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Cold Cut Saw Rant - Evolution

Fender1325

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I recently purchased and owned for a month an Evolution metal cutting chop saw. 14" blade.

I really needed this saw to complete a coffee table I was fabbing up out of 1.5" angle iron. What irked me most, among other problems, was that the fence could only be adjusted for a 45 degree cut in one direction. This means if you are making a frame with angle iron, you have to stand the flat side upward in the vice to get the angle cut you need. This not only makes the cut hard to make accurate, its dangerous because the vice cant hold it tight. I made a block out of maple to hold it in more safely.

Ultimately the vice couldnt hold it tightly enough to make an accurate cut. Things like that, some minor play in the blade which couldnt be tightened away, the little handle on the vice swivel kept coming undone and needing to be re-screwed all caused me to return it.

So Dewalt, Makita, and others have cold cut saws costing twice as much, but in reality their designs are almost identical! No cold cut saw allows you to swivel the fence 45 both directions.

Whats most annoying here is that theres excellent miter saws for wood which will swivel and click into place either direction and more, why the hell cant the manufacturers make this for the cold cut saws!? All they are is a slower turning saw with a blade designed for steel cutting. What am I missing!?!

I am now considering the horizontal band saw from *gasp* dare I say it, Harbor Freight. I just inspected it in person. The fence only swivels one way also for 45 degree cuts but atleast it requires a socket driver to tighten the fence once you dial it in. The base seems to be heavy cast iron, and with a slow band saw I imagine itd be much less dangerous having to cut angle iron with the flatside facing upward.

*side note* i saw an abrasive saw at home depot by rigid that had a fence that went either way, but after fidgeting with it for 5 minutes there in person and not being able to get it to move a full 45 either way without getting all hung up I said F it and walked away.
 
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Ign

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Yep, seems to me the first company to put a 14" dry cut on a platform like a miter saw where the blade swivels instead of the work, nice fence on both sides, will be a billionaire.

In the meantime a Haberle will do what you want at 10x the cost. Or a band saw is an excellent choice always. But a 7x12 will be way more durable than the HF 4x6
 

Boost Creep

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Yep, seems to me the first company to put a 14" dry cut on a platform like a miter saw where the blade swivels instead of the work, nice fence on both sides, will be a billionaire.

i would love to have a metal saw like that. they could do something like that with either the 14" blade or even a portaband sized saw.
 

DonPowers

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As with wood cutting chop saws, it will take a while for them to evolve. Enough threads like this may prompt the manufacturers to add more features on their saws.

I picked up a Milwaukee 14" from Northern Tool when they were on sale with free shipping. No issues with the saw so far, though I haven't tried to miter angle iron yet.

Also have a Morse Metal Devil 7" circular saw for cutting plate and sheet metal. Have used it for cutting metal roofing panels, industrial grade grating, and 3/8 plate.

Both saws produce nice clean cuts at a decent rate.
 

dnschmidt

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There has to be a reason Milwaukee and Porter-Cable stopped making these saws. I've got a Porter-Cable and love it but these saws can be EXTREMELY dangerous. My friend had his Milwaukee FLIP-OVER while making a cut. Make sure the cut off falls off, I put a vice grip on it to ensure that on smaller cut-offs, otherwise they can go up and get into the blade and really bad things can happen.
 

JimbosGarage

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I have a Makita 14'', I love it works great as com paired to what I had before just a regular chop saw. I use a square tube jig in different sizes for the angle iron cuts.
 

Ign

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There has to be a reason Milwaukee and Porter-Cable stopped making these saws. I've got a Porter-Cable and love it but these saws can be EXTREMELY dangerous. My friend had his Milwaukee FLIP-OVER while making a cut. Make sure the cut off falls off, I put a vice grip on it to ensure that on smaller cut-offs, otherwise they can go up and get into the blade and really bad things can happen.

I agree, the conspiracy theorist in me can't get past thinking Milwaukee knew something they're not saying. I could never get my Milwaukee to cut square or keep blades alive for more than a few cuts, but I could never find any play, wobble, or anything out of square. But I seem to be the only one who experienced such problems, yet shortly thereafter Milwaukee discontinued the model altogether - no redesign, just gone.

