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Code Enforcement Question

foamer01

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Oct 18, 2011
Messages
245
Hi,
I would like to hear from someone with knowledge regarding code enforcement. In my region building is almost non existent, and our code people are literally driving the roads "looking" for work being done. So here is my hypothetical; I install a garage heater and vent it outside of course, code inspector drives by and sees the pipe coming out the wall. Do they have the right to come on the property and inspect? Any information regarding this I would be interested in.
Thanks,
Foamer
 
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rickairmedic

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May 31, 2005
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4,165
Location
louisville ,Ky
I think it depends on location . Here in Louisville yes they can as lo ng as its not behind a fence and even then they can look over a fence . Here you need to pull a permit even for a garage install .


Rick
 

hlp-3

New member
Joined
Sep 13, 2011
Messages
3
Location
Dallas, Texas
Generally they should ask to gain access. Your choice to accept or deny, however a court order is not hard to get with just cause. Short answer yes.
 

KELLHAMMER

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Joined
Nov 20, 2006
Messages
222
Location
south eastern pennsylvania
If you choose not to pull a permit for the install, then make sure you follow the manuf. installation instructions and adhere to all relevant code issues. If they catch you and do an inspection all you may be faced with is paying for the cost of the permit. Install it wrong and it could get more expensive
 

ptschram

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Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Messages
2,573
Location
Churubusco, IN
The code enforcement folks in my old town are part of the police department.

They're pretty damned aggressive.

The building department might be worse as they do exactly what you've described and are quick to issue stop-work notices if a permit wasn't issued.
 

kbs2244

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Nov 11, 2006
Messages
14,065
“I am from the government. I am here to help you.”
They don’t say “Even of you don’t want the help.”

The short answer to your question is “Yes, in one way or another.”
They can get a warrant if they need to.

I don’t know if you would need a permit in your area for adding a heater.
If so, it would probably be for a safety inspection.
Real estate tax inspections usually are reserved for anything adding permanent square footage.
 

K'ledgeBldr

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Aug 22, 2011
Messages
1,925
Location
Johns Creek, GA
Instead of speculating here-
Just call the building department and ask if a permit would be required for something like that. If so, then you can get more details as far as what they require, want, or approve.
I can't imagine a permit for something like that being more than $50.
 
OP
F

foamer01

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Joined
Oct 18, 2011
Messages
245
Is there a reason you don't want to pull a permit for the installation? That would eliminate any worries.

I guess cost and additional tax is my main concern as well as the government looking over my shoulder. A simple electrical permit cost me $350.00 on this project. I am sick and tired of more taxes, however I will not go down that road.
And then to see these guys driving around drumming up business.
 

Knuckle Buster

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Joined
May 28, 2011
Messages
685
Location
Middle TN
Wow, reading this I feel lucky to live here. We have no building permits, only septic before you build a house. Far as a shop goes, the county is a free as you wish sorta way as there are no zoning rules or codes to keep you from it.
 

hevymtl

New member
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Messages
1
The bigger issue is not so much the code official, but the insurance company. If a permit and inspection was needed and not gotten, then if there was a fire, the insurance company could tell you to pound sand because you didn't get the permit and the required inspections. Most new codes are being pushed by insurance companies, banks and the fire lobby for issues like this. Got to follow the money!
 

darkk

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Joined
Dec 24, 2009
Messages
3,361
Location
Willimantic, Ct.
Where I live you don't need a permit if you are the property owner and the property is you primary residence.
 

camarotoolman

Banned
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Mar 12, 2011
Messages
2,372
Location
cocoa Fl.
Around here it depends if someone turns you in. They don't come out unless there is a complaint. I'm extra nice to my neighors.
 

jgwood

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Jan 11, 2008
Messages
99
Has been a contractor for 25 yrs.#1 do not listen to anyone here. #2Talk to an attorney in you area
 

Foxxtrot

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May 23, 2011
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100
Location
Huntersville, NC
Has been a contractor for 25 yrs.#1 do not listen to anyone here. #2Talk to an attorney in you area

A little over the top, don't you think? :lol_hitti I think the suggestion of calling the building department is a sound one. That would tell you the answer as to whether or not you need a permit. As has been said, more than likely, unless you are in the sticks, you probably need a permit, and they have the right to come tell you that. :bounce:
 

mad57

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Jan 30, 2009
Messages
1,698
I would call from a pay phone(if you can find one) and see what they say. than i would just install it on a sunday. If its your primary you should be able to install it your self, if its a rental property you cant do anything unless your liscensed. other than insurance issues(fire ect) i would just do it as if you were under code and wait and see if they see it. I too am tired of pulling a permit for every little thing and failing for something stupid and having to pay the reinspection fee and passing even though i didnt change a thing from the fail date, and they wonder why we post stuff like this here. Inspectors in my area nj are just looking to reinspect just to make it look like there busy to justify there salary. but thats a whole nother rant.
 
