Collaborate on a LED fixtures?

[gregcr]

Hi All,

Long time lurker and hopeful (soon to be) new garage owner here.

Would anyone be interested in collaborating on some LED lighting fixture designs? My day job includes owning a manufacturing facility in the Northeast USA where a fair amount of what we build includes design and manufacturing of LED lighting.

During the planning phases of my garage I've been reviewing the LED offerings on the market as well as many of the discussions on this forum. The lighting market is exploding right now and the LED cost is improving considerably, along with the quality. In an effort over complicate most every aspect of my build (I'm and engineer) I was thinking it may be fun to work with the forum to develop some lighting ideas.

Anything from Hi-Bay to smaller fixtures. Is there a need or specific characteristics that you would like to see in a fixture?

What would you like to see in a fixture?
Where are some ideas:

- Do you want universal input? 90-260 VAC? or is 90-120 VAC ok?
- LED color options, usually 35K, 40K, 50K with 80 CRI or better
- Dimming, Motion, WIFI, Bluetooth?
- Aesthetics: Cool adjustable, steampunk, old barn, basic or modern.
- Materials: Aluminum, Plastic, Steel.
- Hardwire or screw-in retrofit.

Let me know if anyone is interested in getting some ideas together.

It may be a learning experience for all.

Thanks!
gc

 

[motofool33]

residential 120vac would be fine, but giving 240volt an option would catch more customers that have the space to build large garages and such.

if it wouldn't have been cost preventative to do wireless switching i would have choose it, but the current switches are limited to 5amp 8amp for the RF switches. my 6 james 225watt pull over 10amp. so i choose just one switch to dim and turn them off or off.

setup for Occupancy sensors would be ideal, i ordered them for my lights.

personally i would have chose Steam Punk Style but nothing in my price range of near 200$ a fixture was available. Modern would probably get the widest customer base.

i would think most of the fixture need to be metal for Heat Sinks,

 

[Stuart in MN]

240vac light fixtures are not allowed per the NEC in residential applications, so 120vac only. They would need UL approval (or equivalent.)

 

[ishiboo]

Hi All,

Long time lurker and hopeful (soon to be) new garage owner here.

Would anyone be interested in collaborating on some LED lighting fixture designs? My day job includes owning a manufacturing facility in the Northeast USA where a fair amount of what we build includes design and manufacturing of LED lighting.

During the planning phases of my garage I've been reviewing the LED offerings on the market as well as many of the discussions on this forum. The lighting market is exploding right now and the LED cost is improving considerably, along with the quality. In an effort over complicate most every aspect of my build (I'm and engineer) I was thinking it may be fun to work with the forum to develop some lighting ideas.

Anything from Hi-Bay to smaller fixtures. Is there a need or specific characteristics that you would like to see in a fixture?

What would you like to see in a fixture?
Where are some ideas:

- Do you want universal input? 90-260 VAC? or is 90-120 VAC ok?
- LED color options, usually 35K, 40K, 50K with 80 CRI or better
- Dimming, Motion, WIFI, Bluetooth?
- Aesthetics: Cool adjustable, steampunk, old barn, basic or modern.
- Materials: Aluminum, Plastic, Steel.
- Hardwire or screw-in retrofit.

Let me know if anyone is interested in getting some ideas together.

It may be a learning experience for all.

Thanks!
gc

I think the market is flooded with ****, and introducing shop lights with **** like WIFI and bluetooth would be awful.

I'd like to see:

1. 120VAC input alone is fine, due to not only code as Stuart said but also the fact that LED fixtures really don't consume enough energy to warrant 240v in any size home shop.

2. I think allowing 2-3 color choices would be a good option, and requires only changing the LEDs themselves so why not? If stuck with one, 4k for me.

3. Dimmable would be nice. Everything else, do it remotely with Insteon, Z-Wave, etc. if you need it. Including it would be a waste.

 

[Jack D]

I think this thread could be interesting. I am currently constructing my garage and I just finished installing two LED HiBays. Getting the design correct (or my view of correct) was a very challenging task. I wanted to do it right and it literally took months of planning.

I tried to use a ALA design consultant and that was a complete waste of time. I finally installed a downloadable lighting planning tool 'DialLux' on a borrowed windows laptop and was able to make progress and finally was able to actually compare luminaries for my application. Bottom line is I am happy with the result so maybe I can help someone else through the process.

Since you asked I will state my opinion on some of the questions..

-Do you want universal input? 90-260 VAC? or is 90-120 VAC ok?

I would not do anything other than universal voltage. You will limit your market.

- LED color options, usually 35K, 40K, 50K with 80 CRI or better

Before you decide on a color range you need to either offer the gamut or design for a color range that fits a specific application.

- Dimming, Motion, WIFI, Bluetooth?

This LED solution is expensive but luminaries are distinctly different from drivers. I my case I wanted remote access so I designed my light plan to be compatible with my remote solution. IMHO if you don't have a forward looking plan you will eventually get an unwieldy solution.

- Aesthetics: Cool adjustable, steampunk, old barn, basic or modern.

This only enters in the equation if you are designing the area.

