Combined shop and garage thoughts?

[Brian_P]

I’ve been lurking here for 7 years or so, and the garage gallery is one of my favorite places on the internet. That said, despite searching, I really haven’t found a lot of thoughts on how to combine parking and working shop space in a relatively architecturally pleasing detached structure that doesn’t sprawl over a huge rectangular footprint. Seems like a lot of folks doing amazing things in tiny multipurpose spaces, and a lot of folks working in large polebarns or shops while keeping a separate garage for dailies.

Specifically - I am putting an offer on a home with no garage, with a couple of acres but limited flat space to build on. I’m trying to figure out how to combine parking for two daily drivers (assume 10-12’x24’ bays?), two classic cars (guessing another bay +/- a lift, perhaps tandem behind a parking bay), and wrenching space for heavier work (have previously had a 30’x30’ shop, and 15-20’x30’ per shop bay seems about right). Could probably live with a single large bay if there was another area for machine tools/welding/etc. I hate getting overspray or grinding dust on done cars, so one open space seems undesirable. Not sure if anyone has experimented with movable partitions?

A pole barn is not an option - it just isn’t a part of the country where that would work from an architecture/resale perspective. I’m not aware of any/many architects who think deeply about functional shop design, and curious if anyone here has thought through the question already and built or designed an attractive (wife-approved) solution to the question? I’m lucky enough to be older than I used to be, and might be able to swing the cost of a nicer structure than early in my career.

Don’t sweat specific form factor or architectural style, just curious how others have integrated parking and workspace.

Photo of my last shop a year or two ago:

 

[larry_g]

My solution to a similar problem is in my shop build below. I divided the shop into a clean and dirty area. My clean area is the machine shop and has a room above for storage and the wife's hobby uses. You definatly get into the fab work looking at you picture of the old shop so that work has no place in an area where clean storage of cars is desired. In my mind a divided area is necessary. I wouldn't even consider a movable wall if intended to move more than once a year. I do have a removable section of wall in my shop but haven't opened it but once in 10+ years.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[NUTTSGT]

You're starting from scratch, no reason you build what you want, how you want.

First things first, figure out how big you can actually build. . . AHJ restrictions, well, septic and so on.

Start drawing shapes on paper, use graph paper if it helps you.

 

[finn]

I built my 32x54 garage with a stepped roof height specifically so it doesn’t look like a typical pole barn. It has steel siding, but it’s broken up with three courses of split faced block, wainscoting, and five large windows.

I’m not saying this will work for you, but sit down with a pencil and paper and sketch something up.

I originally intended the 32x24’ area with 13+ foot ceiling to be the shop area, walled off from the 32x30 foot section that has a 10’ ceiling and is reserved for parking.

In the end, I bought an existing shop building located nearby, and just use the building by the house for daily driver and tractor / future project storage.

Keep the parking / storage area separate from the dirty work per your plan. I’m thinking of adding a garage door in my actual shop to wall off the dirty area where I paint and weld. I should be able to get a 16’x16’ roll up or even a sectional door to wall off the grunge.

 

[bad_idea]

Attached garage for parking dailys and finished cars. Detached structure for doing work and project car(s). I have a 30x40x12 I had built 5 years ago. I have been slowly building it out since then. I have a 14x20 room for welding work, an 8x10 room for bathroom, and the remainder is one large space for working on vehicles or large projects.

I wish I had an attached garage, but sadly do not. The dailys are parked in the driveway. I don't care how well the building is sealed, rooms divided, or positive/negative ventilation - you will still get dust migration through the building. I would rather separate work from storage by entire buildings.

 

[Brian_P]

My solution to a similar problem is in my shop build below. I divided the shop into a clean and dirty area. My clean area is the machine shop and has a room above for storage and the wife's hobby uses. You definatly get into the fab work looking at you picture of the old shop so that work has no place in an area where clean storage of cars is desired. In my mind a divided area is necessary. I wouldn't even consider a movable wall if intended to move more than once a year. I do have a removable section of wall in my shop but haven't opened it but once in 10+ years.

lg
no neat sig line

Thanks! Yeah, that looks like an intelligently designed shop, I like it. It would be really nice to only have to clean grinding dust out of one segment of the shop every week...

 

[Brian_P]

You're starting from scratch, no reason you build what you want, how you want.

First things first, figure out how big you can actually build. . . AHJ restrictions, well, septic and so on.

Start drawing shapes on paper, use graph paper if it helps you.

