Combative Neighbors

[bdkruger1]

Believe me, I fully understand the " It's MY property and I'LL do with it as I please". I get that 100% and feel it's every American's right to do with their property as they please. However I also feel that there's some " Oh, you wont give me a right of way? Well then here, have a little of THIS" going on as well.

I'm also willing to bet that the OP thought that no one would EVER build on that lot, and found out otherwise when it was too late.

 

[tuber]

I think that the OP's garage is situated perfectly - he now has a much more private back yard without the neighbors front window looking into it... nice job on a great looking garage!

 

[787B]

It looks like you could have very easily built the garage in the corner with the red vehicle and run your own driveway parallel to the neighbor's driveway.

EDIT:
Having read the remainder of the thread, I think the current orientation may be the least ******..but still ******. IMO, The OP has a nice garage awkardly placed on an awkward lot.

After reading the remainder of the thread you saw where the OP addressed the question of running a driveway down the other side of his house? It was not practical.

This will get many of y'all riled up, but;

The OP stated that this is a scaled down version of his 'dream garage'; e.g. this is *not* his dream garage, merely something he had to settlr for. Furthermore, the garage and driveway 'as built' are not great...merely 'workable' for 40'+ trailer combo, etc.

With this in mind I would very seriously looked at moving to a better property instead of making do with the current property and lesser garage.

Maybe he did. I know that around where I live there are many people in this situation where they bought 20 years ago and now want to upgrade, but can't afford to buy a bigger lot anywhere near where live now. If you live in certain parts of Baltimore County, you would have to move 50+ miles away to be able to find an affordable house with more than 0.25 acres. So moving may not be possible for the OP.

We all want a 25,000 SF Dream Garage with foot-thick solid polished granite floors and hot and cold running babes, but damn few of us can afford it, so we all have to "settle" for what we can afford.

 

[Boost Creep]

the way i see it, if the neighbors wanted space and a view and all that ****, they should move to the country and buy 20+ acres and live in the middle of it. they chose to live where they do knowing it appears to be a more residential area and theres not going to be as much room for all that and theres a possibility that something could be build like that close to their house. the op shouldn't feel bad for building something he wants on his own land just because theres a house nearby

 

[PCO6]

The ones I feel sorry for are the people who are just out of the air photo. Not many people like to live next to "combative neighbors".

 

[blue dog]

I'm the Vice-Chairman for the Planning and Zoning Commission in my town. I can attest that it's not easy to obtain variance, or re-zone an area. There's many considerations such as:

• Federal Law.
• State Law.
• County Law.
• Environmental concerns.
• Neighborhood Use laws (not always zoning).
• Citizen Input.
• A couple of public meetings for citizen input.
• Town Council Input/ratification.
• Post law adoption ramifications.

Anyone that thinks it's easy to change zoning laws or obtain a variance needs to sit on a Zoning & Planning Commission for a while. They'll learn the opposite.

The ease of changing these things is inversely proportional to the size of the area the commission governs. I can only imagine how hard/lont it would be in a large metro area.

I have read this entire thread and find this situation to be a bad deal for all. The last thing any of us wants is to have a poor relationship with our immediate neighbors. All though the OP did his due diligence, and conformed to all city and county codes legally, this matter seems to be far from over. On that note i will say that i am a custom home developer in Los angeles and spend a lot of time and energy and money dealing with, city council, zoning and planning and the building department on my projects. 3 years ago i got the green light to sub divide and build 3 custom homes with a total of 12 variances, i did not build anything out of the norm for the neighborhood and the lots were bigger then all existing lots when i was done. This process took 3 years to get permits, meanwhile i was paying a mortgage on a $750,000 property that should have only taken me 6 months tops to get variances approved and building permits. I will say that there are people that have nothing better to do than attend a city council meeting and vote against everything for some reason, dose not matter if they know anything about your project or not. My thought is that if you are not directly related or effected by a zoning issue, you should not legally be able to voice your opinion that is copied in meeting minutes.
Was this project approved by the building department solely, or was there a zoning planning meeting with city council regarding this build? What city or area is the OP located.
I will say that i have been granted a few permits for construction against neighbors wishes, and in the end they have pissed me off to the point that i have made there lives hell during construction just out of spite, not saying it is right, but sometimes you come across those people that are just not willing to compromise and go beyond by trying to make everything a nightmare for you, well, what comes around goes around.
FU@@ it, enjoy your new garage and make as much noise as possible. Can i buy your children matching drum sets and lessons for there new roll up door music studio.

 

[DuluthMN]

Why are we still talking about this? Who cares and what lessons are learned with over a 100 different point of views.

