Columbian Vises: history and reliability thread.

[Rileysan]

I am starting this thread to discuss the history of Columbian vises. The discussion has probably taken place in multiple threads throughout the history of GJ, but this info is not consolidated into one thread.

From what I have read, there seems to be a prejudice against Columbian vises because they are not a solid casting - IE they are hollow.

Does hollow casting make Columbian vises inferior?

Taken from the Vises of GJ thread"

I've also read on here where someone mentioned they've seen them beaten to death but still unbroken. I've never seen one broken. Still, they don't have a good following and don't command a good price.

Always odd to me how many Wiltons I see with breaks, but they seem to be the most sought after. They just have that certain something that people flock to.

Setting all anecdotal evidence aside, this thread is dedicated to the aggregation and discussion of historical information about Columbian vises. If you have advertisements, links, or photos of these vises, please post them here!

Here's a link to the vise wiki on Columbians.

http://scuttle.dayid.org/wiki/index.php/Columbian_Vise

Brian

 

[pendragon1998]

You are probably more interested in Columbian bench vises, but they made pretty nice woodworking vises too, as well as clones for Craftsman. I have a thread linked in my sig with a restoration of one of the latter.

 

[Woodworker99]

According to my 1970's Columbian vise catalog their machinst type vise were made of malleable iron not ductile iron like the Wiltons. The thickness of the malleable iron casting must max out at around 1/4 inch thick otherwise the atoms are sharp edged versus rounded edged. The hollow castings would make them less in weight. Is this why some folks do not like Columbians?

 

[Joe Tucci]

Hi can any one tell me what the weight is on a columbian bench vise 204 1/2?

 

[woody 73]

Ask a question get an answer 204 1/2=60lbs.

 

[ssdave]

I've got a couple heavy machinist vises, and one woodworking by Columbian. Excellent vises, all three.

I don't have a picture of the third, it's been out of sight in storage for awhile. It's a 4 1/2 or 5" jaw low profile machinist one, probably from the 1970's. It's an excellent vise.

 

[Joe Tucci]

Ask a question get an answer 204 1/2=60lbs.

Thanks!

 

[kenc184]

Ask a question get an answer 204 1/2=60lbs.

As a comparison the American scale 64 I just picked up - which is a 4-1/2" swivel base vise weighs 79lbs. That's 1/3 heavier than the 60lb Columbian.

 

[davethorik]

As a comparison the American scale 64 I just picked up - which is a 4-1/2" swivel base vise weighs 79lbs. That's 1/3 heavier than the 60lb Columbian.

To be fair, AS and Athol/Starrett vises seem to be the beefiest weight wise for their given size, generally speaking. My old Reed 204-1/2 weighed 68 lbs.

 

[drivesitfar]

ALL: I used to mention that Columbian wasn't my favorite of the old USA made vises and not because of durability cause the pre WWII Columbians seemed to hold up as well as any old vise.

I'm not sure if the original early 1900's Columbians were made with hollow jaws, but maybe some of you guys that SPEAK METAL can tell me when Columbian changed to hollow jaws?

also Columbian was one of the first to move their factories to Japan, Taiwan and China so the quality of their vises changed cause they wanted to hit a certain type of client. most of the big old USA made vise companies were gone just prior to and shortly after WWII so changes were made to stay in business.

I think Clara had some of the original Columbian catalogs and maybe conversations between the owners that i think Outlaw has now that hopefully will have some information in them to share on this thread.

I still own a few Columbians and probably should have kept the 204.5 combination vise i owned, but i traded a friend for his Reed 404.5 that I like/liked better.

RILEY: thanks for starting this thread and it needs more pictures so do you have a few to share? here's a few pics of some of mine that i might own or that i've traded or sold.

VA: do you have any pictures of you big Columbian 208 that sits on your workbench as your daily user that you filled the jaws with lead?

ALL: Columbian also made vises for SEARS/CRAFTSMAN after WWII.

 

[redragoon]

I hope this is a good place to put this information. I purchased a couple Columbian Vises recently and wanted to look for more information.

I found some good information about the bench vises here, but not much for the woodworking vise. It didn't seem to be as old as the No. 143 or 043 that I had so I kept looking for newer catalogs.

Came across this scan of a Warren Tool Catalog No 375 which showed many Columbian tools.



