I have this MCC at a site that scares the **** out of me any time I have to do any switching or troubleshooting. I know I need a platform in front of the doors.....that's in the works. But even if there was a platform does this meet code? With the doors open there's only 21" between the face of the buckets and the door supports. Is there an exception to 110.26 that I'm missing? The gear is from 1994, was 110.26 different back then?
Code or no?
- Thread starter DeeKay
- Start date
alfredeneuman
Well-known member
That's a standard configuration for outdoor (NEMA 3R) stand up sections.
The Code hasn't changed. The workspace required by 110.26 begins at the doors.
Like any 3R panel it has a cover (the doors), a deadfront, and an interior.
(EDIT: If it scares you, I question your ability to safely troubleshoot it.)
The Code hasn't changed. The workspace required by 110.26 begins at the doors.
Like any 3R panel it has a cover (the doors), a deadfront, and an interior.
(EDIT: If it scares you, I question your ability to safely troubleshoot it.)
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If you look at page 25 of the 8000 series Tech Guide GET-6728F (https://library.industrialsolutions... Technical|GET-6728|PDF&filename=GET-6728.pdf) it shows the 21" space in front is the standard for non-walk in NEMA 3R construction.
It appears to me the design intent is that you open the outer doors and reach in, not necessarily stand in the 21" space.
The skid the MCC is mounted to, though, does raise the working height a bit too high. Probably couldn't hurt to put in a platform along the skid.
It appears to me the design intent is that you open the outer doors and reach in, not necessarily stand in the 21" space.
The skid the MCC is mounted to, though, does raise the working height a bit too high. Probably couldn't hurt to put in a platform along the skid.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
I hope youre wearing a suit when you work on that.
klassenl
Well-known member
And a tie.
alfredeneuman
Well-known member
According to OSHA the only people that should do hot work are "qualified persons" that are trained and are familiar with the hazards. Otherwise the gear should be deenergized.
There are specific rules (a hot work permit and written substantiation why the circuit cannot be safely shut down)
If the available fault value is high enough even the highest level of PPE doesn't make the grade.
In a high amp 480V MCC that might very well be the case.
I appreciate that, feel free to question all you want, the last thing I'd want to see is someone unqualified fiddle farting around with something like this. I'm the first one to put my PPE on and follow procedure, I've seen what arc flash/blast can do and I think I'd rather just be dead than in the hospital for months. I think it's the guys that walk up to a panel like billy bad *** saying they're not afraid of anything that should be the ones in question. If you don't have respect for the stuff and it doesn't keep you on your toes just a little bit then you probably shouldn't be working with electricity...and if you are, I don't want to be anywhere nearby.
This guys right under 40 cal, it's old, been in a fairly extreme environment for the last 25 years, so yeah it scares the **** out of me, mostly for switching. Troubleshooting is more so just a pain in the ***, trying to squeeze in there in a cat 4 suit while its 110° outside or the wind is blowing 40mph isn't the most fun thing in the world.
I just wasn't sure if they had changed something in the last 20 years. All of the other 3R stuff we have just has the weather door right in front of the buckets, like maybe 4", just enough to clear handles and devices. There's sections of certain buckets in this gear that you physically can't get to for troubleshooting without putting yourself between the bucket and the door support, so the 21" of dead space GE put in here just seemed weird to me, like maybe in the early 90s there was some workaround where they didn't need to provide 36" or something. Seems that's not the case and it's just a stupid design.
nadogail
Well-known member
I wouldn't touch this.
Chuckster in NJ
Well-known member
I find it amazing on the amount of "qualified" electricians that still don’t wear arc flash protection gear while working on energized equipment.…… Gets even worse when you ask a "qualified" electrician (wearing a tee shirt) working on 480v. gear “Hey where is your arc flash protection?" and they reply "What is that?"
If OSHA was around all hell would break loose if caught doing live work w/o proper PPE, if involved with a 480V arc flash probably better off dead then to survive.
It's crazy how often you see it too, a lot of times from people who know better. I know I've had to stop jobs and ask experienced contractors to put on their gear and they look at me like I'm nuts. Complacency is a real problem.
alfredeneuman
Well-known member
Those experienced contractors should lose their jobs/projects if they can't work safely
EDIT: Of course if you think switching, which can be done with the deadfront on, (and requires no PPE) then
EDIT: Of course if you think switching, which can be done with the deadfront on, (and requires no PPE) then
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No just for energized work, troubleshooting, switching with doors open etc. If they get asked twice, they're gone.
Though we are still required to wear Cat 1 or cat2 (depending on the gear) for switching our MVMCCs even with doors and deadfronts buttoned up.
Might be overkill, but even if that charts say I'm good with Cat0 PPE if I'm switching something I know probably hasn't been maintained, looks kind of ratty, even with deadfronts, I tend to wear the required PPE as if the doors were open.
Though we are still required to wear Cat 1 or cat2 (depending on the gear) for switching our MVMCCs even with doors and deadfronts buttoned up.
Might be overkill, but even if that charts say I'm good with Cat0 PPE if I'm switching something I know probably hasn't been maintained, looks kind of ratty, even with deadfronts, I tend to wear the required PPE as if the doors were open.
alfredeneuman
Well-known member
Just a guess but that may be why they look at you as though you are nuts
That could be
.....but they know the rules, If they want to keep their contracts, they'll follow them. Most accidents/problems happen when switching.... there's a reason you put your dominant hand up your ***, stand to the hinged side and look at the ground. It's also policy to where PPE cat as if the doors are open if maintenance history or equipment condition is unknown.
grounded-b
Well-known member
That would be awkward to do all three..... If your right-hand dominant and the hinge side is on the left, what are you supposed to do? Stand with your back to the gear, reach behind your back and operate the switch with your left hand? Haha. By the way, I am a licensed electrician with 35 years, and I do use PPE and follow NFPA 70e.That could be
Most accidents/problems happen when switching.... there's a reason you put your dominant hand up your ***, stand to the hinged side and look at the ground. It's also policy to where PPE cat as if the doors are open if maintenance history or equipment condition is unknown.
I should have said, if possible. There's one handle I can't even budge with my left hand.I've been told all kinds of stuff over the years, don't stand to the hinged side because the door will hit you, now it's stand to the hinged side because it will block the arc blast. Then it was turn your head away, now it's tuck your chin and face the door haha hard to keep track sometimes.