Yeah - that's sort of my thought. I've owned a number of houses and done significant work on them before, so not afraid of designing/building. More wondering if anyone has figured out good ways to make a combined parking/workshop structure that functions well for both tasks. I learned a good bit about what I like and don't like in my last shop, but there are still far more experienced members here!

I love your shop, by the way. Wish an old structure like that was in the cards, but not likely in the area I'm expecting to have to move to.

 

[Brian_P]

I built my 32x54 garage with a stepped roof height specifically so it doesn’t look like a typical pole barn. It has steel siding, but it’s broken up with three courses of split faced block, wainscoting, and five large windows.

I’m not saying this will work for you, but sit down with a pencil and paper and sketch something up.

I originally intended the 32x24’ area with 13+ foot ceiling to be the shop area, walled off from the 32x30 foot section that has a 10’ ceiling and is reserved for parking.

In the end, I bought an existing shop building located nearby, and just use the building by the house for daily driver and tractor / future project storage.

Keep the parking / storage area separate from the dirty work per your plan. I’m thinking of adding a garage door in my actual shop to wall off the dirty area where I paint and weld. I should be able to get a 16’x16’ roll up or even a sectional door to wall off the grunge.

Ah. Yeah, a separate shop building would be amazing, but I definitely can't afford a second piece of property in my area. Maybe another year in another home. A rollup or sectional door makes a lot of sense. Just being able to keep grinding dust and paint overspray limited to one area would be a huge luxury. My last shop was an absolute mess to try to coordinate dirty and clean projects.

 

[Brian_P]

Attached garage for parking dailys and finished cars. Detached structure for doing work and project car(s). I have a 30x40x12 I had built 5 years ago. I have been slowly building it out since then. I have a 14x20 room for welding work, an 8x10 room for bathroom, and the remainder is one large space for working on vehicles or large projects.

I wish I had an attached garage, but sadly do not. The dailys are parked in the driveway. I don't care how well the building is sealed, rooms divided, or positive/negative ventilation - you will still get dust migration through the building. I would rather separate work from storage by entire buildings.

That's probably great advice - unfortunately, I'm guessing on this lot I won't have the ability to fully separate buildings. It's a hillside with limited flat space to work with. Hoping I can figure out a decent way to seal the storage off from the work area, though you're probably right about dust still migrating anyways.

I think the wife would very much like to park her daily inside, so I suspect I need to work it into the plans to get approval!

 

[u2slow]

My 20x38 shop fits two vehicles double deep; offset to one side. Then the remaining 8'x38' has benches and equipment; with a mezzanine above. The outside of the shop is flanked with a 12x38' lean-to down each side.

"Architecturally pleasing" is very subjective. It was also not any sort of bylaw requirement. Its fully clad in metal. FWIW, I colour-matched the house afterwards. Property value has tripled; not too bad for minimal appearance consideration.

 

[YOM1963]

Can you use the hill to your advantage and build 2 stories with parking on one and shop above/below with its own driveway?

 

[Brian_P]

My 20x38 shop fits two vehicles double deep; offset to one side. Then the remaining 8'x38' has benches and equipment; with a mezzanine above. The outside of the shop is flanked with a 12x38' lean-to down each side.

"Architecturally pleasing" is very subjective. It was also not any sort of bylaw requirement. Its fully clad in metal. FWIW, I colour-matched the house afterwards. Property value has tripled; not too bad for minimal appearance consideration.

That sounds like a great shop! I'm not worried about bylaws - I refuse to live in an HOA community. I do want to preserve the attractiveness of the site and resale value of the home, hence thinking about the cosmetics of the thing.

 

[Brian_P]

Can you use the hill to your advantage and build 2 stories with parking on one and shop above/below with its own driveway?

Absolutely would love to do that. I'm originally from New England and bank barns (built on a hill with two ground-level stories) are common and always seemed like a brilliant concept to me. I'm guessing building with precast floors for a second level garage would be horrifyingly expensive, but I don't have any personal experience with them so I could be completely off base.

 

[PoorUB]

I have a 24x38 foot garage and have done total repaints on cars, and restored the tractor in my avatar. I would like larger, but I am too cheap to pay for it! When a big project come along the daily drivers get parked outside. It doesn't happen very often. Usually I run the cars out, make a mess and clean it back up and roll the cars back in.

 

[u2slow]

I'm guessing building with precast floors for a second level garage would be horrifyingly expensive, but I don't have any personal experience with them so I could be completely off base.