I will include the link to the scan here, and I also managed to download the PDF. It still didn't show my woodworkers model, but others may find it helpful.
https://archive.org/details/WarrenGroupCatalogNo375

 

[derek_m]

I have a Colombian, US made, Craftsman 5" vise. Retro looking, seems like a decent vise from the little bit I've used it so far. Only issue I have with it is the handle is pretty sad... I plan to replace it when I clean up the vise. My 3" Parker vise has a beefier handle.

 

[bobcatdan]

Columbian vises seem to be up to the job in my experience. My go to vise at home is my 503 1/2 over my larger vises. At work the main vise is a 6" columbian pipe vise and it gets the **** beat out of it by everybody with no problems. On the flip side we snapped the dynamic jaw right off the 6" Morgan.

 

[1foxracing]

My 504 I cleaned up and re-painted.

 

[M_George]

My 504 I cleaned up and re-painted.

Tell me about the jaws you added. They look pretty handy.

 

[1foxracing]

^ Just generic soft jaws you can find on Amazon or Ebay for cheap.

 

[NC Rick]

Nice vise!

 

[Username already in use]

I picked up an old Columbian HDWE Co. #504M vise last summer. It's not the prettiest one out there, but it gets the job done.

 

[turbowoodworker]

I have a very old C44 like the one in Drives thumbnail. It is “undesireble” because it is exposed screw type. With the hardy and pipe jaws to boot.
It outlived my dad and will surely outlive me (now that I know that flat spot is not an anvil and banging on the handle with a hammer wont make it any tighter!) These are things I did as a kid.

 

[TheWanderer]

My new (yet old) Columbian C44 4" vise. Age unknown. Best I could come up with online was made from 1941 to ??. So it is between 1 day old and 78 years, 4 months, 19 days old.

He let the C44 go cheaper because of a crack in the swivel base.

 

[TheWanderer]

Thanks to redragoons link to that pdf I was able to find this.

ColumbianViseAndMfgCo1959

https://archive.org/details/ColumbianViseAndMfgCo1959

Not that is gives me a whole lot more to go on for my C44, but seems it is appropriate for this Columbian vise history thread.

 

[TheWanderer]

And the 8th page

 

[TheWanderer]

Page 124 from

Bruce's School Shop Annual: Industrial-arts and Vocational Education 1930 edition.

https://books.google.com/books?id=a...nepage&q=columbian vise catalog 291-b&f=false

Now we just need "Columbian Catalog, No. 291-B"

 

[jgromada]

i have an old rusty Columbian sitting around. I just use it and have never closely examined it. Where do they put the model number?

 

[Jedaniel]

I found a Columbian Hardware 505 in a barn in rural Alabama. It looks a lot like the 504 that Username Already in Use has in the above post. There's no anvil face on the back. Also there's no ground oval in the casting for a serial number stamp. Any ideas about age? I have found one small reference to when Columbian Hardware became Columbian Vise and Manufacturing, but it was a broad range from the 20s to the 40s.

More importantly, the jaw inserts are not original and are not pinned or screwed in place. Any idea where to get authentic jaw inserts? I am coming up short on the interwebs.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[Outwest]

This seems to be the most recent thread regarding Columbian vises, so maybe I can get some input here. Does anyone have any experience with recent production Wilton branded Columbian vises, specifically the 605M3 series? They are supposed to be 60,000 psi ductile, U.S. Made. I'm looking for another vise and the new production Wiltons are apparently now built offshore. Used bullet vises don't seem to pop up around here and I'd like something of quality. Thanks for any information.

 

[AngryBeaver]

This seems to be the most recent thread regarding Columbian vises, so maybe I can get some input here. Does anyone have any experience with recent production Wilton branded Columbian vises, specifically the 605M3 series? They are supposed to be 60,000 psi ductile, U.S. Made. I'm looking for another vise and the new production Wiltons are apparently now built offshore. Used bullet vises don't seem to pop up around here and I'd like something of quality. Thanks for any information.

the M3 series columbians were built in Warren Ohio. Wilton bought out the columbian name and ran with it for a few years, and finally killed the name a few years ago.

Any M series columbian is a damn good vise. I've yet to see one broken. Ive seen the dynamic jaws dented in from sledge hammer marks, bent handles from cheater pipes and hammers, or nuts worn out, and even ran into one 204-1/2 M2 that was dented so badly from hammering (I'm guessing trying to use it at a press) that they bent the handle and spindle and the thing still worked well.

 

[Outwest]

Thanks for the reply. That's reassuring to know they're a well built vise.

 

[tool_scrounge]

Well I finally ran into one - a broken Columbian 504M vise.

