Combination Squares

[cjarvis]

Guys,

I need a new 6" combination square for woodworking. Please recommend a decent quality tool that's accurate and easy to read in the $30-40 range. Stainless rules are preferred.

As nice as Starrett, PEC and Brown & Sharpe are, I don't need that much tool, but I don't want Hazard Fraught quality either.

Thanks!

 

[Bogie1632]

Swanson 6", 12" or 16". Either can be had for under $20.

V/R
Bogie

 

[dogdog]

I have a lot of the craftsman ones when they were discontinue it 6" 12" 16", I have the HF one 6" 16" 24", they worked fine., but to each their own. The craftsman one is a bit beefier and more sturdy...

If I were to buy another one now that craftsman one doesn't seems to be available...
Swanson or Johnson ones they sell at HD or lows is fine, they are pretty nice feel to it.

see if your area sears still have this?
https://www.sears.com/craftsman-6-in-pocket-combination-square/p-A033000730

Oh yea also that Empire one is not too bad when I play with it at HD... but if you are COO sensitive... probably stay with the name brand you mentioned ... "Starrett, PEC and Brown & Sharpe "

 

[plinker]

Empire squares & levels were USA made last I knew, I have a couple of them and they are nice. Milwaukee had bought them not too long ago, but claimed they were not off shoring them....

 

[matt_i]

Its not combo with the sliding ruler function but for establishing squareness something like this would probably work.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003GKCK3Q/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Its not a brand I have in my shop but I feel that for woodworking it would be quite sufficient.

 

[cjarvis]

I have a set of solid machinist's squares like the kaufhof listed above. I use my combo squares as a depth gauge or marking gauge quite a bit and I wore out the clamping screw (zamac) on my older Empire square, so it won't hold the blade any more. COO isn't as important to me on this as quality parts and accuracy.

 

[matt_i]

I think the names you listed in your first post would supply the quality you want.

I'm inferring you want that quality at a lower price point tho....

Do you have any machinist friends? They may be able to duplicate the clamping screw in steel and then you are back in business.

 

[jeepnut24]

I bought a vintage lufkin square from flebay for that price range. Far better tool than I can buy new for that much.... Plus it came with a center finder and protractor. Might be worth waiting to find a deal on a lesser name. Craftsman also comes to mind

But if new, maybe the US made Empire stuff?? But it sounds like you should check the squareness of those before you leave the store. This cheap, you could buy one for every flat surface in the shop and never have to look for it.

https://toolguyd.com/empire-combination-square-gift-guide-2020/

 

[Spacey_G]

I have a Swanson that came in a package deal with their speed square and a Starrett w/forged steel head and satin chrome rule that I bought when I had had enough of the Swanson.

The cheap ones are okay. The soft zinc or aluminum heads are easy to scrape into square but they're just not very nice tools to use.

A 6" combo square is one of the most used tools in the wood shop. A common task is to set the ruler for a certain depth, reference the square on the edge of a board, and make a mark off the end of the ruler. With the Swanson, A) the ruler doesn't slide easily, B) the head is not ground very precisely, so setting a depth to a ruler marking isn't very accurate, and C) the ruler is stamped with a unfinished end, so you don't get a precise mark.

Unfortunately I don't think there's a decent square out there in your price range. It's either the cheap stuff for <$20 or the good stuff for $70+. Honestly, I would seriously consider paying the $75 for a PEC. $100-120 for the Starrett gets you diminishing returns, but the PEC really is orders of magnitude better than the Swansons, Empires, etc.

 

[RoundedNut]

I suggest one of the Swansons.

I have a couple of Empires but they're rougher than the Swansons and I had to cherry pick from the batch at Home Depot as some had rulers that were miscut by 1/16" on one side.

All the cheap ones can use a bit of tuning to be square and the ruler edges some smoothing. They're good enough for basic woodworking.

No experience but iGaging may be a bit better option.

 

[Formerjeeper]

How about a PEC blem from Harry Epstein for $24:

https://www.harryepstein.com/12-2-p...MjMMO1mkYdeUplfIof7bX-GTMW9x0ZaxoCkgwQAvD_BwE

 

[cjarvis]

How about a PEC blem from Harry Epstein for $24:

https://www.harryepstein.com/12-2-p...MjMMO1mkYdeUplfIof7bX-GTMW9x0ZaxoCkgwQAvD_BwE

Well, that just cost me $45 for the 3-piece set with shipping... I’ll still need a 6” sq. though.

I was looking at the iGauging set. I have a set of their solid squares and they’re nice for the money.

 

[PugetDude]

How about a PEC blem from Harry Epstein for $24:

https://www.harryepstein.com/12-2-p...MjMMO1mkYdeUplfIof7bX-GTMW9x0ZaxoCkgwQAvD_BwE

Winner so far...

 

[RTM]

I was going to suggest the PEC double square at HJE also, but jeeper beat me too it.

I have a 4”, and love it. Have several vintage Lufkin and Starrett combos, and rarely use the miter side in the shop.

