Combination wrench set help needed...

[crescent1]

Hi guys!

So I hesitated long enough to pick up a quality combination wrench set(metric and SAE). I need the sets to work in tight spaces. You are most welcome to share your wisdom and experience. I don't have an exact budget set for this purchase, but I can appreciate a deal if I can get one

 

[AmishFury]

what do you mean by tight spaces and what kind of ballpark budget are we talking...

before someone comes along and tells you to spend over $1K for snap-on just because snap-on

 

[crescent1]

Let's keep it under a thousand for both sets. Tight spaces meaning no space for ratcheting tools, but I'm not dismissing the idea of a combination sets with a ratcheting end and I have no need for XL wrenches

 

[Davefr]

I would normally recommend Wright because I feel they're better then SO at a fraction of the price. However if your first priority is tight spaces I'd probably go with SO because they're quite thin and don't have the wide hips like SK.

Maybe you can save some $'s buying the Williams equivalent. (but I'm not sure they're 100% identical).

(Ex: the second wrench down is SO. Just a little more compact - like your wallet will be after you buy them).

 

[winlinmac]

Are you a professional who relies on his / her tools in everyday tasks? Or just an avid DIY'er?

Hi guys!

So I hesitated long enough to pick up a quality combination wrench set(metric and SAE). I need the sets to work in tight spaces. You are most welcome to share your wisdom and experience. I don't have an exact budget set for this purchase, but I can appreciate a deal if I can get one

 

[stihlntime]

Stahlwille is probably one of if not the strongest. Wright or SK are also good. I don't care for SO they are too thin and bite in my xxxl hands.

 

[decaf]

Buy something from Germany.
Hazet, Stahlwille, Gedore, Heyco...etc....
Don't cut corners when it comes to combination wrenches.

 

[shoggoth80]

If in tight spaces, with limited swing arcs, I would say 12pt for ease of use. 6pt combos are great when you have to really ream on something, but using the box end is not as easy when things get cramped.

I'll toss in a vote for Proto. While they aren't the thinnest of my work wrenches (those are narrow open enders, a Japanese brand, can't remember which), they certainly are tough.

My home wrenches are Armstrong (but all box ends are 6pt), and some cheap HF ones.

 

[AmishFury]

Maybe you can save some $'s buying the Williams equivalent. (but I'm not sure they're 100% identical).

william usa (supercombo) is the same length but a much thicker beam... i'll post up a pic when i get a chance

 

[Adam.C]

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4884870&postcount=58

Can you define "tight spaces"?

Not to be argumentative, but the German wrench superiority is myth. German wrenches are stronger because they are stouter. All the good wrench companies seem to have mastered steel and heat treatment. And all are stronger than they need to be which makes the strength differences pretty much irrelevant.

The different companies do offer real alternatives. The German wrenches can be desirable, but not for the reasons stated in the poorly conceived German magazine article. Snap on wrenches are great to be sure. But if they aren't comfortable in your hands, they are worthless. So you need to think about ergonomics. And there's no consensus here regarding ergonomics.

Start with my post and we can go from there. Probably need to think about high performance style wrenches.

Read the link above.

 

[1950mercury]

Do you want a standard open end or a flank drive plus type...combo's

If a standard open end, Armstrong makes a real nice wrench that can be picked up cheap on eBay.

If you want a fd+ open end, snap on,proto or wright

 

[John in OH]

You'll get as many different opinions on the best combo wrench set as there are manufactures and members of GJ. Since I don't know what you mean by "tight spaces" I can't very well factor that into my opinion so you'll have to make your own judgement there based on the products available.

First, IMHO, if you aren't a professional mechanic and don't need financing or weekly personal service, then there is sure no need to pay for it .... so let's ignore the truck brands (such as SnapOn, Matco, Cornwell, Mac, etc.) All may be good tools but over-priced for the casual mechanic.

Good, reasonably priced combos are Wright, Proto, Armstrong, SK and Williams. My personal favorite, and arguably the best combo wench on today's market, is the WrightGrip in either satin or full polish finish.

 

[babylou]

Stahlwille is probably one of if not the strongest. Wright or SK are also good. I don't care for SO they are too thin and bite in my xxxl hands.

I'd like to see test results please. The two magazine tests published in threads on this site and the 13mm wrench test done by a member here did not prove this to be true.