Oddly though, it was the leadscrew that sheared in half, nothing to do with the casting. Interestingly, the handle is not bend like a pretzel. The previous owner says he was just clamping a piece of metal by hand and it kept turning but not tightening. The story was he got it from his dad who had it in their workshop in the 1950s. The vise body had been hammered on a bit, but no casting failure. But I had to carefully file the slide for half an hour to disassemble it.

My first guess is it was a fatigue failure, possibly cased by a defect in the screw? The screw failed at the location right in front of the nut when the vise is closed.

Sadly, Columbian used a 7/8-4 acme looking thread, which does not look to be available. A standard thread is 7/8-6 and that thread is available. I'll put a wanted posting in the Vise Parts Swap thread and see if there are any Craftsman/Columbian screws available. None on Ebay. Is there another source I should look at?

 

[shooter05]

Howdy all! I just got a columbian 5CD vise. How do i tell how old it is?

 

[georgiadave]

I have a Colombian, US made, Craftsman 5" vise. Retro looking, seems like a decent vise from the little bit I've used it so far. Only issue I have with it is the handle is pretty sad... I plan to replace it when I clean up the vise. My 3" Parker vise has a beefier handle.

The handle is sized to the strength of the mechanism in the vise.

 

[drivesitfar]

ALL: did Columbian make vises for Armstrong or was it maybe Morgan?

 

[1982fxr]

I've had two Columbians that style that were Armstrong badged.

Not saying Morgan never did as well though

If it's Columbian it should have the little raised pad on the side of the static jaw body with 505 or whatever stamped on it.

 

[Terry D]

I've got a couple heavy machinist vises, and one woodworking by Columbian. Excellent vises, all three.

I don't have a picture of the third, it's been out of sight in storage for awhile. It's a 4 1/2 or 5" jaw low profile machinist one, probably from the 1970's. It's an excellent vise.

I have a 604 1/2 which is identical to your 504 1/2 except mine has a swivel base. The lettering is identical, do you know the age of it. I have always be curious about how old it is.

 

[bedoug]

Hi, I’m new to this site and I’m enjoying the thread. I have been searching for some information regarding the vise I recently picked up. It’s a Columbian 505. I think it’s a real early one, but was looking for some insight from those who know better than me. It does not say “vise” anywhere on it. One side reads PATENT APPL. FOR with a triangle and an embossed C inside of it. The other side reads COLUMBIAN CLEVELAND NO-505 5 IN. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated as I am trying to date this unit. Thanks, bedoug

 

[drivesitfar]

BeDoug: I can't say how old your columbian is, but if it says patent on it I think those might have been prior to WW2. if you'd like to make a few more posts on other threads with comments that might help other members or just say WELL DONE so you can add to your post count then you can post up a few pics of your vise that might help another member help you. AND we all like vise pics cause it's kinda our **** so to speak.

cheers and good luck

 

[rsw81]

This is a great post with some beautiful vises. I'm looking at a Columbian 604 1/2, but the seller can't seem to find an M marking on it. I've read on here that M2 is good, M3 is ok. What does it mean when the vise has no M marking? Does this pre-date M marking and is good or post-date M marking and is bad?
- Rob

 

[bedoug]

BeDoug: I can't say how old your columbian is, but if it says patent on it I think those might have been prior to WW2. if you'd like to make a few more posts on other threads with comments that might help other members or just say WELL DONE so you can add to your post count then you can post up a few pics of your vise that might help another member help you. AND we all like vise pics cause it's kinda our **** so to speak.

cheers and good luck

Drivesitfar, thanks for the information, I appreciate the feedback. I didn’t realize you had replied, otherwise, I would have thanked you earlier. I am going to take your advice and post in another spot. Hopefully, picture status will come soon, so I can include a few for identification help. BeDoug

 

[Dagny]

My columbian has a red arrow on it and says red arrow. whats that mean?

 

[drivesitfar]

BeDoug: best of luck and I click on the paperclip to download pics, but i've seen new members post pics on their first post so maybe using Imgur and eliminating the s in https would allow you to post up links of your pics. or just make some more posts and post your own pics like I do with the paperclip method.

make a post on my garage ORGANIZING (or not organizing most days) thread.

RSW: I'd say if your vise doesn't have an M in the # that your vise is older and maybe post pics here or on the vintage vise history thread in vintage tools.

Dagny: no clue, but maybe posting this over on the vise history thread that gets a few more member's eyes might give you the answer. here's the link:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=283430