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Columbian Clone? Ace Vise

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Farmall450

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Picked this old stock vise up from Ace. It's China, but does anyone know who made it? Very similar to a US Columbian my dad has. Thanks.
 

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Outlawmws

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Who made it? :wtf: If you say it was made in China, it was made by Chinese slaves. That's who made it.

Calling it a "Wilton" or a "Columbian" is just marketing BS. A name isn't just a name, its a reputation, and many great old names were bought for that reason alone.

Calling that chicom "stuff" by an old well regarded name does not make it so; its a pretender that sullies the name.
 
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exmaxima1

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Outlawmws said:
Who made it? :wtf: If you say it was made in China, it was made by Chinese slaves. That's who made it.
Click to expand...

I had to laugh when I read that. I've been to China many times visiting the factories I import from, and never knew any of them were "slaves". My recent inlaws live in China, and while they do own several homes I don't think they own any slaves. I'll ask them the next time I skype with them...
 
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Farmall450

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Outlawmws said:
Who made it? :wtf: If you say it was made in China, it was made by Chinese slaves. That's who made it.

Calling it a "Wilton" or a "Columpian" is just marketing BS. A name isn't just a name, its a reputation, and many great old names were bought for that reason alone.

Calling that chicom "stuff" by an old well regarded name does not make it so; its a pretender that sullies the name.
Click to expand...



This is fairly true, but Wilton China or Metabo China is much better than HF china...they have more rigorous standards. Just like the Cman clone...
 
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Outlawmws

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exmaxima1 said:
I had to laugh when I read that. I've been to China many times visiting the factories I import from, and never knew any of them were "slaves". My recent inlaws live in China, and while they do own several homes I don't think they own any slaves. I'll ask them the next time I skype with them...
Click to expand...

Do some studying on the modern state of human *******, then ask some of these kinds of questions:

Who determines the wages?
Do the workers have the right to quit?
Do the workers have the right to get a passport and travel freely?
If the workers are "imported" (many are) do they get to keep their passport, or is it "Kept for safe keeping" by the company/Government? Do the workers have the right to leave/quit at will?

I won't even get into common living conditions.

Those are just a few of the questions China fails at. Yes, it's all given a facade of "legality" with BS contracts and conditions imposed on people that are told what they are affixing their "X" to, but either they are illiterate or don't read the language it is written in...

Are they labeled as slaves as was done in the past? No, the lawyers and Chinese (and many other governments) dance carefully around that. Since you "do business" there, go try to start poking into how the workers are treated and paid on some of these topics in these factories. You will have that door slammed in your face, or be given a whitewash story.

The fantasy land you as an American are allowed to see is not the real China. Leaving the 4 countries that are on the US "proscription list" out of it (cannot do business with at all...), China has the worst Human Rights record in the world, and are in a "special category" of their own...

Sorry Ex, I'm not laughing.
 
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exmaxima1

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Outlawmws said:
Do some studying on the modern state of human *******, then ask some of these kinds of questions:

Who determines the wages?
Do the workers have the right to quit?
Do the workers have the right to get a passport and travel freely?
If the workers are "imported" (many are) do they get to keep their passport, or is it "Kept for safe keeping" by the company/Government? Do the workers have the right to leave/quit at will?

I won't even get into common living conditions.

Those are just a few of the questions China fails at. Yes, it's all given a facade of "legality" with BS contracts and conditions imposed on people that are told what they are affixing their "X" to, but either they are illiterate or don't read the language it is written in...

Are they labeled as slaves as was done in the past? No, the lawyers and Chinese (and many other governments) dance carefully around that. Since you "do business" there, go try to start poking into how the workers are treated and paid on some of these topics in these factories. You will have that door slammed in your face, or be given a whitewash story.

The fantasy land you as an American are allowed to see is not the real China. Leaving the 4 countries that are on the US "proscription list" out of it (cannot do business with at all...), China has the worst Human Rights record in the world, and are in a "special category" of their own...

