Code compliant way to bring exposed nm-b into drywall

[anythingyoucanimagine]

I have exposed nm-b (romex) tacked to the walls in my garage. Garage has drywall. Looks like someone nailed some 1x8 to the studs over the drywall so there was something to staple the wire to. All the exposed wire is up higher than 8-feet. (my state is nec 2017) I'd like to put in several receptacles along the side and back garage walls.

I know conduit would be the easy answer. I'm trying to avoid conduit. I'd like everything to be flush in the walls with no boxes or conduit sticking out to snag on things.


How do I pass the exposed romex up high, through the drywall and run it down the wall inside the stud cavity? Only thing I can come up with is to mount a 2-gang new work box to a stud up high. Box will then be flush with the drywall. Then attach a box extender with knockouts and bring the nm-b into the wall that way?? It will probably be code compliant, just seems pretty hack. Not very eloquent. Wondering if there is any other way to accomplish this (without external conduit).


Thanks.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

can you post some pics

 

[alfredeneuman]

How do I pass the exposed romex up high, through the drywall and run it down the wall inside the stud cavity?

Unless it's a firewall (common wall to the living area and the garage), and if it's above 8' just run the wire through the wall.

 

[sberry]

Poke hole in wall, drop a string with nut on it or fiber glass rod to the box cutout, pull wire.

 

[strutaeng]

Wiremold? I've never used that stuff, but still see it at the big box stores. I'm assuming it is allowed by the code?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000VYHRBU/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I would personally do THHN in EMT, though.

 

[anythingyoucanimagine]

I don't think so but I'm not sure. It's telling me I need 5 post-count to post links and I'm not at the house.


When you are facing the house from the street, the roof line is parallel with the street and the garage door. There is a gutter over the garage door and then the roof slopes up then back down to the back of the garage. The electric service comes in on the side of the garage. The gable side. You can almost think of the wall with the panel on it as being two pieces, one 8'x24' rectangle with sill plates, top plates and studs, and then a triangle (gable) on top of it.


That side wall with the triangle on top is insulated and (very poorly) finished with drywall. That is also the wall where the panel is. (where service entrance is) We just bought it as our second home, I wish I was there to take pictures. There was a flush mount panel and looks like someone changed it out to a surface mount at some point. Looks like they did the drywall around that time too.


When the panel was flush mount the garage was completely unfinished. The conductors came out the top of the panel, went up through the top plate then stapled (to the top plates) and went across to the house.


Looks like when they did the drywall, insulation and surface mount panel, they took the conductors out from passing through the top plate and just ran everything surface mount on wood screwed to the studs (over the drywall).


Hope this is making sense so far.


Currently there is a surface mount panel attached to a sheet of plywood and a 1x8 wood strip running up across the gable wall. That 1x8 wood strip is just there for the staples that hold the wires. That 1x8 plank brings the conductors going into the house over to a 2x6 that runs across the garage to the common wall (firewall) of the house. So that's how the house gets electric.


I'd like to add a few more garage circuits and put receptacles along the walls at roughly hip-height off the slab. I'm fine coming out of the panel and up to 8-feet with exposed nm-b, then across the gable wall at height where it can be exposed. But I can't just run the nm-b down the drywall unprotected. I'd like to put it in the wall and bring it down to the outlet boxes that way, except I know you can't just drill a 1/2" hole in drywall and start shoving romex into a stud cavity. Literally looking for help with that transition from nm-b running outside the drywall to running inside the stud cavity.


Rather than running conduit up and out the panel, then across the garage wall and drop down to receptacles, I'd rather run exposed nm-b up & out the panel, across over the top plates... then shove it in the wall (behind the drywall) and run it down to the receptacle outlet boxes that way.


Make any more sense?


I might take down the drywall this weekend. (hanging new will be faster than trying to fix the garbage that's there) If I do that, I can put some 4x4 new work boxes up high and use the box as a way to get the wire in the wall. The boxes would end up being flush with the new drywall which is why I'd need to use extensions with knockouts. I don't really like that solution. It feels wrong. There would be many more points of failure, metal boxes need grounding, would look ugly, etc. (but it would work... I think)



I'll try and see if I can find some pictures. I think she's got the thing from the home inspector in her email somewhere. Sorry for all text no pics.