 

[macgee]

Guys,

I need a new 6" combination square for woodworking. Please recommend a decent quality tool that's accurate and easy to read in the $30-40 range. Stainless rules are preferred.

As nice as Starrett, PEC and Brown & Sharpe are, I don't need that much tool, but I don't want Hazard Fraught quality either.

Thanks!

EDIT:

Cjarvis,

Its been a while but I've purchased several of these PEC blems and they were dead on square, no issues and still going strong. PEC blems are usually from misprints for OEM private labeling and the label is grounded off the blade, they make a lot of Mitutoyo's rulers who are super picky.

If you already ordered a 12" combo from H. Epstein, just add this 6" double square for $24 to the order and you wont have to pay shipping for it?

https://www.harryepstein.com/pec-6-double-square-4r-usa-8ths-16ths-32nds-64ths.html


On eBay, this seller has been selling the same PEC's combination squares and all kind of blades for them in every length for many years:

https://www.ebay.com/str/Taylor-Toolworks?_trksid=p2047675.l2563



.

 

[pkpk]

I've been looking to upgrade my collection of measuring tools so thanks everyone for sharing all the info!

Through a youtube video I found this link - https://taytools.com/collections/tools-blemished-cosmetic-seconds - but looks like Harry Epstein and that Taylor Toolworks eBay seller might have better prices.

I have a Starrett 12" ruler, and recently picked up a lot at auction that included Brown & Sharpe protractor and center-finder heads, and they fit the ruler perfectly. Now looking for a standard 90/45 head, but seems like it's hard to just find those from the high-quality brands on their own.

 

[Davefr]

For woodworking, the protractor head and center finder come in handy. This is what I'd look for:

https://taytools.com/collections/to...ts/pec-blem-12-4-piece-16r-combination-square

It's also nice to have a 4" or 6" double square:

https://taytools.com/collections/to...ts/pec-blem-12-4-piece-16r-combination-square

Check Ebay for used Starrett also.

 

[BD1]

As stated, get a 6" double square. If you have never used one, you'll wonder why you didn't buy one .
Set to say 1/2" gauge, mark, turn, and mark intersecting line for centers.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005896BJ2/?tag=atomicindus08-20


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[cjarvis]

I ordered the PEC combination square with the center finder from HJE. I already have a Starrett protractor for it that my FIL gave me.

I'm still on the fence as to whether I want to get the 6" double square or a 6" combination square.

 

[DHCrocks]

I second the double square. I got this set.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00XY185MW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

They are accurate and what I really like is how compact they are. Really convenient to use compared to a combination square since the head is less bulky. If you don't need the 45-degree then these are great.

 

[tarbellb]

Lots of good suggestions, I would double up on:

Cheap new- Empire, USA made, good enough quality

Cheap used- Ebay Sterret, Craftsman, Lufkin, Brown, etc...

Little more $- PEC blems

 

[jeepnut24]

As stated, get a 6" double square. If you have never used one, you'll wonder why you didn't buy one .
Set to say 1/2" gauge, mark, turn, and mark intersecting line for centers.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005896BJ2/?tag=atomicindus08-20


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Also a good suggestion...

I was also going to suggest looking at try squares for woodworking. Sometime cheaper, and still more than useful for wood work. Or, got super custom and get a reallllly nice hand made try square.

 

[whateg01]

How about a PEC blem from Harry Epstein for $24:

https://www.harryepstein.com/12-2-p...MjMMO1mkYdeUplfIof7bX-GTMW9x0ZaxoCkgwQAvD_BwE

I bought a bunch of 6" stainless rules as blems a few years ago. On one job, I kept missing a dimension by about 0.030". It wasn't a critical dimension, but shouldn't have been off that far. Finally noticed what the blem was - the 2" mark was off by about 0.030". Everything else was fine. I don't know what happened to the rest of those rules. I'm sure I didn't toss them, but I haven't seen them since then, either.

 

[Spacey_G]

whateg01 - I'm surprised to hear that. Their blem tools are supposed to be 100% functional/accurate with only cosmetic issues.

I bought 18" and 24" blem combo square blades and the markings line up with a known good reference rule. With those blades some of the markings were not filled in, so I filled them with a paint pen.

 

[whateg01]

whateg01 - I'm surprised to hear that. Their blem tools are supposed to be 100% functional/accurate with only cosmetic issues.

I bought 18" and 24" blem combo square blades and the markings line up with a known good reference rule. With those blades some of the markings were not filled in, so I filled them with a paint pen.

HE may be better than other places that sell blems. I was certainly surprised, and a little miffed, by it.

 

[ForrestT]

Johnson is what I have and use. Menards carries them.