I knew the Rage 3 would come up here, but it's not a substitute. Small blade, not really meant to cut thicker stuff, lightweight, poor clamping system. The market needs a Rage 3 on steroids w 14" blade, heavy and rigid, with clamps that capture the work AGAINST the fence, not down into the base. And again, quality clamps on BOTH sides like a true cold saw.
 

bobcatdan

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Evolution makes a dry cut saw in a miter saw configuration. My buddy has one and really likes it. I don't think it is a 14" , but a 10" or a 12". I'm leaning on 12". He bought it after being impressed by the chop saw style evolution we bought for the Bobcat shop. Personally I has no complaints with saw, but I never cut any angles.
 

Strouty

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I agree, the conspiracy theorist in me can't get past thinking Milwaukee knew something they're not saying. I could never get my Milwaukee to cut square or keep blades alive for more than a few cuts, but I could never find any play, wobble, or anything out of square. But I seem to be the only one who experienced such problems, yet shortly thereafter Milwaukee discontinued the model altogether - no redesign, just gone.

I have never used the Milwaukee version, I have a really old hitachi and that thing cuts so square you would swear it was machined. The only time I have ever had any issues was when I tried cutting multiple pieces of threaded rod at the same time, it was stupid on my part and luckily all it cost me was a new blade. I would love to be able to use my Bosch compound miter saw to cut steel with, I know you can cut aluminum with it and people sell high speed blades for cutting steel, but I just don't dare abuse it like that. It would be cool to find a slower RPM motor and try it out, but again I don't want to be the guinea pig.
 

bcradio

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I have a Makita 14'', I love it works great as com paired to what I had before just a regular chop saw. I use a square tube jig in different sizes for the angle iron cuts.

Is that a vintage model? I have and am only aware of the 12" version Makita dry cut saw.
 

Spudland_Dave

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As with wood cutting chop saws, it will take a while for them to evolve. Enough threads like this may prompt the manufacturers to add more features on their saws.

I'm not so sure it will follow....

Metal Cutting "Chop Saws" are for metal fab...not Cabinetry work :lol_hitti and they've been out since before I was born...little to no change from the old B&D Pro my dad had when I was a little kid to my or his newer Dewalt...
Go look at a Wood Miter saw from the 80s as compared to one from today...today they have 500X more "Needed" features...I remember the first one I ever seen in person was a 7-1/4" Makita miter saw...now if you don't have a 10" Double Bevel, Sliding saw...

Working with steel is not like working with wood. Actually this is probably the first & only time I've ever seen anyone ever complain about a chop saw design.

FWIW...the Rage Evo is not a "Cold Cut Machine"... Its just a Non-Abrasive Chop Saw...
 

Strouty

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I think technically they are considered dry cut saws. Cold is with the cooling fluid and those are expensive.
 

Spudland_Dave

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I think technically they are considered dry cut saws. Cold is with the cooling fluid and those are expensive.

Dry Cut! That was the word I was looking for..

Correct...Cold Cut saws are big money, come on nice stands, coolant, very low speed, gear reduction saws...

IMHO unless your cutting aluminum or tiny stuff like Strut and stuff...stick with an abrasive machine.

Some day I'll get myself a genuine cold cut...

coldsaw.jpg
 

DonPowers

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I'm not so sure it will follow....

Metal Cutting "Chop Saws" are for metal fab...not Cabinetry work :lol_hitti and they've been out since before I was born...little to no change from the old B&D Pro my dad had when I was a little kid to my or his newer Dewalt...
Go look at a Wood Miter saw from the 80s as compared to one from today...today they have 500X more "Needed" features...I remember the first one I ever seen in person was a 7-1/4" Makita miter saw...now if you don't have a 10" Double Bevel, Sliding saw...

Working with steel is not like working with wood. Actually this is probably the first & only time I've ever seen anyone ever complain about a chop saw design.

FWIW...the Rage Evo is not a "Cold Cut Machine"... Its just a Non-Abrasive Chop Saw...

Agree Dave that metal work is not like woodworking as you can fill a pretty good gap with weld. Also, woodworking machines don't usually require a clamp. I can agree with the OP regarding the inability of the vice holding odd ball shapes but, as with woodworking, you sometimes just have to build a jig.

