Combination Squares

[Downwindtracker 2]

If buying a used square , don't shy away from the cast iron heads, they were the standard until Stanley found out they could get away with selling ones with aluminum heads. I have 4 Stanley 12" squares with the same model #, all with the letter H starting. That stands for Handyman. Two are cast iron and two are aluminum . The high end Stanleys had two bubbles, not the one, which was almost always out.

 

[Lwel9226]

Today I just bought a used, hardened head Lufkin combo square with a 12" hardened 4-R blade at an estate sale for $3 dollars..... Deals are out there... You just have to find them...

LynnW

 

[dscheidt]

The problem with recommendation to buy older combo square like a Starrett, Luftkin, Miller Falls, Craftsman, Brown & Sharpe......etc

Whether its used or barely new old stock, that blade will not be that legible and a pain to read compared to the new statin finish blades like the PEC blems, especially if you try to clean it up after being used, oxidized or rusty. I have zero issues with buying a vintage Starrett "hardened" head square, its amazing how well they stay square after so many years and abuse; they're very good but get rid of the blade. Whats the point of using a square that's hard to read? It will only be good for bragging.

A square is your reference in your shop, don't mess with a used one.

Depending on the work you're doing, you may not need to read the blade. For the wood working I do, I use the square to check square, to transfer lines around a corner, to guide a knife, and to transfer the dimension of something. I basically never use the rule to measure something.

There are plenty of uses where you are using it as a ruler, of course, and the modern blades are vastly easier to read.

 

[exmaxima1]

Whether its used or barely new old stock, that blade will not be that legible and a pain to read compared to the new statin finish blades like the PEC blems, especially if you try to clean it up after being used, oxidized or rusty. ........

+1
You are exactly right. I used my dad's old Brown & Sharp for many years while my friends invested in new Mitu or PEC, and I regret it. A few years ago I sold the B&S and bought a satin PEC, and wish I did it decades ago---I can see again!

 

[macgee]

I will say there's no replacement for an inherited square in your shop. Nothing is cooler than using/saving your grandfathers or dad's square. There's very good reasons why people ask how to restore an old combination square as they're not replaceable.

But as exaxima1 said, with a new blade you can see again!

Here's an example of Starrett blade that I was in the middle of salvaging but still not ideal when all said and done.

 

[exmaxima1]

Here's an example of Starrett blade that I was in the middle of salvaging but still not ideal when all said and done.

Mine was like the "good" portion of your blade, but I still had a hard time seeing it due to the lack of contrast. I was always holding it up and moving it in the light to try to make out the lines. With satin finish I can practically see it in the dark.

BTW, the Craftsman squares from about 10-20 years ago were pretty nice, USA-made, with stainless blades and etched markings (not stamped). While not as smooth as true machinist squares, they are ideal for woodworking where they may get dropped or covered in glue.

 

[cjarvis]

Both the PEC 12" square and the Igaging 6" square arrived today.

The PEC only has one minor defect in the cast head that I can find and it would have absolutely no effect on it's utility. I checked it with my largest (6") machinist square and it is Spot.***.On. Not able to see any daylight between the blades of the squares.

I checked the Igaging square with a 4" machinist square. I could see a sliver of light between the blades at the head, but I wasn't able to slip a .0015" feeler gauge into the gap.


Both squares came with a center finder and neither of them were a perfect 90°, but they're plenty close enough for what I intend to do with them.

As far as I'm concerned, I have two winners.

If I were to lodge any complaint at all about the PEC square, it would be that the bubble in the level is fairly small. I prefer that the bubble fills the space between the two graduation marks. This one only fills about 1/2 of that space. That said, it will have no effect on how I intend to use the square.

 

[propmaker]

I bought a vintage lufkin square from flebay for that price range. Far better tool than I can buy new for that much.... Plus it came with a center finder and protractor. Might be worth waiting to find a deal on a lesser name. Craftsman also comes to mind

But if new, maybe the US made Empire stuff?? But it sounds like you should check the squareness of those before you leave the store. This cheap, you could buy one for every flat surface in the shop and never have to look for it.

https://toolguyd.com/empire-combination-square-gift-guide-2020/

I love collecting the old Lufkin Combo squares. The quality is is as good as Starrett or brown and sharpe. The satin finish on starrett is easier on the eye though

 

[macgee]

Both the PEC 12" square and the Igaging 6" square arrived today.


As far as I'm concerned, I have two winners.

Awesome, glad it worked out.



PS> I don't think any Starrett square that I've checked ever had a perfectly balanced level in them when reverse checking, they're set/held in place with plaster of Paris.
Starrett machinist levels, now they're amazing but that's for another thread.

 

[propmaker]

The problem with recommendation to buy older combo square like a Starrett, Luftkin, Miller Falls, Craftsman, Brown & Sharpe......etc

Whether its used or barely new old stock, that blade will not be that legible and a pain to read compared to the new statin finish blades like the PEC blems, especially if you try to clean it up after being used, oxidized or rusty. I have zero issues with buying a vintage Starrett "hardened" head square, its amazing how well they stay square after so many years and abuse; they're very good but get rid of the blade. Whats the point of using a square that's hard to read? It will only be good for bragging.