Thanks.

 

[anythingyoucanimagine]

OK I can link. This thread:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=335947&showall=1

photobucket link:

https://photobucket.com/gallery/use...GF0aDovSU1HXzE1ODZfenBzanJxcnltZWIuanBn/?ref=



First picture in the thread. See how the 12ga nm-b runs across the top of the door then takes a bend down to the switch and the receptacle?


I want to put that portion (below 8-feet) behind the drywall.


Make sense now?


Only thing I can come up with is to put a 4x4 workbox on the stud where the nm-b takes the 90 and heads down. Then run the wire into the workbox for transition into the wall. Make any sense?


Thanks.

 

[Phantomd]

I would rewire with conduit and THHN wire. Take the existing NM wire into a box and then switch to THHN in conduit. I THINK you can do the change above the rafters (with exposed rafters) otherwise all boxes have to be accessible.

There is a NM to conduit connector available but the NM in conduit can't be more then 10' (dont quote me on that)


Keep in mind that code can be very regional specific. some places you can be very easy, and then there is the chicagoland area where ALL wiring needs to be inside conduit, even inside a wall.

 

[tyme2par4]

as sberry said, I don't believe there is anything not compliant about just running the wire through a hole in the drywall.
If you aren't comfortable with that, I would get a LV bracket and then a face plate with a cable clamp.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-...-SearchPLPHorizontal1_rr-_-NA-_-100160916-_-N

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I would rewire with conduit and THHN wire. Take the existing NM wire into a box and then switch to THHN in conduit. I THINK you can do the change above the rafters (with exposed rafters) otherwise all boxes have to be accessible.

There is a NM to conduit connector available but the NM in conduit can't be more then 10' (dont quote me on that)


Keep in mind that code can be very regional specific. some places you can be very easy, and then there is the chicagoland area where ALL wiring needs to be inside conduit, even inside a wall.

There is no code limiting NM-b to no more than 10' in conduit.

 

[anythingyoucanimagine]

I've been trying to avoid conduit like the plague but I think it may finally be time.


We just bought a disaster ski/vacation cabin type thing. It's 1500sq/ft including the 1-car attached garage. Technically we bought it as-is and technically the CO (occupancy cert) is revoked or suspended by AHJ. It's a little bit of a grey area though... AHJ has been very "accommodating" and "flexible" with our "fix prior homeowner mistakes" plan. (almost too accommodating and too flexible, it's weird)


We thought the house was in a little better condition than it is. I recently flipped --well not flipped, I fixed up our home (total gut/reno) that we currently live in and I fixed up a home two blocks over that we still own and a family member lives there. We somewhat bought this place sight-unseen. (never did a walkthrough but had detailed photos) I thought the place was in a little better condition than its current state. I'm feeling old and tired. This was supposed to be a nice little ski cabin on a lake that we could use year round (and I don't want to deal with conduit). It's basically a borderline condemned disaster that probably needs to be put into a dumpster. (and I still don't want to deal with conduit)


It's a 1-car garage attached to a tiny little house. I'm not trying to compete with Jay Leno's garage. Short-term I need to get the space functional enough that I have lights and power. I want to grab a couple free kitchen/dining room tables off Craigslist to use as workbenches and I have an old 900-pound 12" radial arm saw I'll throw up against a wall. (I'm old, and old-school, I like my radial arm saws)


Longer-term, once the home has a CO and we can legally stay there --I envision the garage as a giant mudroom. Back the car into the driveway, raise the garage door and have the kids unpack and take their clothes off: so I don't sound like a pedo... I mean take off wet/muddy/snowy clothes, hang up ski stuff, unpack and lay out their **** so it can dry for the next morning, etc. At same time I'd like the garage to be an open and finished-ish (inviting) space so maybe one day if the stars and moon are all aligned, wife & I can get away for a night/weekend and park a car in there.