Back in the 80s I was looking for a compound miter saw, about the only thing out there, other than a RAS, was the Delta Sawbuck with a 8.5" blade. Still use mine today, other than blades, and an occasional adjustment, I've only replaced the cord because the outer insulation was falling apart. One of these days I will have to break down and buy a sliding compound miter, or get to work refurbishing my vintage 16" DeWalt RAS.
 

scw1991

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I own the Milwaukee 6180-20 and the first thing I noticed was the fence assembly would rotate when you tighten down the vice clamp. This is due to the poor design of the 3-position quick release fence mechanism. The bolt on the underside has a tapered shoulder and the spring under the knurled nut isn't strong enough to keep this tapered shoulder bolt firmly in place, thus the fence rotates. I removed the spring, installed a 3/4" thick bushing and re-installed the knurled nut. Now I can securely tighten the knurled nut to ensure the bolt seats properly without moving. Problem solved.

http://www.milwaukeetool.com/power-tools/corded/6180-20
 

padronanniversary

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bandsaw, the dry saw certainly has its limitations. Great for certain applications.


then you will need a plasma as well, the list keeps growing for me.
 

turbodave

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Evolution makes a dry cut saw in a miter saw configuration. My buddy has one and really likes it. I don't think it is a 14" , but a 10" or a 12". I'm leaning on 12". He bought it after being impressed by the chop saw style evolution we bought for the Bobcat shop. Personally I has no complaints with saw, but I never cut any angles.

That's the Rage III, it's a 10". I got one a few years ago when Menards had it on clearance. I don't use it a lot, but has suited my needs well. Heaviest steel I've cut with it was 1/4" thick 2"x2" tubing at a 45deg angle, I went slow and had no issues. I've cut a lot of thinner angle iron and tubing, aluminum, wood, and even plastic trim with no issues. The clamps aren't the best, but for an occasional user like me it gets the job done. Much nicer cuts than I can do with my torch or sawzall.
 
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Fender1325

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Yeah, the cuts the evolution saw made were fine but it was the deck and vice system that killed it for me.

I'm likely going to pull the trigger on the HF horiztonal band saw. Im not in this for a race, Im in it for accuracy.

If all I was using was square tube then the evolution wouldve been hunky dory. But the minute you bring angle iron to the party and need to make an accurate frame? Forget it. Too frustrating.
 
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Fender1325

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By the way I emailed evolution all the information as to the troubles I had and why I ultimately returned the thing, and what improvements they need. Haven't heard back and I'm not holding my breath.
 

RockStan

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Well I know it’s an old thread but I was going to post some pictures of my evolution saw that I have highly modified to fit on a delta 10” miter saw base and incorporated into my old chop saw table but I’m computer illiterate and can’t figure this out but I can modify a saw to work flawlessly go figure. Also first time posting here. Just joined to show off my saw and can’t do it lmao
 

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RockStan

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Yes I have full range of motion left to right and upnto 50* almost. I am building a vise set-up for it out of the thing sticking out of the front. Left and right screw clamps and left and right strap vise to deck
 

anndel

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Well I know it’s an old thread but I was going to post some pictures of my evolution saw that I have highly modified to fit on a delta 10” miter saw base and incorporated into my old chop saw table but I’m computer illiterate and can’t figure this out but I can modify a saw to work flawlessly go figure. Also first time posting here. Just joined to show off my saw and can’t do it lmao

That's a very cool setup you did! :bowdown:
 

lis2323

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Nice work so far! I'll be watching.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

RockStan

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Thanks. I’ve been modifying and building my own tools for a long time. My dad always said why buy what you can build and before I was 20 he made sure that I could build almost anything. You’d be amazed at how many times people have said that I couldn’t build something or that I couldn’t use a drill press as a poor man’s lathe
 

RockStan

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Couldn’t help it! I found this gem for a measly $150 off Facebook market place!


Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal9d1177f95d3ebd60b160efb81c05e7dc.jpg
 

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lis2323

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Couldn’t help it! I found this gem for a measly $150 off Facebook market place!


Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal9d1177f95d3ebd60b160efb81c05e7dc.jpg



No way!
**** **** ****
 

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theoldwizard1

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I am now considering the horizontal band saw from *gasp* dare I say it, Harbor Freight.
If you want accuracy and repeatability, forget HF unless you are willing to spend a lot of time modifying/tweaking it.

A lot depends on how thick the steel is you are going to be cutting. A GOOD 12"-14" vertical wood band saw would work IF you can figure out how to slow the blade speed down (speed reducer, DC motor, etc). Even then, the work table will be small and you will likely have to build jigs to hold things.
 

driftpin

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Is this (CL ad, below & attachment) the Milwaukee that isn't made anymore? The ad is not mine, nor anyone I know, just putting it here for purposes of comparison.This looks like the fence/vise moves for miters.

I have a HFT which has worked OK for my limited use. I also have a Porter-Cable portable bandsaw model 728 type 1, which has worked well, though I don't need it much. I found HFT sells the bimetal blades for it. I think it was on Amazon prime I found some bimetal blade lots, and bought perhaps 20 for <$4 apiece.