 

[TAMPAGT07]

Why are we still talking about this? Who cares and what lessons are learned with over a 100 different point of views.

You just extended the thread into another day. (And me, a few more hours.) I never understood why members ask questions like this. There are hundreds of threads that I have no intrest in, so I just don't post. If there is an intrest, people will post. If you don't like the topic, just let it go.

 

[Fubar]

Basically when you live in a town that has setbacks like this (my town it's 25' ,so it's 50' total), you are going to run into situations like this. So if one builds close to the property line (small lot, or not) who's to say the others at fault for doing the same? Is it the fault of one that other that the other has the small lot? I'd say each knew what could be the outcome (setback-wise) when purchasing the property's, and there should be no surprise with this outcome. The OP was no more entitled to the man not building in his back yard than the man was to say anything about the garage. This shouldn't even be an argument with that prior knowledge. Anybody with the argument that the smaller lot was somehow wronged by this is saying that that man is entitled to more than the OP because he (knowingly) bought less land.

That's not right.

 

[SuperSocket]

The neighbors appears to have a drag strip driveway, lol. If I was that neighbor, I would take 4 to 5 feet off my driveway width and plant that with trees and shrubbery.... cover up your lot and isolate his.


I think it is a dickish location but in the end of the day it's all about the law and ordinances.

 

[babzog]

It was a tough situation ..... in the end no agreement was reached. At that point I needed to either move forward or abandon the project. I choose to move forward. I don't know if that is the choice that everyone would have made....

I think you made the right decision (in proceeding), even though it may cause some headaches down the road (ie: noise complaints). Like others have said, quietly enjoy your shop without further irritating the neighbours - you won and they are reminded of that every day.

 

[babzog]

i'd like to have the huge garage/workspace that i think i should have, but i know sometime in the future either myself, the ol' lady or her kids are going to have to deal with it.
quite possibly the next owner of my house wouldnt want or like my garage, and would rather have the larger backyard.

I've never understood this (unless you know you'er only staying for a very short while). Who gives a **** what the next owner (which could be decades away) of the property might desire? It's your property - do with it as you will.

 

[R6 Racer]

I think the situation is absolutely great for both neighbors. The OP has a beauty of a garage & the neighbor has a very private yard. Dougmac should put up a fence along the back & side of his property. The neighbor should plant a garden (trees, shrubs & flowers) along the OP's back fence & let what appears to be a hedge row (down both sides of his "wide" driveway) along the OP's side grow to a height that reduces the "view" of the OP's garage! Too many people dwell on the negative in this world! Why not enjoy what we have?
I would have done the exact same as dougmac did, & felt good about it!
As the neighbor I would rather have the garage there providing me some privacy than have to look at a parking lot!
Dougmac, I think you have a fantastic place there... ENJOY it ! I love the additional privacy you now have in your back yard & the fact that no one can see into your garage from the street!
I would however suggest that you install a very good alarm & fire suppression system ASAP! (also that fence I talked about earlier in this post)

Steve

 

[Kevin54]

Robert,
They have a small fence there now and I have tried to discuss with them the possibility of doing something to mask the shop but at this point they pretty much refuse to even talk with me.

I just read this complete thread and find it rather amusing. The OP gets blasted for building something on his property and not building it to the point where his neighbors are happy. I think if a lot of people would read the complete thread instead of starting in the middle and commenting on others remarks, they would find that Dougmac has tried to accommodate his neighbors to no avail. And if they read through the complete thread they will read where he downsized the garage from what he originally wanted.
I would have done the same thing as Dougmac. For one, I don't want someone sitting in their living room watching every move I make out in my backyard. Turn the thread around a little to make another scenario. Say Dougmac has a hot little daughter and wife that likes to lay out and sun themselves on the back deck but the neighbor is constantly peering out the front window at them. How many would then say, "build your garage in that area" or "build a tall fence" to keep the pervs eyes from seeing anything.
At least the garage is a good looking garage instead of something slapped together from used lumber. It is not a pole barn and the neighbors are not staring at sheetmetal siding. It is an appealing garage. To some people the house on the flag lot might be appealing due to the fact that it has privacy. A little different landscaping might be in order to make the situation more appealing, but if they ever decide to sell it, they just might not have any problem at all. It's all about the right buyers. I would like to see an aerial shot of some of the other surrounding houses. It looks to me that the house just almost out of site is built right on the flag properties house. So I wonder how they feel with a house crammed 5' away from their house? It looks to me that the flag property was really an afterthought and the contractor figured that they could shove one more house in just to make a little more money. I see that done all the time where I live. They will shove a 1600 sq.ft. house onto an 1800 sq.ft. property and allow it, just to get tax revenue.
Kudos to Dougmac for at least trying to resolve the dispute with his neighbor. He tried a few different things and talked to them but they did not want to listen or at least even try to work with him with something that would make all happy. Now everyone feels sorry for them that their view is blocked off. They should have been smarter than to by something that overlooks a backyard in the first place.