I don't really want conduit on the walls because I want it to feel like a room inside the house. Also, I can 10,000% guarantee that if there is conduit running up the walls the kids will lean their (wet/icy) skis against it --and that's not really what conduit is meant for... The garage will be insulated properly. It will essentially be an extension of the house (except common firewall prevents that). The washer & dryer are out there --it's a weird setup with very thick common wall/firewall between house and attached garage, DWV, septic dump, plumbing, hvac, electrical chase, etc. all in that wall as if it were an after-thought, or maybe as if it were a house designed on a slab then they threw a basement in last-minute? Either way, the garage will be a conditioned space and I'd like it to feel like it is part of the home, not a garage.


My plan was/is to leave the (technically rafter ties and collar ties) exposed but finish/drywall the underside of the roof deck and the walls. For the nm-b/romex up higher than eight feet, I'll case it in something (accessible) like old barnwood veneer or I'll antique some 1/4" finish ply and figure something out.


Yes, I suppose that I could case and cover conduit too, except I already own the wire and like I said, I am willing to bet a year's worth of my salary that my (wonderful) children will use conduit as a leaning post for their wet/snowy/icy ski and outside ****.


There is enough extra wire in the structure (runs are all crazy long) to wire three houses and I have half spools of various /2 and /3 at home. (I'd be golden if you could use /4 with split phase). I'm trying to work within the framework of what I have. Personally I own benders but I've never really done proper/legit conduit. Is it a barrier to entry thing? I remember going from NPT to pvc and glue for plumbing stuff. That was an amazing transition. Is conduit that easy?


I just want to find an eloquent solution to transition (complaint) exposed nm-b into a stud cavity (behind drywall). I'm equally worried about my wife getting a snag or a pull in her clothes from the conduit as I am with my kids leaning stuff on the vertical runs.


OH --my first comment, avoiding conduit but it might be time: the idiot who installed the air handler and central AC was an idiot. I need to put down a pad, disconnect, wire it properly. Currently it is 10/2 just drilled through the wall and running direct to the compressor. So I have to deal with properly wiring a 2-ton residential AC unit: I think that means flex outdoor plastic (I know nothing about conduit)... something rated for water/weather >> disconnect box >> I assume rigid plastic/pvc because going from outside to inside >> some type of box so I can transition to metal because pvc conduit inside is ghetto... Which also means I don't think you can (or want to) strip NM-B and shove it through pipe because you probably want stranded and thhn doesn't have a W. No idea how to properly wire the outside part of an AC unit. Time to Google.


I also have to deal with the SE conductors between meter and panel. I want them in conduit. Have to ask AHJ about that. I'm comfortable pulling the meter and dicking around in the panel but unless PoCo disconnects I'm not sure I want to attempt swapping out service entrance wires. (I think I'm going to need new/longer (and maybe different type) if I run through conduit. Have to Google stuff like drip loops or how not to F-up your meter from water/weather. Meter is ghetto (drywall screws) to the house and overhead is below zoning minimum height. Need to sort a mast, weatherhead and whatever else. Also proper backer plate and flashing (over cedar shingles) for meter-box-to-house interface. This weekend will be fun fun...



Any tips, pointers or advice would be MUCH appreciated. NEC 2017. As far as I know, ahj has no requirements over ibc 2009 or nec 2017 other than a couple very clearly defined snow load items.


I know nothing about bringing power into a home or bringing power from inside to outside a home. Even website links would be a huge help. Thanks.


Sorry my posts/questions are so long. Hopefully I can learn enough that I'll be able to help and give back soon. Thanks again.

 

[anythingyoucanimagine]

as sberry said, I don't believe there is anything not compliant about just running the wire through a hole in the drywall.
If you aren't comfortable with that, I would get a LV bracket and then a face plate with a cable clamp.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-...-SearchPLPHorizontal1_rr-_-NA-_-100160916-_-N

Thanks. Aesthetically that might work and might be perfect. Is that compliant?


If I have nm-b stapled (3m cable stackers) across a board and then I install an orange (LV) box, do I need a face plate with a clamp or can I staple to a stud and pass the nm-b through a brushed cover plate like this??