 

[babylou]

Buy something from Germany.
Hazet, Stahlwille, Gedore, Heyco...etc....
Don't cut corners when it comes to combination wrenches.

Why? this question is coming from someone who just bought two sets of Hazet's.

 

[Adam.C]

You'll get as many different opinions on the best combo wrench set as there are manufactures and members of GJ.

True. But that doesn't mean we're simply opinionated or that wrenches are simply a matter of opinion. Ergonomics aside, different wrenches really do function differently. For example- Snap On's flank drive plus open ends are great at removing stuck hardware. The wrench has hardened teeth that literally bite into the softer steel of the fastener.

German wrenches like Hazet attempt to achieve the same result differently.They use a tight toleranced opening and a thicker jaw to reduce the stress that can result in smearing or rounding a hex head. These, like some Koken sockets, might be the right choice for machine repair, or kit car building where surface finishes of the hardware need to be preserved. That's best done by making intimate contact, spreading out the load as much as possible across the hex head fastener.

Wright Grip kinda splits the difference. They have teeth like Snap On, but they are only machined into one jaw. This means these open ends only work their Wright Grip magic in one direction. This also means, if you are installing painted screws for example, you can turn the wrench the other way and not engage the teeth (and not damage the fastener's finish).

(Obviously you can use the teeth to tighten or loosen, but you need to flip the wrench over to do it. This can come at the expense of access. Most open ends are designed so that you can turn the screw in a limited space by flipping the wrench over. That's why the jaws are not inline with the handle.

Wrenches are complicated. That's why there are so many different opinions.

 

[OutsideMachinist]

Depends on a lot of variables as others have mentioned. Most of the ones I use are blackhawk,proto, sk, usa craftsman. All very good. Do you want the new style open ends? What length do you want? etc. Some get into tight spaces easier even if only slight differences.

For instance SK wrenches tend to be wider broached at the beam/boxed end and are a bit thicker, my protos fit places the sks wont. Sk still makes great products and wrenches however. Some are naturally a bit longer than others as well.

What sizes do you need? What will you be working on? Doesn't make much sense for me to drop 500 bucks on a wrench set that goes to only 3/4''. That is one of the smallest sizes I deal with personally.

 

[raiderhillbilly]

I dont like the teeth on wrenches. If i wanted to bite into the fastener, I would use a pipe wrench. I prefer a tight tolerance. I really like the few black oxide finished wrenches that i have picked up. They happen to be older Armstrongs. Chrome can actually cause a wrench to slip on a fastener. My favorite shape is the SK-made Craftsman-branded long pattern raised panel combos.

 

[John in OH]

......

Wright Grip kinda splits the difference. They have teeth like Snap On, but they are only machined into one jaw. This means these open ends only work their Wright Grip magic in one direction. This also means, if you are installing painted screws for example, you can turn the wrench the other way and not engage the teeth (and not damage the fastener's finish).

(Obviously you can use the teeth to tighten or loosen, but you need to flip the wrench over to do it. This can come at the expense of access. Most open ends are designed so that you can turn the screw in a limited space by flipping the wrench over. That's why the jaws are not inline with the handle.

Wrenches are complicated. That's why there are so many different opinions.

Adam, not sure why you are saying the WrightGrips have teeth on only one side. Mine have teeth on both sides of the open end jaws.

 

[AmishFury]

as promised earlier couple comparison shots of snap-on fd+ and williams supercombo

length is the same... the williams open end is basically the FD+ without the extra grooves making the teeth

beam thickness is significantly different... williams is the thick one

 

[Adam.C]

Adam, not sure why you are saying the WrightGrips have teeth on only one side. Mine have teeth on both sides of the open end jaws.

Cool. Looks like you have a new version. Perhaps these are the older models?

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=537990&postcount=1

 

[MDK22]

I would have to say if you are going to get a professional set unfortunately that you should go with SO FD+ Longs. I hate even saying it but, it is the truth. I must have spent a good 6 months looking brands up getting dimensions from people etc. Why because I simply did not want to buy SO. Eventually in the end I got SO.

There is reasons why I am saying this. One is Wright Grip the teeth are further back, shallower, and are not as hard. Two the Proto ASD does not have teeth it is in fact the same/similar design as Gear Wrench. I have Gear Wrench Plain combos that antislip has helped me once and slipped at least 20-30 times in like 500 uses. So unfortunately those designs were inferrior.