Suspended slab is commonly done in commercial settings. They are formed and poured in-place. Concrete, forming, and rebar has its price though.

I do want to preserve the attractiveness of the site and resale value of the home, hence thinking about the cosmetics of the thing.

My shop is really tall, but the downward slope of my lot (to the rear) eats up most of it - none is really seen from the front street. Shop has it own access from a secondary road.

 

[Youngandfree]

Absolutely would love to do that. I'm originally from New England and bank barns (built on a hill with two ground-level stories) are common and always seemed like a brilliant concept to me. I'm guessing building with precast floors for a second level garage would be horrifyingly expensive, but I don't have any personal experience with them so I could be completely off.

2 story garages around here have steel pans for the ceiling of the lower garage with concrete poured on top for the upper slab.

 

[tarmy]

I did it…got boats, a tractor, shop, lots and lots of material storage and a crew cab and car. No problem.

 

[72Anthony]

If staying with a single structure, I also agree with creating clean and dirty areas.

I would build it with no internal colunms for maximum flexibilty.

Then you could build a non load bearing partition wall between the clean and dirty areas. I'd put a roll up and man door to allow access. Since the portion wall isn't load bearing, you could move if your needs change at some point.

The partition wall also has the benefit of providing wall space for cabinets, tool boxes, counter space, and upper cabinets.

You could also rig a up a temporary partition using tarps or heavy plastic to get a feel for the layout.

 

[CraigStu]

We now live in a hilly area. When we were looking at houses I remember a development where one street of about 8 houses had lots sloping down to the rear. I was intrigued because the front opening garage looked normal. Then we went inside and down to the basement. I saw that the concrete garage floor was poured over what looked like corrugated steel roofing. I have no idea of the details but I don't remember there being any huge price differential for those houses. Of course this was probably specced just to park 2 cars but still, it seemed to be a pretty normal thing so something to look into.

 

[PhantomEB]

Not all garages need to be parking garages. Mine is only a 24x26 double.

my girl darn well knows as long I got a double garage and she’s got off street parking, she rarely gets to park in the garage unless it’s necessary. Bronco build stays on the emptier side while most tools are on the other side, I did this as the bronco is not a must do now but when it comes to the dailies, I don’t want to have them apart for any longer than needed, so I am putting all tools on that side, hell even consumables are gonna be close to the workshop side.

garden tools will never see the inside of my shop unless it’s for fixing or maintenance, that’s why she’s got not one but two sheds.

 

[firebirdparts]

If it's about looks then a 2 story shop might help. My shop is way too small to really be a car collection plus restoration space, but it is set up that way. The basement is parking. It's 2 and a half stories because everything has to have a steep roof these days, and the lift extends into the attic on one side. Proportions are conserved in every direction except underground.

 

[u2slow]

^ that was part of my tall shop strategy. Steeper pitch brought the eaves lower, and my bylaws limit 'mean' roof height (halfway up the slope). Peak is at 25' I believe.

 

[slow]

somewhere I saw pictures of a place with a 2 gar garage for the daily cars on the main floor of the house, and then a driveway around the side of the house with access to a complete basement garage. This did 3 things, made the house look average from the street, gave a huge amount of space for the working garage and separated the clean and dirty areas, as well as allowed far more garage space than the hilly lot would have otherwise allowed. no idea if that would work in this location or not.

 

[Brian_P]

Apologies for not responding personally to all of you. Appreciate all of the advice thus far!

It does seem like finding a way to go vertically, use hilly terrain to hide height, and avoid sprawling too far horizontally would yield better separation of clean and dirty areas as well as allow more usable square footage in the structure. Separating those areas horizontally seems to require a structure somewhat like a garage with an RV bay, which is hard to fit (logistically and cosmetically) alongside a smaller midcentury home in the woods.

Appreciate the comments on structure for that. I had assumed building vertically or into a hillside would add a ton of expense. It may be worth looking into it a bit more, as the concrete expense would presumably be balanced by the need for a smaller footprint/roof/etc.

 

[tarmy]

Couple guys brought up clean vs dirty. I weld, have a table saw and do all kinds of dirty things. I have an air handler and an outside table with a hold for a vice for grinding and metal dust.

 

[Brian_P]

Couple guys brought up clean vs dirty. I weld, have a table saw and do all kinds of dirty things. I have an air handler and an outside table with a hold for a vice for grinding and metal dust.

That’s a great idea. I tend to do work when time permits, so weather and light can be an issue, but a lean-to with light and a propane heater could push some of the really dirty projects outside. Gas welding and paint might still be issues, but getting grinding outside could at least reduce the amount of times the shop needs to be cleaned fully.

