CO2 / Generators

[kwb]

If the O2 levels drop that much your genset is either going to run like **** or isn't going to run either - remember it needs the O2 to make that whole combustion cycle work.

 

[HOTFR8]

PM'd so we dont clog up the thread

It may sound dumb but is propane any safer to run indoors i meen thats why forklifts are propane right not that im going to try

Still emits exhaust fumes. Still dangerous.

 

[Burtonrider10022]

Where can you get one of these kits for tri fuel or propane. I bought a older Miller welder/generator on a trailer and would like to do this.

Most common places I've seen are:

http://www.propane-generators.com/ (some RV/Camper sites have claimed poor customer service, do your research)

http://www.propanecarbs.com/small_engines.html (I e-mailed this guy a week or so ago and got no response - and I DID include my number)

http://www.propane-conversions.com/generators/


The top link is by far the largest producer, FYI.

 

[theoldwizard1]

We're not discussing confined spaces in particular, my point largely centres on an oxygen depleted atmosphere, a concept which you demonstrate on one hand that you understand by making reference to a CO2 protected computer room, and then on the other choose to deem it all as paranoia by attempting to claim the same rules dont apply in a different enclosed space ..

Then you missed my point completely !

I don't consider a 2 car detached garage with a huge door an "enclosed space", when opening the garage door (several times more area than the doors to a computer room) provides adequate ventilation, even after an internal combustion engine was running, inside, for an extended period.

Common sense (which is not very common these days) dictates that only the large doors should be used to enter/exit and not the man door. Of course this is the classic "plan ahead". Detach the door opener mechanism so that it can be manually operated before starting the generator.

At some point after a few hours of running, the generator will need re-fuelling. My guess is that the atmosphere inside the building regardless of wether its detached or not is going to be Oxygen depleted and unable to properly support human life, and hence potentially deadly. Why take the risk when you you dont need to.

Paranoia is a GOOD THING for people with little common sense.

Most detached garage are not insulated and leak air like a sieve. Oxygen depletion after the main door is open is highly unlikely. CO poisoning can be minimized by leaving the generator close to the main door.

Life has risks. I still walk on the sidewalk although I know a car could jump the curb and kill me.

 

[theoldwizard1]

It may sound dumb but is propane any safer to run indoors i meen thats why forklifts are propane right not that im going to try

Another common sense question.

Yes, they run propane powered forklifts is large warehouses. Those places typically have large open shipping dock doors, leak air like a sieve and have large circulation/exhaust fans.

Think about how many cubic feet of air is in a large warehouse compared to a typical home. Even a poorly insulated house is "tighter" than a warehouse/factory.


As for safer, not long ago, dozens of people had to be treated for CO poisoning at an indoor ice area because of a poorly running propane Zamboni. Most just had headaches and nausea.

 

[rlitman]

Just as an example. I had my 5000 W generator in my 2 car garage, set straddling the door threshold, with the exhaust pointed out. I closed the door as much as possible, so the door bottom was just over the generator. Within an hour of running, my CO detector in my detached garage was going off. Just a gentle breeze was enough to push dangerous concentrations of CO into the garage, even though the exhaust was completely outside of the garage.

OTOH, with my 1000W generator, I was able to extend the exhaust with a foot long pipe through a small hole in the door, and run continuously with no issues.

 

[Stuart in MN]

So, what's the reasoning for wanting to run the generator in the garage anyway? To protect it from the weather?

 

[Burtonrider10022]

So, what's the reasoning for wanting to run the generator in the garage anyway? To protect it from the weather?

Yeah. But more so from theft. Generators are worth their weight in gold in the n/e right now

 

[shovelhead91701]

Not if you do it right. Your pipe just needs to be much bigger than the outlet hole of the muffler.

I have my welder/generator in a similar situation. Basically an area next to my garage. A solid PVC fence encloses it on the side opposite to the garage, and the top is enclosed by an awning. One end is pretty open, the other is only partly open.

My solution was to use a 4" vent pipe that goes up 6' to a rain cap. It is attached to the end of the awning, with a contraption I made to insulated the wood from the heat of the stack, with a pair of elbows that keep the generator out of the rain.
That 4" stack points up. The generator points horizontal.
So, I used a 1 1/2" brass drain elbow that's 18" long. It is just a little bigger than the output of the muffler. It turns the exhaust up, and then extends 18", with just about all of the straight part going into the 4" pipe. I cut the brass in three slots at the end to keep it centered in the 4" pipe, punched a bunch of holes in it, and wrapped it in stainless pot scrubbers from the dollar store. A poor man's glass pack muffler, if you can picture it.
Now, the exhaust goes out over the roof, and the sound is much better too.

With the venturi effect, you can feel the open bottom of the 4" pipe sucking in cool air. Above where the brass ends, the pipe gets hot, but still nowhere near as hot as the muffler, as so much cool air gets mixed in.

Agreed, I was picturing him welding an extension to the pipe just to make it longer. Your idea is basically an exhaust "chimney" and I see no problems with that! We have a lot of redneck engineers here who weld glasspacks onto the exhaust of their welders to "quiet 'er down" and then when they burn valves I can't make them understand why it happened.
I really like your idea though..... going to file that one away for later use!

 

[jjpp]

I'm guilty of running mine in the garage when the power is out and I have to go to work, I just put it in the middle of the garage with no combustibles around and a box fan pointing out an open window.

 

[cafyrman]

CO is roughly the same weight as air. So convection, etc. will affect how it travels.

I went to a fire the other day and had my blood CO levels tested after, since that's our new practice. I hadn't been in the building very long at all (<15 min) and there was no fire or smoke at all in there when I went in. My blood CO was 4%. So yeah, it can sneak up on you easily. I'll start making the troops test atmospheric CO more often now.

 

[Sureshot]

I used silicone heater hose to extend my exhaust on a Yamaha inverter.

 

[Burtonrider10022]

I used silicone heater hose to extend my exhaust on a Yamaha inverter.

Link and price? I've been looking around, but I have no idea where to find a cheap source. I'm thinking about doing 2" EMT conduit down from the roof vent, and then a decent length of silicone hose to the genny. I want to be able to run the genny in various locations if necessary (within the garage & maybe a 5-7' radius, depending on which project is in the garage at the time.