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BFBOB

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Sep 20, 2011
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5,073
Hi,
I would like to hear from someone with knowledge regarding code enforcement. In my region building is almost non existent, and our code people are literally driving the roads "looking" for work being done. So here is my hypothetical; I install a garage heater and vent it outside of course, code inspector drives by and sees the pipe coming out the wall. Do they have the right to come on the property and inspect? Any information regarding this I would be interested in.
Thanks,
Foamer
Depends on the jurisdiction. Here (St. Louis area) there are many, many little municipalities. In general, where I have heard of such things (inspectors sitting in their cars, windows down, listening for skilsaws, checking it out) they would check to see whether a permit has been issued, and if not, then knock on your door, or send a nastygram (stop-work order). Penalties can be severe. I'm a communications contractor, and several times I've had to clean up unlicensed messes. Ended up costing 2-3 times the cost of the original job, even though in these cases the customer was not fined.

I say again, DEPENDS ON THE JURISDICTION!!
 

cowboyjosh

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Joined
Mar 11, 2010
Messages
1,066
I got fined double the permit fee for installing a backup generator on a customers house without a permit. Again, bored building code folks in Colorado. Where i made my mistake was the city was inspecting a basement remodel 2 houses down and they happened to drive by and noticed m pouring a concrete pad for a generator. They put up a stop work order when the electrician was hooking up the transfer switch. When i went to the city to pull a permit, the guy behind the counter started to lecture and scould me when i took the opportunity to tell him to "shut the fuc@ up".
 
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oldwino

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Nov 16, 2009
Messages
1,917
Location
Sonoma County California (wine country)
Here the CIO is "supposed" to assume any work they see has been permitted and to not investigate further. In practice, if they see something they go back to look up permit...if not permitted you get a letter in the mail "damn, must have been lost in the mail:headscrat" Goes in your file:( but they aren't supposed to do anything until property changes hands, then you must deal with it.
 

Bender78

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Joined
Mar 8, 2008
Messages
1,422
Location
Northwest CT
My decision process regarding building permits is:

1. Am I doing all of the work myself?

2. Does it show from the road?

If the answer is no to #1 or yes to #2, it needs a permit. :bounce:
 

Holedgr

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Joined
Jun 21, 2006
Messages
358
It doesn't matter where you live....there are National codes pertaining to almost EVERY aspect of your house and property...like property maintenance and pulling a permit on any job costing $600 or more...the local codes just add to or specify regionally codes pertinent to the area or ordinances passed because an inspector had a bug up his azz..
 

Holedgr

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Jun 21, 2006
Messages
358
I got fined double the permit fee for installing a backup generator on a customers house without a permit. Again, bored building code folks in Colorado. Where i made my mistake was the city was inspecting a basement remodel 2 houses down and they happened to drive by and noticed m pouring a concrete pad for a generator. They put up a stop work order when the electrician was hooking up the transfer switch. When i went to the city to pull a permit, the guy behind the counter started to lecture and scould me when i took the opportunity to tell him to "shut the fuc@ up".

Yeah...I LOVE it when these little ******* try to scold me...I play by the book 98% of the time...but when I replace three little sidewalk slabs for a little old lady I already did a large job for an pulled a permit for, and they want 60% of the cost of the sidewalk cost for a permit...GO F#%K yourself....


-T
 

KenC

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Dec 20, 2009
Messages
2,576
It doesn't matter where you live....there are National codes pertaining to almost EVERY aspect of your house and property...like property maintenance and pulling a permit on any job costing $600 or more...the local codes just add to or specify regionally codes pertinent to the area or ordinances passed because an inspector had a bug up his azz..

Yes, BUT those national codes are only models and don't apply to ANYONE, unless adopted by your state, county or city, possibly with amendments.
 

mikeyr

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Joined
Sep 16, 2005
Messages
1,971
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
I did not need a permit for the heater in my garage, but I did need a permit for the gas line from the house to the garage. Inspector was coming out every week for a variety of things during the remodel of the house and building of the garage, he did not care about the heater, just checked that the trench was more or less the proper depth and asked the gas guy to sign that he pressure tested the line.

In my area the only thing that would change taxes is a change in living space area, you can do pretty much what you want to the house (with permits of course) and it does nothing to the taxes until they decide you added space. Same with the garage but its taxed at lower rate (non-living space), my 550 sq. ft. addition to my garage costs me $270 a year extra in taxes, it would have been over a $1,000 if it was living space.

So to the original poster, are you sure that pulling a permit for your heater would result in higher taxes ? I would think it would just be a one time permit fee and you would sleep better at night.
 

Falcon67

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Jun 11, 2009
Messages
18,371
Location
Merkel, TX
IMHO if the pipe is all that appears externally, and the inspectors know the property well enough to notice the change, that would be close to stalking. The flip side - such as it is - seems to be that places where permit-stapo run free have insurance adjusters that check for permits. If your heater has an issue that precipitated a claim and the adjuster found no permit, your claim could easily be denied.