 

[Shadowdog500]

You read the entire thread MINUS ONE VERRY DAMMING PICTURE that was removed from post #50!

Until I saw the street view I was OK with it too.

Dougmac,

Please repost the driveway shot!!!

Chris

 

[Bootybug]

I would have done the off-set build, unless my neighbor was a real jerk. But I have to be honest, I'm still not sure I would have built it right in front of his house like that. I just feel that it is rude. It is not what I would have done. Would it have been that much of a big deal to angle the garage or deal with the offset? I just say this as you should treat your neighbor like your brother.

Ok, you gotta do it. So I'd first erect a privacy fence for six months-then drop the bomb. Two things get accomplished here; 1. You get them used to the sight, 2. You have provided a nice buffer for them to see besides your garage.

I'm not the guy involved so perhaps my actions would be different--I'm not in your shoes. I can say I would never do that to my neighbors.

Sorry to see such a situation develop. If things are at a speaking level, perhaps you can place nice flowering vines adjacent to the building (not on it, but on vine boards). It would be a nice symbol of peace and consideration.

Good luck to you.

 

[ddawg16]

Actually....the pic just supports the stupidity of the builder who built the house in the back....the OP's property is basically a square. The neighbor has an 'L' shaped piece next to it and behind it. The neighbor chose to build the house behind the property with the view outside the living room looking over the OP's yard. So the neighbors expect to have and unobstructed view for the life of their house?

Classic case of cutting off your nose to spite yourself....

 

[mpire]

...to spite your face.

 

[srmofo]

old thread is old...... I like turtles

 

[Auzivision]

You read the entire thread MINUS ONE VERRY DAMMING PICTURE that was removed from post #50!

Until I saw the street view I was OK with it too.

Dougmac,

Please repost the driveway shot!!!

Chris

I read the entire post and had the exact same reaction. That photo changed my opinion 100% and without that photo, this thread is completely skewed.

 

[cheap bastard]

Ok, the guy buys a home on a flag shaped lot due to it's lower price and maybe even taxes due to a small street frontage. He then expects the neighbors to pay a personal use price for his decision. That's just his lack of forethought in the situation. I have passed on property deals due to such situations. I'm no expert, but the problems with such properties are obvious. I have even seen a flag within a flag so the middle property has no privacy, no view and no room. It was surrounded by homes on four sides with a long driveway to keep clean of snow, but areas with little room to put it. It would require plowing as opposed to blowing which would surely infuriate one of the neighbors. The house and garage covered nearly 1/2 of the available property leaving no room for expansion and risking very close building distances if a neighbor chose to. It was a great deal, but there was no way I would be happy and the risk of someone being unhappy with my lifestyle was too great.
The OP's neighbor made a bad choice because he didn't think the situation through. In this area, much of the older waterfront property is arranged in such a manner. Most real estate agents representing the buyer (if one is used) will not point out the issue. The agent for the seller surely won't as they are legally required to represent the seller's best interests, as it should be.

 

[dougmac]

Sorry ...

I put the picture here so that it would fully illustrate what happened in my situation and we could have a discussion about this. I was willing to take a beating in this forum from all that wanted to voice their opinion. It made for a great topic and a great discussion.

Some folks decided that they would use the picture in their own personal attacks and post it in places outside of the original thread. I want to be free to enjoy the board like all of you other great GJ fans without having this picture thrown up whenever I posted to the board. If I could keep it in this thread without handing it out as a tool that others could use to harass me, I would in a second.

Doug

 

[glntom]

Dougmac,
I have read the whole thread and I would have done as you did. You tried to reach a compromise, they declined.
The owners of the flag lot could have built anywhere on their lot, but chose IMHO the worst possible placement for their house. That is not your problem. Thats what zoning and building codes are for.
Enjoy your garage.

edit: I saw the picture.... the neighbors made their bed(twice, built in a bad spot and wouldn't work with him) let them sleep in it.
IMHO some people here need to rethink their stance on property rights, OR don't move next door to me

 

[W_A_Watson_II]

dougmc,

A great looking shop and well done. You approached them with an option, they chose to not work with you and you built where you had to to get access. I like having some neighbors, but hate most home owners associations, as they act like the governmental elite and think they know better how you should live your life.

Live your life free and enjoy!