I bought a full set of long GearWrench and then SO FD+ Long and the reason why is because the SO FD+ Long sets do not include from 9 down in a set and the 19 and up set is very pricey. Doing it this way seems to work out nicely but, still I will more then likely end up finishing out my set.

I really dislike SO and the reason why is I pay to much just for that name. Sometimes though they just have the superior design. Also if you already have a decent set of standard lengths you can use them when you need to get in tight spots.

 

[MDK22]

If you are looking for just a good all around set for a regular DIY guy I would say Gearwrench. They hold up ok. They are better then the box store stuff. They are not quite professional grade but, are what I recommend to people who are just starting out as a professional if they are looking to go cheap for whatever reason.

If you go with professional stuff it costs a lot of money I have been paying off my SO FD+ Longs for about 3/4 of a year now and I am about done with that part of my SO balance.

Here is Gearwrench:
$$229.99 GearWrench 81919 44-Piece Long Pattern Non-Ratcheting Combination Wrench Set SAE/Metric(1/4" - 1 1/2") (6mm-32mm)

Here is SO FD+:

Long
$540.75 Set, Wrench, Metric, Combination, Long, FLANK DRIVE® PLUS, 12-Point (10 pcs.) (10 to 19 mm)
$359.50 Set, Wrench, Inches, Combination, Long, FLANK DRIVE® PLUS, 12-Point (7pcs) (3/8 to 3/4")

Standard Length
$341.45 Set, Wrench, Combination, FLANK DRIVE® PLUS, 12-Point (10 pcs.) (5/16" to 7/8")
$366.75 Set, Wrench, Metric, Combination, FLANK DRIVE® PLUS, 12-Point (10 pcs.) (10 to 19 mm)

Larger Sizes
$340.75 Set, Wrench, Combination, FLANK DRIVE® PLUS, 12-Point (4 pcs.) (15/16" to 1 1/8")
$361.00 Set, Wrench, Combination, FLANK DRIVE® PLUS, 12-Point (3 pcs.) (1 3/16" to 1 5/16")
Set, Wrench, Metric, Combination, FLANK DRIVE® PLUS, 12-Point (5 pcs.) (20 to 24 mm)

 

[retDAC]

Adam, not sure why you are saying the WrightGrips have teeth on only one side. Mine have teeth on both sides of the open end jaws.

A few years back when I was looking for wrenches, all the pix I could find indicated the WrightGrips only had teeth on one side.

 

[Adam.C]

A few years back when I was looking for wrenches, all the pix I could find indicated the WrightGrips only had teeth on one side.

I'm not sure if the change is an improvement or not. I could see how some mechanics wouldn't understand how to use a wrench that only had teeth on one side. but maybe the earlier design was better. There are certainly times when I don't want to use a FD+ wrench because it will cut into the finish on the part I'm turning.

 

[Adam.C]

I would have to say if you are going to get a professional set unfortunately that you should go with SO FD+ Longs.

Weird that this recommendation requires an apology of sorts. These are magnificent wrenches by every logical measurable standard.

 

[Dynasty]

I don't mean to hijack your thread, OP. I figure this would be an appropriate place to post this.

Out of these options, which combo wrenches would be the best choice in terms of price/performance stand point?

Usage: DIY/home use will include basic maintenance to cars, motorcycles, lawn care equipment, household tasks, assembly of various items from department/furniture stores.

1. Tekton long pattern, full polish (Taiwan) - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OZJN3PQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

2. Gearwrench long pattern, full polish (Taiwan) - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00H2W7LVK/?tag=atomicindus08-20

3. NOS Craftsman (USA) - Ebay

4. JH Williams full polish (USA) - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001DO16QY/?tag=atomicindus08-20

5. JH Willaims satin finish (Taiwan) - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001DO2U2S/?tag=atomicindus08-20

6. Wright Tool full polish (USA) - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002M3ZEUY/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[mikebramel]

I have had Craftsman (Junk), Toptul (Good), Harbor Freight (Junk), Gearwrench (Decent), then bought the Snap On XL FD+. Amazing wrenches. You won't be sorry. Then noticed local store, Neu's Hardware stocked Wright tools. Bought a set of the satin finish wrenches. Realized how much I HATE the finish on the "jewelry" (always slipping out of the hands). Would now consider selling the Snap On's as I hate the thin beam (which for an auto mechanic can be a big advantage)

 

[John in OH]

Weird that this recommendation requires an apology of sorts. These are magnificent wrenches by every logical measurable standard.