Sorry Ex, I'm not laughing.
Click to expand...

My son's father in law is the GM of a power company, and his mother in law is a professor at a military college. I was able to travel all over China with them and saw much of the Chinese lifestyle. They are Capitalists foremost, and work hard to get ahead---they started in life as workers in the fish industry. Talking to others at their companies, they were shocked that my typical work week was 45 hr, as they worked 35. They buy imported designer clothes and jewelry at 40% markup (blatant protectionism, I'll admit), and extremely high quality cars built there---a Chinese Buick is built like an Audi. In my experience, I feel the atrocities you suggest are over rated.

If anything, what you describe is not much different from pre-Unions USA. I know anyone with an education is free to change jobs to get ahead. They do day trading and invest in stocks. They seem very much like us except they have more respect for each other. At least I can walk down most any China street in the middle of the night and have no worries of getting shot or mugged.

I promise I will say no more about this. I just wanted to note that everything is not always as Fox News/OReilly/Limbaugh would have you think.
 
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CNGsaves

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^ ^ ^ Sorry but they only showed you parts of China they WANTED you to see !! ;)

I'm with Outlaw on this one. When Chinese "workers" live on site and sleep in bunks about the size of coffins, they don't have much say in what's happening to them . . . . other than keep churning out the product for owner of plant.
 
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Outlawmws

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With all due respect Ex, from a practical perspective there are three classes of people in China: The ruling class, the Educated "Capitalist" class you associate with, and everyone else. Get out of the suburbs. Until China "embraced" Capitalism (It's not... a dictatorial oligarchy would be closer.) there were only two real classes. The "Educated" class you associate with, and have married into, are a reasonably new special privileged class and most likely happy to get into the ruling class given the opportunity...

wrt the similarities of Pre Union America; yes and no. even back then a person could say "I quit" and walk away...

As to the safety of walking in China at night; I have no doubt. Since they have the highest rate by any measure of implementing the death penalty of any country on the face of the earth... They take the punishment of ANY crime, seriously, and harshly.

And no, I do not "get my news from Fox News/OReilly/Limbaugh" as you accuse.

I have had occasion to give this one a pretty deep dive, and I'm on rock solid ground. I could go on in intimate and sometimes gross detail, but that would get this far from the thread, and as a matter of fact I like it here, so don't want to get into anything closer to what might be construed as "Politics", so like you, I'll drop this right here and now.

We will just have to agree to disagree, or you can dig a little deeper than your wife's second cousin, twice removed, as a source... You might be shocked at what you might find.

:beer:
 
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Outlawmws

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Farmall, the real concern you should have if the fit and finish satisfy you, is what material it was made of. Is it grey cast iron? (junk) or nodular iron? (Way stronger...)
 
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Farmall450

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Outlawmws said:
Farmall, the real concern you should have if the fit and finish satisfy you, is what material it was made of. Is it grey cast iron? (junk) or nodular iron? (Way stronger...)
Click to expand...

I wasn't planning on grinding some out to find out :lol_hitti
Fit and finish is surprisingly nice. Can't complain for $40 it's pretty heavy.
 
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Virgil Cain

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CNGsaves said:
^ ^ ^ Sorry but they only showed you parts of China they WANTED you to see !! ;)

I'm with Outlaw on this one. When Chinese "workers" live on site and sleep in bunks about the size of coffins, they don't have much say in what's happening to them . . . . other than keep churning out the product for owner of plant.
Click to expand...

You do realize that many U.S. workers lived in very similar conditions as recently as the 1930s/1940s?

Go look at the textile mill towns that used to dot the country. The mills provided everything - housing, education, stores, etc. etc. Very similar to what you'll see in China today.

BTW, I've had some dealings with Chinese contract manufacturers. These are some mighty peculiar slaves. After Chinese New Year (which we just passed), in many factories about half the workers don't come back. They either saved enough money and headed back to the farm, found a better job, or haven't sobered up and will eventually show back up at the factory after another month or so. I don't recall that happening much with real slaves.
 
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