coleman vs. lennox ?

[FrankieD]

I am in the position of getting bids for the replacement of the heat/ac unit for our building.The job requires a crane to lift the units up to the rooftop,two stories up.There will be two units installed,each 5 ton.
The estimates for the complete install are $16,000 for the Coleman M#B90-722.The Lennox price is $23,760 model#KGA060S4DH.
Are these comperable units?Which system would be better in the long run ie. cost to run,life expectancy,cost for repairs?
I guess it should be asked if the units are close in cost to each other and the one company is just more expensive?

 

[rickairmedic]

Frankie where I am Coleman only gets used in Mobil homes and is a cheaper unit . You kind of have a catch 22 situation here . The Coleman should be a cheaper unit to install and repair but I would say its life expectancy will be shorter . The Lennox will be more to install and if like here 2-3 Times as expensive to repair . Do you have any other suppliers up there you could look at ?


Rick

 

[FrankieD]

Thank you Rick for that reply.The building is something of a problem for most techs.The only acess to the units is up a ladder to the roof.Seems most guys won't climb that high.Had one guy say he doesn't do ladders.Another says his union doesn't allow ladder use over ten feet.
Like you said I'm in a tough spot and running out of time.

 

[rickairmedic]

That surprises me . I love rooftop units on commercial buildings . They are some of the easiest to replace and usually the profit margin is higher on commercial jobs which means more money for less work . I bet if you find someone working on commision they will climb the heck out of that ladder .

Rick

 

[Mike007]

You do not want Coleman (York). Trust me. I was a York and Coleman dealer for a very long time. After 12 years in business, I find myself driven to the point I want to pack it in. I spend all my time when it gets hot or cold fixing systems I installed between 2006-2009. It's never ending. I can't keep ahead of my warranty problems. It's a nightmare. Johnson Controls bought York and fired the quality control people and made a lot of other changes. The quality is absolutely horrific.

 

[kyron]

You do not want Coleman (York). Trust me. I was a York and Coleman dealer for a very long time. After 12 years in business, I find myself driven to the point I want to pack it in. I spend all my time when it gets hot or cold fixing systems I installed between 2006-2009. It's never ending. I can't keep ahead of my warranty problems. It's a nightmare. Johnson Controls bought York and fired the quality control people and made a lot of other changes. The quality is absolutely horrific.

X2 York has really turned to poop

but, the quality control of the Lennox isn't much better

It really boils down to how well the start-up is done on each unit as to how long it will last.

During the start up the tech "should" be checking that all the wires are ran good (not rubbing on anything) and that the piping is ran good as well

 

[brewchief]

Coleman makes some really nice lanterns and sleeping bags, HVAC equipment not so much. A lot of the Lennox equipment is designed for easy service, I installed a 25 ton and 10 ton L-series on a bar about 6 years ago and aside from normal maintenance and one t-stat issue I don't think we have had a single service call.

 

[Norcal]

A nic for Lennox is "Lemonix" , IMO good for scrap not much else.

 

[SketchyBikes]

I sell Johnson Controls RTU's which are the same as York, and Coleman, and Luxaire. They all come out of the same factory just different levels of quality/price. I have to agree they had their share of problems from what I have heard (I have only been with the company 3 years), and I have had some minor issues, however most problems can be related to incorrect airflow, or application. I was at our factory about 2 months ago and quality IS an important issue! They are working very hard to make improvements. The most recent units I have sold are very nice.

Just make sure you have a factory authorized rep start the unit up, and make sure the select it to overcome the static resistance of your existing duct and adapter curb if one is required. The system needs to be air balanced after installation to make sure the supply and return air is correct on the system.

That's my 2 cents...

 

[Mike007]

It really boils down to how well the start-up is done on each unit as to how long it will last.

During the start up the tech "should" be checking that all the wires are ran good (not rubbing on anything) and that the piping is ran good as well

The start up does not cause me to have 40 evap coils fail under warranty. And it doesn't have any affect on York knowing they are defective and deciding to continue selling them while they open a new factory to fix the coil problem. And start up also has nothing to do with York using an oil to form secondary heat exchangers that degrades the exchanger gaskets. The result being every 90%+ furnace I installed in that period needs a new condensate collector and gasket. Somewhere around 100 +/-. I went from a handful of warranty issues over 8-9 years to 100's in 2-3 years. I had a Predator rooftop fail in a year. I installed it on a lab. Caused them to shut down for 1-1/2 days until I could get there to fix it. Seems the monkeys who built it left a hot gas line in contact with a suction line and it chaffed through. Would have taken 30 seconds to fix it at the factory. I was having problems with equipment right out of the box too. I had a new air handler with the blower wheel so bent left to right it couldn't spin. There was no damage to the box. My York rep acknowledged the unit was probably shipped out like that and never factory tested. In regard to your second point, I don't believe quality control is the installing techs responsibility. I have enough of my own work to do on an install. I could go on and on about York problems, but I'll leave it at that.

 

[programmergeek]

I had a carrier infiniti awesome system quiet blew all the time very low super efficient didn't even know it was on. My dealer talked me into 2, 5 ton 19 seer 2 stage colmans to replace two of my units. Not cheap. Well they got put in the beginning of the summer and have not worked since. The one blows fuses and when it is working we hear it run but no cooling happens. Sat it was 80deg out. turned it on 72 int he am by 6:00pm the house was 78 deg. Ran all day. Upstairs units int he bedroom on the master bedroom side sounds like a jet taking off and continually ramps up and down never adjusts the static pressure right we can't even sleep with it on 1/2 the time. Anyhow my HVAC tech after 20 calls had not got this right. Lat thing yesterday my wife said house was worm turned on the unit and it was blowing hot air! Hot air when AC should be on. I ripped the thermostat off the wall, and the blower was still running rebooted the whole colman system and the blower is stuck on. Had to shut off the power to the unit it is a piece of ****.

Also tried to get in touch with the company I am a Home Automation Installer and use Savant neither me or Savant can get in touch with them to integrate the unit. The company doesn't have a phone number and doesn't respond to anyone I can see maybe I had a bad installer but as a business that integrated HVAC systems into smart homes every day they won't even talk to me. Once sold there is zero support.

 

[Jim greengo]

Coleman/evcon has made condensing units for other companies for years,they just get rebadged is all.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Thank you Rick for that reply.The building is something of a problem for most techs.The only acess to the units is up a ladder to the roof.Seems most guys won't climb that high.Had one guy say he doesn't do ladders.Another says his union doesn't allow ladder use over ten feet.
Like you said I'm in a tough spot and running out of time.

Tech #1 is in the wrong line of work. if you don't want to be on ladders, don;t go into HVAC. Tech #2 is full of ****. I was Local 475 for many years. The only "Union Rule" on ladders was two men for anything over 28', and I'm not even sure it was a "rule", maybe just a suggestion.

Tommy