At the risk of beating a dead horse ……

I totally agree, SO makes excellent tools. I may be inferring too much in what MDK22 is saying, but, IMHO, I suspect that he is disinclined to buy SO due to the cost/benefit issue.

We all well know that a set of SO wrenches (and probably most other truck brands) is 2x-3x the cost of other professional non-truck wrenches (Wright, Proto, Armstrong, SK, Williams). This higher SO price is easily justified by a professional mechanic because the price includes: a) an excellent tool; b) dealer financing; c) easy solid warranty; d) face-to-face weekly service; e) extensive line of automotive specialty tools. All of which a pro-mechanic may need.

However, for the average good ol’ boy shade-tree mechanic who doesn’t need dealer financing, or an easy warranty, or face-to-face weekly service, or a broad range of specialty tools, the added cost of these features is really tough, or impossible, to justify. That’s why I don’t buy SO. The SO tools are good, but TO ME they aren’t 2x-3x times better than the professional non-truck tools.

This reasoning is also why you will seldom see SO tools in industrial applications. I retired from the power generation industry where reliable, excellent, tools are critical, but in our numerous coal-fired plants I don’t recall ever seeing an SO tool. We didn’t need dealer financing, easy warranty, face-to-face service or specialty auto tools. The toolrooms were populated with Wright, Proto, Armstrong and Williams.

I don't mean to hijack your thread, OP. I figure this would be an appropriate place to post this.

6. Wright Tool full polish (USA) - http://www.amazon.com/Wright-Tool-9.../B002M3ZEUY/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top? ie=UTF8

Personally, I'd go with the Wright set, but in satin finish as recommended by Mike below (make sure the set you buy is WrightGrip):

I have had Craftsman (Junk), Toptul (Good), Harbor Freight (Junk), Gearwrench (Decent), then bought the Snap On XL FD+. Amazing wrenches. You won't be sorry. Then noticed local store, Neu's Hardware stocked Wright tools. Bought a set of the satin finish wrenches. Realized how much I HATE the finish on the "jewelry" (always slipping out of the hands). Would now consider selling the Snap On's as I hate the thin beam (which for an auto mechanic can be a big advantage)

 

[inline five]

I have done everything on my cars from replacing air filters to pulling an engine or dropping the subframe and swapping the transmission.

I can honestly count on ONE HAND how many times I've used a wrench open end.

95% of the time I'm using a wrench it's to back up a nut when using an impact on the other side.

Just trying to keep things in perspective. I got the Craftsman Industrial when they all got cleared out and have been very happy with them for under $120 total for SAE/Metric sets. Spending $1k on a set of wrenches? Really?

 

[fatfillup]

I don't wrench full time, but have used Cman pros for years and really like them. I believe they were made by SK. You would have to buy used but if you can find them, they would be a great less costly choice.

I like them so much that I got a set recently in metric at a sale and couldn't put a price tag on them to sell. They went into my box at home. An trust me, that doesn't happen very often

 

[sberry]

Good thread, I got no opinion that isn't for entry level people but a comment to fillup.
I spose someone knows but I have a couple of those SK era wrenches. I should try to strip them from general circulation and keep them with specialty, they have a very fine box. They were well suited to small engine work.

 

[AmishFury]

1. Tekton long pattern, full polish (Taiwan) - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OZJN3PQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

2. Gearwrench long pattern, full polish (Taiwan) - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00H2W7LVK/?tag=atomicindus08-20

i'd be hesitant to actually call them long pattern... compared to craftsman rp or HF kinda... compared to snapon, williams, wright, etc not quite

here is a pic of performax (same as HF), tekton (the gearwrench are really close in length to the tekton), williams, and snapon

4. JH Williams full polish (USA) - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001DO16QY/?tag=atomicindus08-20

5. JH Willaims satin finish (Taiwan) - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001DO2U2S/?tag=atomicindus08-20

tools delivered has much better pricing on the williams sets... after shipping the MWS-15A plus the 22mm and 24mm singles come out a tad cheaper than amazon for just the MWS-15A set

 

[Adam.C]

I may be inferring too much in what MDK22 is saying, but, IMHO, I suspect that he is disinclined to buy SO due to the cost/benefit issue.