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[Deadsquiggles]

I have a couple Swansons 6” speed squares, a HF speed square and 6” combination square, and an Empire 12” combination square. No issues with any of them, although I’ve come to prefer Empire since they’re at least assembled in the USA.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

I have Mititoyo 6" in my apron. I used an IGaging before I found the MIT. Quality is so sweet. It's the size I use mostly. For rough carpentry or fitting for welding I use what is now a 12" Stanley Max. It had been their Handyman line, (2nd). Aluminum heads aren't top of the line, in fact I have an Empire where they filled it with plastic.

I have couple of machinists sets, they both have satin chrome rules. Older steel rules are harder to make out.

 

[DIY_Guy79]

I just bought a Swanson 6" today from Lowes. Its lacking in the fit/finish department, some edges are a bit sharp and could use a bit of filing. But it feels like a good quality tool and is dead on square and the ruler is dead on as well next to my Starrett 12". It was only like $10.

After reading reviews, some people got some that werent square, I'd suggest checking your's against something that is square in store. Or take a precision square with you if you have one. Empire squares look nice as well.

If you're wanting something Higher quality, there is a brand on Amazon called "Igaging" that as far as I can tell uses cast iron for the head and hardened steel for the blade, same as Starrett. They come in around $32 for the 6". The cheap ones like the swanson are a softer material that likely wont last a lifetime... at least not in terms of accuracy. Honestly though, I dont like the name of a precision measuring tool sounding like China & Apple collaborated on it lol.. "Igaging" is pretty gag worthy.

Also, word of advice, you can adjust combo squares by lightly filing the pads in the groove that the blade rides against if its not perfectly square. Look up vids on youtube.

 

[cjarvis]

I was looking at the Igaging square and noticed that it's cast iron/stainless.

Wonder if it's pronounced "I Gagging"?

 

[DIY_Guy79]

I was looking at the Igaging square and noticed that it's cast iron/stainless.

Wonder if it's pronounced "I Gagging"?

Lmao may as well be.

 

[Davefr]

Another consideration is if you use high end machinist grade tools for woodworking then you really need to take extra good care of them. Hardened steel is a magnet for rust and wood usually has a >>0% moisture content.

Tools like Starrett really need to be cleaned and lightly oiled after each use. They will form surface rust just from exposure to humidity.

 

[Spacey_G]

Tools like Starrett really need to be cleaned and lightly oiled after each use. They will form surface rust just from exposure to humidity.

While they will rust if neglected, they don't need to be recoated after every use. I put a coat of paste wax on my Starrett squares every few months and never have problems with rust. My shop is not especially dry either.

 

[BigMike782]

I bought one of these and really like it,
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01E0J7496/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[cjarvis]

I went ahead and ordered the Igaging square. I'll look it over and report back.

I keep an oily wiping rag in the tool box. My workshop has enough humidity that I bought a dehumidifier.

 

[logical]

I got this one in a big lot of NOS Craftsman stuff I bought cheap years ago from the surviving relative of a Craftsman hoarder. Probably 1950's vintage? I couldn't bring myself to use it and it (and most of the other stuff) ended up being worth a whole lot more to other people on ebay than it was to me so I sold it. I originally planned to display it but ran out of places to do so. This isn't meant as a taunt...but a suggestion to seek out older stuff on ebay.

 

[macgee]

The problem with recommendation to buy older combo square like a Starrett, Luftkin, Miller Falls, Craftsman, Brown & Sharpe......etc

Whether its used or barely new old stock, that blade will not be that legible and a pain to read compared to the new statin finish blades like the PEC blems, especially if you try to clean it up after being used, oxidized or rusty. I have zero issues with buying a vintage Starrett "hardened" head square, its amazing how well they stay square after so many years and abuse; they're very good but get rid of the blade. Whats the point of using a square that's hard to read? It will only be good for bragging.

A square is your reference in your shop, don't mess with a used one.

 

[logical]

The problem with recommendation to buy older combo square like a Starrett, Luftkin, Miller Falls, Craftsman, Brown & Sharpe......etc

Whether its used or barely new old stock, that blade will not be that legible and a pain to read compared to the new statin finish blades like the PEC blems, especially if you try to clean it up after being used, oxidized or rusty. I have zero issues with buying a vintage Starrett "hardened" head square, its amazing how well they stay square after so many years and abuse; they're very good but get rid of the blade. Whats the point of using a square that's hard to read? It will only be good for bragging.

A square is your reference in your shop, don't mess with a used one.

I could see that as a potential issue but obviouly the Craftsman above is crisp as can be and my old Sterrett must have had an easy life.

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[macgee]

Yes, that's a Starrett, you can tell by the super cool number engraving; amazing quality. That looks like the more recent version with a more satin finish than what most people find used.

I would be tickled pink if I found that blade above in that condition used at flea market prices but if not the new PEC statin finish blems is the better way to go as a daily user on an older Starrett quality type head unless of course you're willing to pay Starrett prices for a new one.

 

[Spacey_G]

I have a vintage Starrett that belonged to my grandfather. Still square but yes, the rule is not legible/usable. I use that head with the satin chrome PEC 18" and 24" rules I bought as blems. Very handy for laying out panels.