 

[HemiRambler]

We had a new pair of neighbors - at first they were OVERLY friendly/nice. A situation that makes me raise an eyebrow (call it the pessimist in me). Very shortly after they move in they proceed to tell me how they are going to tear down the fence to build a taller one. To which I reply, well that's MY fence and I like it just fine. Keep in mind they are adjacent to my property. I have a long lot that on one side has 6 or so neighbor's lots butting up to the side of my lot. I have a fence that runs the length of my lot - they are in the middle and wanted to tear down a section of my fence so that they could neatly fence in the rear of their lot - well that's all fine and dandy but I want the same luxury and as a matter of fact I already have it. So now I am the a$$hole. To be perfectly honest - I am totally OK with that - I'd just assume know up front how people really are. They've been jackwagons ever since. Can you spell P-H-O-N-E-Y ? I hate it when I am right about people - but these people were easy to spot a mile away. Their solution was to build a wooden fence 2 feet away from mine. It's not installed to code - it's not code itself (supposed to be shadow box) and your not even allowed to put 2 fences up against one line here. All of which I don't care - I'm not looking to make waves. After a couple months they started to pile dirt between the fences - to which I tell them is a bit ridiculous piling it 2 feet tall against my fence. They give me some line about it be ok when it's settles. Apparently my IQ is now 5 and I am supposed to believe this crock of *&^&%. I later tell them - they can either remove the dirt and level it with the existing grade or the city can resolve this for us - their choice. They decide to move it themselves - wise choice.
This wasn't a road I wanted to travel, but gettting stepped on by thoughtless neighbors isn't a road I prefer.

Bottom line - treat your neighbors as you want to be treated - my neighbors would have **** if I was the one piling dirt 2 feet up against their fence - yet it is somehow OK when they do it??

As for the OP - - it sounds as if he attempted resolution and his neighbors chose to bury their head in the sand rather than try to work with him - what should he have done?? Place his life on hold while they bury their heads in the sand? It was a bad situation he tried to make the best of - I can't fault him.

 

[tonydanzah]

so good...

 

[stormr]

I can see the points from both sides, but if it were me I would actually rather have the extra privacy of having your shop in front of my house, thats just me though, but if I had been in thier situation I wouldve worked on an agreement if I didnt want the shop in front of my house, I'm really glad my neighbors are all really cool about stuff like that, my shop is centered in my lot almost so at 3 am when i'm finishing a beer and listening to music loud no one can here it at all. Revving up the mach on the otherhand different story, but one neighbor has a 69 camaro, and other a vette so I dont think theyd complain anyways.

 

[MScott]

My first experience with an a**hole neighbour came on the first day I moved into my first house. The first words this neighbour said to me were "That fence of yours is 1" on my side of the property line and I want it moved." I couldn't believe he was serious. I was raised in the country where most property line fences were zig-zag rail fences which may or may not have been within a few feet of the actual property line and no one cared.
When I realized he was not kidding, I told him that I was not going to replace the fence, but that if he wanted to build a new one, he was welcome to do so....but to make sure it was on his side of the line.
This idiot had the line resurveyed, built a new fence (which had to have the "good" side facing my property and, in the process lost 6 - 8 inches of property....all because a perfectly good fence was 1" on his side. What a *****. Talk about cutting of your nose to spite your face.

 

[Shadowdog500]

Sorry ...

I put the picture here so that it would fully illustrate what happened in my situation and we could have a discussion about this. I was willing to take a beating in this forum from all that wanted to voice their opinion. It made for a great topic and a great discussion.

Some folks decided that they would use the picture in their own personal attacks and post it in places outside of the original thread. I want to be free to enjoy the board like all of you other great GJ fans without having this picture thrown up whenever I posted to the board. If I could keep it in this thread without handing it out as a tool that others could use to harass me, I would in a second.

Doug

The fact that people started using that one photo against you on other threads just helps to show just how damming it was. I strongly agree that without that photo, this thread is completely skewed, and anyone commenting without seeing it is not anywhere near fully informed.

I was kind of hoping this thread would have died a long time ago. Is there anyway you can get this thread locked, closed, or just make it disappear all together, so we don't keep having this debate between those of us who have seen the photo and those who haven't..


Thanks,

Chris

 

[2chipped]

The fact that people started using that one photo against you on other threads just helps to show just how damming it was. I strongly agree that without that photo, this thread is completely skewed, and anyone commenting without seeing it is not anywhere near fully informed.

I was kind of hoping this thread would have died a long time ago. Is there anyway you can get this thread locked, closed, or just make it disappear all together, so we don't keep having this debate between those of us who have seen the photo and those who haven't..