A square is your reference in your shop, don't mess with a used one.

Ha Ha agreed, on some of the stages I work on the lighting is terrible. The other day I was setting my combo square with my tape measure. the Satin finish is so much easier on the eyes.

 

[macgee]

Ha Ha agreed, on some of the stages I work on the lighting is terrible. The other day I was setting my combo square with my tape measure. the Satin finish is so much easier on the eyes.

I may have some random green Lufkin pieces for you if you want? I don't need them, I think you're close by.

 

[davethorik]

The problem with recommendation to buy older combo square like a Starrett, Luftkin, Miller Falls, Craftsman, Brown & Sharpe......etc

Whether its used or barely new old stock, that blade will not be that legible and a pain to read compared to the new statin finish blades like the PEC blems, especially if you try to clean it up after being used, oxidized or rusty. I have zero issues with buying a vintage Starrett "hardened" head square, its amazing how well they stay square after so many years and abuse; they're very good but get rid of the blade. Whats the point of using a square that's hard to read? It will only be good for bragging.

A square is your reference in your shop, don't mess with a used one.

At least Starrett and Lufkin have been offering plain and satin chrome rules since the 50s, maybe earlier. I prefer Lufkin's chrome but Starrett is not bad. My Pratt & Whitney 24" combo blade is satin chrome.

 

[davethorik]

I love vintage stuff BUT i have a blem PEC 4" double square that i got new for something silly like $14. There was a marking on the blade that looked to be gently pencil ground off. I ran a fine stone over it, no burrs. Slides nice and yeah the chrome is brighter than old stuff, even nos stuff with no wear. Mine responded well to a bit of stone work and it's flat and square. Highly recommend, would buy again.

 

[propmaker]

I may have some random green Lufkin pieces for you if you want? I don't need them, I think you're close by.

I'd be interested please send a pic.

 

[propmaker]

My Pratt & Whitney 24" combo blade is satin chrome.

I have a 12" Pratt & Whitney, its identical to Lufkin as I believe it was made on their old machines after Lufkin sold all their precision tool making equipment to Pratt & whitney

 

[davethorik]

I have a 12" Pratt & Whitney, its identical to Lufkin as I believe it was made on their old machines after Lufkin sold all their precision tool making equipment to Pratt & whitney

Yes indeed, i have a few P&W machinist tools. They are all identical to Lufkin. The machinist tools sold to p&w, i dont think they made them very long. And the tapes, folding rules, etc and the name got picked up by cooper.

 

[HenryAZ]

Depending on the work you're doing, you may not need to read the blade. For the wood working I do, I use the square to check square, to transfer lines around a corner, to guide a knife, and to transfer the dimension of something. I basically never use the rule to measure something.

There are plenty of uses where you are using it as a ruler, of course, and the modern blades are vastly easier to read.

I use a ruler to set the square, rather than setting to the markings on the blade. Over time and lots of setting combo squares, I have found this method to be easier to read and more accurate. Plus you can set it to a measurement in inches or millimeters with any square.

 

[Renegade1LI]

Here's an old cm, cast heads and the markings are clear as day, looks like it might have been made by starrett comparing it.

 

[cjarvis]

Found one more nit to pick on the iGaging square that I forgot to check: The ends of the rule weren't perpendicular to the sides. One end was just barely out of square, the other one was about 1/64" out. Fortunately, both ends erred to the long side, so I was able to correct it easily on my disc sander. Took me maybe 5 min. including setup of the shelf and miter gauge.

 

[macgee]

Here's an old cm, cast heads and the markings are clear as day, looks like it might have been made by starrett comparing it.

Thats possible, I do have a Craftsman Industrial punch set that were made by Starrett.

 

[lardy1]

How about a PEC blem from Harry Epstein for $24:

https://www.harryepstein.com/12-2-p...MjMMO1mkYdeUplfIof7bX-GTMW9x0ZaxoCkgwQAvD_BwE

Well.......another GJ recommendation that I couldn't refuse. I've been wanting a newer/better than the cheap one I'm using. Thanks. No......really.......thank you.

 

[cjarvis]

Well.......another GJ recommendation that I couldn't refuse. I've been wanting a newer/better than the cheap one I'm using. Thanks. No......really.......thank you.

Yeah, this place is horrible about that...

 

[seber]

I have several woodworking squares from my carpentry days. They all work fine until I get to the table saw. At that point I break out the Starrett. Setting the blade to vertical is not a job for a cheap square. The alternative would be a fixed type square.

 

[lardy1]

The PEC arrived from Epstein today. Thanks again. This is a huge upgrade over the thing I've been using. I don't need anything better than this for my woodworking. Thirty bucks well spent.

 

[antman213]

not sure if it was mentioned but I recently got a LASquare for christmas.
Very nice with the wide flange. Very good quality but pricey

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01E0J7496/?tag=atomicindus08-20