- Materials: Aluminum, Plastic, Steel.

You need to add glass

- Hardwire or screw-in retrofit.

IMHO from my experience hardwire in luminaries are easier. If you do screw in or retrofit you are working with a fixture designed for an incandescent or Fluorescent and there is no way to predict how the fixture will preform.

My question for you is what is the end result to this project? Are you going to make fixtures or create a design consulting service?

 

[aka Larry]

All I'd want is an 120V hardwired 8' fixture with 5K temperature with a lumens output equal to or greater than normal fluorescent offerings, for the same of course per fixture.

I like to dream big.

 

[Radix2]

I am still in the analysis paralysis mode for my 40x50 garage. What I see as being missing for the garage are lights with hibay level outputs, but with decent area so that the glare is minimized and at least some level of uplighting. Current offerings in the 12000-18000 lumen range are in the sub2x2 size and have no uplighting. - The proposed fixture would be in the 2x4 size and have 5-10% uplighting.

The target would be for moderate height buildings - 12-18' of a size where you need 12000+ lumens per fixture to get the fixture count down to a reasonable number.

I think this would make for a very nice unit suited for lower than hibay heights and give good fill off of the common metal liner ceilings.

As a practical matter for cost, just use the std drivers that give 0-10V dimming and universal voltage. Use a prismatic cover for glare and seal it against insects.

I would hope you could assemble such a light from near standard components...

 

[jives]

I'm currently waiting it out on LED for my 32x 42 garage with a vaulted ceiling 20' to the peak. Walls are 14'. Looking low bay lights. Lighting is right now old 175W MH low bays with an extension cord. The vaulted ceiling and follow-the-pitch garage door get in the way of using the simple lighting layout software.

Need to be inexpensive. How about $.01 per lumen? I realize that is the range of the Chinese stuff flooding the market. Nevertheless, a 10,000 lumen fixture should cost no more than $100. These are garages, not warehouses or houses. I can get a good used 250W MH fixture for $35 for 20K+ lumens.

Option of plug in or hard wire.

Linkable.With standard linking plugs and wires. Long available lengths. Even for round fixtures. Consider the fellow with one light and needs more. He can rewire his garage for more junction boxes or outlets, or simply link more lights together. This is a no brainer for the DYIer.

Changeable beam spread for customizable lighting. With the same lights you could have a wide spread for lights in the middle, more concentrated on the perimeter workbench. My flashlight can do it easily. Why not LED fixtures? I think it would be easier for round fixtures, not linear strips, but if you could get it done for the strips, all the better.

 

[gregcr]

Great feedback Stuart in MN,

We usually don't get involved in the UL testing side of things for lighting (although I have been through the process many times with other products).

I've looked into what certifications would be appropriate. With any designs the power supply/LED driver would be UL certified. I'm just not sure if the top level fixture needs to be certified as well.

thanks!
gc

 

[Stuart in MN]

We usually don't get involved in the UL testing side of things for lighting (although I have been through the process many times with other products).

I know that getting UL certification is a pain in the ****. However, I think that most areas in the US that require electrical inspections are also going to want the fixtures to have some sort of certification from a nationally recognized laboratory. NRTL or maybe CSA are other options that are probably easier and less expensive than UL.

 

[cybrdyke]

I'm just not sure if the top level fixture needs to be certified as well.

Sure it does. Just having a UL listed ballast or driver doesn't mean the fixture is safe. It needs to be built to UL1598C. That'll cost you at least $10,000. CSAus might be a little cheaper.
It would be foolish for you to sell non-UL fixtures, and it would be foolish for anyone to buy them.
Sorry to be Debbie Downer.
CD

 

[Jaguar Fan]

Hi All,

Long time lurker and hopeful (soon to be) new garage owner here.

Welcome!

- Do you want universal input? 90-260 VAC? or is 90-120 VAC ok? 90-120VAC
- LED color options, usually 35K, 40K, 50K with 80 CRI or better I prefer so-called "warm light"
- Dimming, Motion, WIFI, Bluetooth? No need for dimming. Motion would be nice. What about a Zigbee-ish mesh network that would work with a home automation system such as Control4? Absent that, Wi-Fi.
- Aesthetics: Cool adjustable, steampunk, old barn, basic or modern.Definitely modern. Las Vegas over-the-top modern.
- Materials: Aluminum, Plastic, Steel.
- Hardwire or screw-in retrofit. hardware for a sconce, and for a recessed can.

Let me know if anyone is interested in getting some ideas together.

It may be a learning experience for all.

Thanks!
gc

 

[gregcr]

Thanks All!
10 reply's on the first day, with lots of great feedback!

Keep the feedback coming. We'll work up some ideas and post for more opinions. The cost / lumens per watt are very much doable.

thanks again!
gc

 

[matt_i]

I'd say without much knowledge, the future could/would be a flat piece of white powder coated steel with rows of strip LEDs adhered to it.

It could have a lens or not. the whole thing could be 1/2" thick, with some exception for the driver and the 120vac connections.

The current chassis profiles and sizes and anything using "tubes" are carryover from fluorescents in my opinion.