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-1-Gang-Brush-Plate-White-5038-WH/207161871

 

[acer66]

I ran nm in conduit in up to the top plate 9’ high and continued to staple it to the top plate.
They sell a plastic bushings that slides on the end of the emt to protect the nm.
Passed instection under the NEC2014.

 

[slow]

unless you feel you will be opening pandoras box of unknown issues, I would remove the drywall, run the wires you want (either in conduit or nm,-b, insulate the garage and redrywall the walls. If you are going to finish the roof anyways, a few walls are cheap and easy to open up.

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

Its easy to snake a wire down a cavity and install an old work box... a little harder if there's insulation. However to go horizontally from bay to bay without removing some drywall is impossible unless you have access to the top or bottom plate area of the wall.

What's it worth to you? Removing drywall to reroute some wires. Or just install conduct... nothing wrong especially since its a garage setting.

 

[anythingyoucanimagine]

unless you feel you will be opening pandoras box of unknown issues, I would remove the drywall, run the wires you want (either in conduit or nm,-b, insulate the garage and redrywall the walls. If you are going to finish the roof anyways, a few walls are cheap and easy to open up.

Understood loud and clear. A sheet of firecode is $12 and I own an insulation blower machine. This is what I'm leaning towards. I guess I'll just nail plate the **** out of everything and have at it.


Ever put a nail gun up to a nail plate just for fun?

BMW

Who are you and where do you live? I have R75, R90, e36 328is, 1970 2002 up on rotisserie in my garage, a bunch of motors & transmissions on racks as spares, I shared/split a spec e30 with a friend about 10 years back (before kids)... I drive an e46 touring and she's got an x5. So again... Who are you and where do you live. (hello bmw friend, excellent username)

 

[alfredeneuman]

Ever put a nail gun up to a nail plate just for fun?

No, but I've had siding guys using nail guns drive nails right through the plates and the NM.

(I used a 1 pound torpedo shaped fishing weight on a string or chain to fish wires through walls. When insulation was involved just dropped it right behind the drywall and it would plunge between the 2)

 

[anythingyoucanimagine]

No, but I've had siding guys using nail guns drive nails right through the plates and the NM.

It is a bit shocking. (similar to armored glass) Straight on a 16ga finish nail goes straight through like it was wood. They aren't nail plates they are screw stoppers. 99.9% of homeowners don't have compressors or nail guns. (with battery/cordless I assume that will change) Today, if you are using a hammer or a screw the nail plate will work. If you have a nail gun in your hand you should be smart enough to know better (or fix the issue).


With batteries --good luck. All kinds of idiots can nail anything, anywhere.

 

[DieselNut88]

I would run in through the attic if you have access. Then drop it down the wall cavity and use old work boxes.

 

[anythingyoucanimagine]

No attic. Attached garage and house with second story. When I look up in garage I see bottom of roof deck. I think I'm going to nuke the drywall in garage this weekend just so I have a good platform to start with. Not exactly where I'll go from there. This is in Vermont. I'd like a surface mount panel (eventually I'll buy a generator).

Just never dealt with surface mount panel with garage receptacles inside the walls.

 

[TractorJeff]

I would assume that if you want to heat it as an accessory room, then strip it bare and start the whole thing from scratch!
I would assume a surface mount panel would fit between two studs and be able to attach from the sides into the studs?
All your wiring would be inside the walls then.
Think Better Re-Sale Value!

 

[anythingyoucanimagine]

Think Better Re-Sale Value!

I never thought of that. Maybe I'm weird... I always thought a surface mount panel was better (so I could mess with it, do stuff without permits, violate NEC, etc).


Do people really like surface mount panels better? This is in northern VT. I thought insulation would trump panel mounting style. Honestly I also thought that the visual of neat and organized wires would be a selling point too. I tell people all the time "if the panel looks like you could eat out of it you are good to go, if it looks like a rat's nest --run!"

edit: technically my goal is to have the garage classified as "semi-finished". Fully finished but without hvac (this is for property taxes). In summer I can run dehumidifier and in winter the boiler keeps it at ~50F as-is, that will get better once I'm done.