Thanks,

Chris

I didn't see the pic, and it wouldn't affect me anyway. Bottom line is you act like you want this thread to go away,but you pull down your ******* and show your 3yr-old *** by re posting. Btw the op has not asked what he should do. The Q was have you had to deal with idiot neighbors,apparently there are several here in gj.

 

[Shadowdog500]

I didn't see the pic, and it wouldn't affect me anyway. Bottom line is you act like you want this thread to go away,but you pull down your ******* and show your 3yr-old *** by re posting. Btw the op has not asked what he should do. The Q was have you had to deal with idiot neighbors,apparently there are several here in gj.

How the HELL do you know how a photo you didnt see would affect you!!!!
I guess you are some sort of psychic!!!

Chris

 

[Okie Pete]

Dougmac that is a very nice garage . The real a**hole here is the land developer . Developers buy up land then sell it to folks .Who just want to get out of town. The new comers then try to enforce their views on their neighbors . O your cows smell ,why is it so dusty , my dog stays home it would never chase your animals . Sorry i got of track. Dougmac get some goats to mow your yard . Than build a 8 foot tall goat proof fence around your place .

 

[2chipped]

How the HELL do you know how a photo you didnt see would affect you!!!!
I guess you are some sort of psychic!!!

Because he did his' due diligence and tried to work with the idiot who decided that his view would be up to the neighbour. See i run into you and your ilk when I get paid to install fencing. Example ,had a young dude pay us to install a 6ft privacy fence along the back of his property that was also the neighbour's . Neighbours complained about everything. 1st time owner was worried,so I told him until they make his payment,and taxes they can make all the changes they want. We have idiots running to Norway to stop whaling instead of doing something positive. Remember its easier to be destructive, then constructive. Remember the hot coffee you buy is still hot when it spills on your twigs and berries .

 

[787B]

The fact that people started using that one photo against you on other threads just helps to show just how damming it was. I strongly agree that without that photo, this thread is completely skewed, and anyone commenting without seeing it is not anywhere near fully informed.

I saw it. I am fully-informed. You are dead-wrong. Doug acted 100% legally and 100% ethically.

If you choose to surrender your property rights to your neighbor's whims, that's your prerogative. But in the United States I do not have to surrender my rights to you just because you are stupid enough to buy a flag lot without checking the little things like setbacks etc.

 

[Shadowdog500]

Because he did his' due diligence and tried to work with the idiot who decided that his view would be up to the neighbour. See i run into you and your ilk when I get paid to install fencing. Example ,had a young dude pay us to install a 6ft privacy fence along the back of his property that was also the neighbour's . Neighbours complained about everything. 1st time owner was worried,so I told him until they make his payment,and taxes they can make all the changes they want. We have idiots running to Norway to stop whaling instead of doing something positive. Remember its easier to be destructive, then constructive. Remember the hot coffee you buy is still hot when it spills on your twigs and berries .

You really need to see that photo. The guy in the rear house lost all property value of his house as soon as the garage went up. It dwarfs the the rear neighbors house and blocks at least half of it. .

Think of a photo like this.

I cant believe that this garage could not be put in a different location.

Chris

 

[W_A_Watson_II]

Hey Shadowdog500, sounds like there is a 5' set back, so I bet there is at least 10' between the walls!

His neighbor had the opportunity to work with him and declined, so he got no voice in the result, it's the neighbors problem, not the OP's.

 

[Shadowdog500]

I saw it. I am fully-informed. You are dead-wrong. Doug acted 100% legally and 100% ethically.

If you choose to surrender your property rights to your neighbor's whims, that's your prerogative. But in the United States I do not have to surrender my rights to you just because you are stupid enough to buy a flag lot without checking the little things like setbacks etc.

At least you got to make an informed decision. Some of the recent people on this thread can not because they dont have all of the facts. As I said in a previous post, I do agree the person on the rear house was stupid for putting his house there.

Chris

 

[SnowBlaZeR2]

I didn't see the picture and I don't need to. My property, my rules. I don't care if he built that garage on their front porch. If it's his property, he calls the shots. Simple rules to life people. I see no room for argument there.

 

[gloveman132]

This is a very eye opening thread.

Some of you seem to be arguing that the people on the flag lot actually have some kind of a right to a view of the OP's back yard!

How many of you arguing this position have privacy fences in your back yards?

The guy who should be pissed is the OP, they ruined the view of his back yard with that ****** looking house.

Yes, I read the entire thread.

 

[glntom]

I cant believe that this garage could not be put in a different location.

Chris


Chris

It could have been, the neighbor(owner of the flag lot) would not work with him.