Isn't a stationary horizontal bandsaw capable of doing what the OP wants to-do?

The CL ad I found:
Saw dry cut machine 14" - $325 (Port St Lucie Florida)

https://treasure.craigslist.org/tls/d/saw-dry-cut-machine-14/6740502403.html

Milwaukee, Dry-Cut machine / volt rating 120 vac/vdc-15amp/speed 1500RPM/Blade Diameter 14"
Cutting Capacity-5-3/8"pipe -5"
Square Stock-Mitering Fence.

With new spare blade.
Call or text /Frank at 772-618-3337
 

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Rabid Badger

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I wonder if it would be possible to swap the motor internals from a dry cut saw into a regular miter saw?
 

GirlnAgarage

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So Dewalt, Makita, and others have cold cut saws costing twice as much, but in reality their designs are almost identical! No cold cut saw allows you to swivel the fence 45 both directions.

Actually the Rage 3 does. I've cut both metal (up to 1/4" angle) and wood projects with it. It's my go to. Yes the clamping on it ***** so that takes a minute to secure the work piece with another clamp. Metal especially.

After having this saws capability, I'd still like to have band saw for smaller stuff.
 

m1kemex

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I agree, the conspiracy theorist in me can't get past thinking Milwaukee knew something they're not saying. I could never get my Milwaukee to cut square or keep blades alive for more than a few cuts, but I could never find any play, wobble, or anything out of square. But I seem to be the only one who experienced such problems, yet shortly thereafter Milwaukee discontinued the model altogether - no redesign, just gone.

I knew the Rage 3 would come up here, but it's not a substitute. Small blade, not really meant to cut thicker stuff, lightweight, poor clamping system. The market needs a Rage 3 on steroids w 14" blade, heavy and rigid, with clamps that capture the work AGAINST the fence, not down into the base. And again, quality clamps on BOTH sides like a true cold saw.

There has to be a reason Milwaukee and Porter-Cable stopped making these saws. I've got a Porter-Cable and love it but these saws can be EXTREMELY dangerous. My friend had his Milwaukee FLIP-OVER while making a cut. Make sure the cut off falls off, I put a vice grip on it to ensure that on smaller cut-offs, otherwise they can go up and get into the blade and really bad things can happen.

Sorry for posting on this old thread but I think the topic is as relevant as always. This kind of saws are indeed extremely dangerous. I have a relatively small evolution 7-1/4" sliding miter saw, the single bevel version, and I used it recently to cut some 1-1/4" 3/16" thick angle iron. I admit I had never attempted to do so before, and I just did it on the ground, with a piece of wood on each side as support, and the wimpy clamp holding one side. I mean, like anyone would do in an improvised situation. Right from start I had an issue with the blade grabbing as the material moved sightly when it lost support from the cut. I also hit the material too fast / without speeding up the blade enough and it jerked quite alarmingly. Good god I had the sliding feature unlocked, otherwise the the entire machine could have flipped.

All in all, I think the main danger is not any of this. I mean, indeed, there is quite a big danger of having the blade cut you, throw the material away and such. As with any power tool. But I think that the REAL danger here is the amount of swarf it throws off. It's both super sharp and super hot and it literally goes everywhere. I purchased the best pair of safety goggles I could find before even starting -I do truly follow the rule of safety first-, which was a foam lined polycarbonate model from Milkwaukee (should have worn a full face shield) and even so, a few pieces made it to the inside of the goggles. I can only imagine some rookie attempting to use the machine without any sort of precaution and losing an eye or both as a result.

My advice: don't underestimate metal working machines. Clamp the machine well. Clamp the work well. And use all safety precautions you can. Something that cuts steel easily should be feared and handled with respect.

P. S. BTW, I'm convinced that if you are to cut metal, the slidding feature is a must. It allows you to position the blade properly to attempt cutting the material from the thinnest section, which is optimal.

P. S. #2 I've not tried my little theory, but I suspect the best way to cut an angle with a sliding mitter saw is to put the angle with one of the sides lying flat and the other facing you. That way you cut the first part (vertical) downwards and the last part forward (horizontal). I did cut them with the extremes facing down and hitting the middle part first and I think I was overstressing the machine.

P. S. #3 The blade I used was a 48T Irwin, made in China. Despite the mentioned issues, there are no broken teeth or anything. I highly recommend them.
 
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