There is no hope for that here - city can't even find the permit on our house that was built in 2001. We had a full time inspector here while back - he was decently knowledgeable but he and the then city manager didn't have the requisite political skills needed for negotiating permit related issues in small town Texas. Both are long gone. They really dug a hole for the process - "Code Inspector" came up about a year later as a budget item, the general consensus was "don't go there". The current City Manager handles most of it and it's concentrated on abandoned/neglected properties, health/safety issues, overgrown property and the like. We have plenty of that and even if nothing new fell into that it'd be years before he got bored enough to start any nit picking.
 
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Norcal

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Mar 16, 2008
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13,752
If your going to bootleg something, do it right & make sure it does not look new.
 

HotShoe

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Feb 6, 2011
Messages
43
Location
Ft. Lauderdale, FL
It's all about money. With times the way they are these guys need to drum up cash anyway they can.

Here's my wonderful code experience:

I rented a small 1,000 square foot warehouse. Contract required an occupational license which probably triggered a fire inspection.

Fire inspector shows up Aug. 14th and is impressed by all my extra extinguishers, safety measures etc. He then compliments me on how nice the space looks. He says it's "too nice" and fails my fire inspection until I can show permits for mezzanine. How any of this has anything to do with the fire inspection is beyond me. Of course, his inspection cost $100.

I then find out from the building dept. in order to get everything "approved" I have to permit EVERYTHING and submit two copies of plans signed and sealed. I hire someone to do this for $1,100 and submit the plans end of August. The plans just TODAY made it thru approved. Now I have to schedule all the inspections. All of this for a small mezzanine and some lights. The only thing worse than how slow the process moves is the total lack of common sense. I still don't understand why someone from the city couldn't just come out and give a quick inspection with a "to do" list of grievances.

I am being punished but no one else is. They indiscrimantely enforce the rules yet all my neighbors have junk, fuel filled death traps. The building dept. supervisor told me if they actually inspected the warehouse areas 90% of them would be shut down and out of business. He failed to explain why I have to follow the rules but no one else does.

Thankfully I did everything to code so I shouldn't have any major headaches but some of the stuff they come up with for an industrial space is laughable. The space had an existing bathroom and they were going to have me make it handicap accessible despite the fact that it isn't open to the public. In my town you need to get permit to change an existing toilet! Can you believe that? I had to submit a separate permit and wait on the plumbing dept. to approve my toilet change out. At this point it wouldn't surprise me if I couldn't change a light bulb without a permit. Oh, every step of the way they want money, money, money!

The whole thing is frustrating and has cemented my belief that ANYTHING run by our government, state or federal, is a joke.

Truth be told both my landlord and the president of the association told me prior to signing the lease that any mezzanine less than 1/3 the size of the warehouse did not require a permit. I should have know better. The real kicker is that the building dept. head told me to just "walk away from the lease and stick it to the owner since they are liable anyway". I guess that's just our new national anthem now.

I'm too hard headed. In the end it's my fault for not doing my due diligence and I'm going to see it through. Next time I'l be sure to check the building dept. records before renting anything.
 

Falcon67

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Jun 11, 2009
Messages
18,371
Location
Merkel, TX
>The space had an existing bathroom and they were going to have me make it handicap
>accessible despite the fact that it isn't open to the public.

ADA. When they built the drag strip, there was a bit of a row about requiring an elevator in the tower. The builder had some pull with City Hall because there is a breaker but no elevator.

I know a few projects that would have happened in the big city here, but once the permit process got going, the BS killed the projects. Businesses that would have expanded - didn't and some move far enough away to escape the BS and the tax burden. There is certainly a case for safety and compliance with accepted practices, but cities need to get a grip. Permit fees and permit office horse **** doesn't come near covering what a business could generate in real estate taxes, sales taxes and employee spending power.
 

Holedgr

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Jun 21, 2006
Messages
358
Yes, BUT those national codes are only models and don't apply to ANYONE, unless adopted by your state, county or city, possibly with amendments.



Uh...ok, Ken. Good luck with that point of view.
 

KenC

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Dec 20, 2009
Messages
2,576
There a number of codes. For instance, the NEC has been published in many versions, right now my town is using the 2005 version. Since the later ones have not been adopted, their requirements do not apply.

My point of view is a fact: we are only subject to the rules/laws enacted by our jurisdiction.
 

fordcragar

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Sep 6, 2007
Messages
712
Location
Yakima Wa.
The key is "where do you live", that will determine what you need to do. When I built my first garage, there was a permit for the structure, the wiring and heating were added without a permit.
 

djjsr

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Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
4,796
Location
In the cornfields
I live in a small town where, aside from major construction, almost everything is done without a permit. The really bad thing about that is if you buy a property here, there's a good chance that some electrical, plumbing or construction job is going to give you trouble somewhere down the road, and that trouble could be very serious.

As much of a pain in the *** they sometimes are, I am a firm believer in permits and inspections. It usually means the job was done correctly and not just by "some guy" that thinks he knows what he's doing.
 

marc isoni

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Sep 14, 2012
Messages
14
i used to be in construction and took the inspection courses on my own time and dime, there was an inspector in the class whos previous construction experience was being a male flight attendant... they had an opening, so i applied, but was turned down because of too much education, isnt that the way it goes!
 
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