been us 3. It's a great way to spend time with your buddies and get some work accomplished. We rent an ex-machine shop that's a pretty good size place. It has it's ups and downs, but if you get the right group of people, you can't beat it.

However... People are brazen. Watch your *** if you do pull the trigger, people get entitled REAL quick. Select your tenants carefully. I have, and still get screwed over. I've had a guy not pay me rent for 2 months so I padlocked the door. He broke in, destroying the door in the process and took all of his stuff, none of mine or anyone elses.

Another guy just last month moved out and that's a huge sigh of relief.
Long story short, he rented one bay, ended up with 3 cars in the garage, all huge projects and refused to move out. Claimed I owed him money and refused to move out. Quick threat to report all of the cars abandoned got everything moved out in a couple days, but serves as a grim reminder to keep it to the core group of guys that make it work.

We treat each others tools as or better than our own, and use rent money surplus to buy goodies like a press, chopsaw, consumables, etc.