I have done everything on my cars from replacing air filters to pulling an engine or dropping the subframe and swapping the transmission. I can honestly count on ONE HAND how many times I've used a wrench open end.

I agree with both sentiments here. In my recommendations for new mechanics, I left combination wrenches off the list. Yes, there are times when they are absolutely essential. But in those times, do you really need a $50 wrench? Or worse a set of 10 $50 wrenches? For the few times I use open ends, I can almost get away with a Knipex plier wrench.

That said:
1) Open ends ARE needed for some jobs,
2) FD+ ends are so effective and easy to use, I would think people who have them would tend to use them more than they might use another brand. I do. They can help when clearance is a problem.
3) The long pattern FD+ are absolute beauties (I don't have them). If money was no object, these are hands down the wrenches to buy.

If you are looking for the best, I would get the long snappies. If you just can't justify the price, go for Armstrongs, which have a similar size and shape. If you love the FD+ open ends but can't justify the Snap On price, go Wright Grip. I personally can't see paying decent or even little money for the other brands that aren't long, aren't thin, and don't have special open ends.

 

[HanShotFirst]

If you are not a full time professional mechanic, I would NEVER recommend buying NEW tool truck brands. Used at a good price, absolutely. But unless a truck occasionally drops by your work, it's just not worth it. The price doesn't reflect the tool, but the too AND the service. You're much better off buying a much less expensive set of wrenches. And the Williams or WrightGrip are the ones I'd be looking at. Also I like the Proto's, they have been very good for me.

My absolute favorite wrenches at home are my SK's, but until SK updates their wrenches to keep up with the rest of the world, I wouldn't buy them (even though my 25 year old SK's are still my favorites); there are just better wrenches out there for the money.

 

[Adam.C]

+1 Buy new Snap On only when you feel the warranty will be valuable and only on sale. I don't see myself ever warrantying a wrench. So I'm disinclined to buy new.

The people who pay full retail for Snap On are the people here who say "buy tools as and when you need them". This can be terrible advise. It ensures you will pay too much for your second choice because, well, you need it. Buy tools before you need them. That way you can shop for the best deal, best quality etc.

 

[Sam'sAutoParts]

Buy a few single wrenches from brands in your price range and try them out. You may find you like the feel of one over another, or discover that one will fit in place the others won't etc.

For example: I really like the SK wrenches, mostly because how they feel in my hands. Does snap on make a better wrench? Yes! But I don't like the thin beam, they feel odd in my hand.

brands I would suggest trying: SK, Proto, Wright, Williams.

If you are a pro consider Snap on, and Cornwell

 

[Empty Pockets]

I have had really good luck with Wright. In the mid 70's I purchased 2 wrench sets ( SAE and Metric), as well as a 1/2 inch drive SAE set.

The price is far less than Snap On, and in every case in my experience, they have preformed as well or better than Snap On.

 

[ssdave]

As said before by several, once you get up into the top quality, preferences make the decision. I have Proto, Snap-on and SK metric sets in standard automotive sizes.

I'm working on replacing a 3.0 duratec motor in a ford, just went out and looked at the tools laid out on the table alongside the car that were used on that job. 5 wrenches there, 4 of them were Snap-on OEX, one was a Proto. That about sums up my preferences.

For tight clearance work, I have the Snap-on OX1, and the slightly bigger OXA. They're expensive, but nice. Would I recommend buying them? Depends. How old are you (how long left to use them) and how much work do you do? If you do a lot of work and have a lot of years to live, they're a good investment. Or, if you're a professional, the service and quality might make it worthwhile. for a DIY guy, I'd look for cheaper ones unless I found them used for a good price.

I'm getting older, and have used my tools for a long time. I don't even remember how much they cost to get, many I got cheap and some I paid retail. But, I sure remember how well they've worked and how much I like them. I don't recall any of them I wish I had bought cheaper ones. I've never used an expensive tool for the first time and thought "wish I had gone to HF instead"!

 

[MDK22]

Weird that this recommendation requires an apology of sorts. These are magnificent wrenches by every logical measurable standard.

Its unfortunate because SO wrenches flex when you put a large amount of leverage on them making clearences a pain in the ****. You have to really really be putting some muscle into it but, they do that. The other reason is the price. They should not cost that much.

 

[Wamsutta]

Snap-on long combination. 3/8'' to 1'' and 10mm to 19mm. Done