 

[fourjeepin]

If the property isn’t level, what about a daily driver garage on the main level with a garage/workshop below?

 

[CraigStu]

It can slow down some projects but I also do stuff outdoors. I have an old radial arm saw mounted on a heavy duty chest w/ large wheels. 28x32 garage but that thing gets wheeled out to the driveway when needed. I have a velcroed in remote opener in one car so I shove that in a shirt pocket and use it to get me in and out of the garage between cuts as needed.

 

[SouthernIllinois]

I am also trying to combine a patio, indoor lounge, daily driver garage and shop in one building.

Where I am a pole barn made the most sense.

I am in the process of building a 68' X 36' X 12' barn. 56' X 36 enclosed, 12 X 36' carport for patio.
Although I am on 15 acres, it is the largest building I could fit where I want it and even that required moving a 24'X24' garage, a carport, a 16' X 20' Amish shed and removing 19 trees.

My plan is to use the far bay, the furthest from the patio for the zero turn mower, lawn stuff, JD Gator, little Toyota truck and warehouse shelving for storage.

The middle bay will be for daily driver (wife's car) and my F250 if needed.

The bay nearest the patio for projects. When I am doing anything dirty, I will just back the wife's car out.

The 16' X 36' area nearest the patio without a garage door will be multi-use. Work are and lounge. It will also have a utility room with water heater, urinal, air compressor and a hanging closet for coveralls, boots and work clothes.

In that 16' X 36' area I will also have a fridge, deep sink, tool boxes and a free standing steel table that can double as a work bench or bar top.

The 36' X 12' carport will have a double deep sink, grill, flat-top, smoker and picnic table.

 

[dcg9381]

A pole barn is not an option - it just isn’t a part of the country where that would work from an architecture/resale perspective.

It's just a structure. Throw a "brick ledge" on it and you can make it look like anything you want. Add a copula or trim it in a way to match the house.

Ain't no one going to bark about 4-cars+ worth of garage space. I get that not everyone wants a pole barn.

I’m not aware of any/many architects who think deeply about functional shop design, and curious if anyone here has thought through the question already and built or designed an attractive (wife-approved) solution to the question? I’m lucky enough to be older than I used to be, and might be able to swing the cost of a nicer structure than early in my career.

For us, I've found that I provide a "standard garage" for the spouse. None of my tools go in it and I don't work in it.

The two options I've used:

1) Build a 2nd "free standing" (or attach with a breezeway depending on local requirements) 2nd garage/shop. The first one I did had a masonry face and matched the house. Regular cars are in the attached garage. My stuff in detached.

2) Shop.. Again, face it in whatever architecturally, but my truck, all my tools, and I do all my work down at the shop. On "a few acres" you can probably hide it pretty well. We eventually enclosed the lean-to portion of the shop and it's now dedicated "wood shop" - so none of that **** gets on the cars or into the rest of the shop... That's the "division" in that building.

 

[Steve W.]

Friends of mine have what looks like a ranch house with a 3-car garage on the side.
House is a bit lower than the road and looks like this:



It's not obvious from the street, but if you continue down, past the garage, the driveway circles back to the other end of the house, where there is a HUGE garage that holds the 40' Class A motorhome and a 7x14' trailer to haul the motorcycle.


Yeah, it's all custom-built, and a very entertainment-friendly layout.

.

 

[Brian_P]

I am also trying to combine a patio, indoor lounge, daily driver garage and shop in one building.

Where I am a pole barn made the most sense.

I am in the process of building a 68' X 36' X 12' barn. 56' X 36 enclosed, 12 X 36' carport for patio.
Although I am on 15 acres, it is the largest building I could fit where I want it and even that required moving a 24'X24' garage, a carport, a 16' X 20' Amish shed and removing 19 trees.

My plan is to use the far bay, the furthest from the patio for the zero turn mower, lawn stuff, JD Gator, little Toyota truck and warehouse shelving for storage.

The middle bay will be for daily driver (wife's car) and my F250 if needed.

The bay nearest the patio for projects. When I am doing anything dirty, I will just back the wife's car out.

The 16' X 36' area nearest the patio without a garage door will be multi-use. Work are and lounge. It will also have a utility room with water heater, urinal, air compressor and a hanging closet for coveralls, boots and work clothes.

In that 16' X 36' area I will also have a fridge, deep sink, tool boxes and a free standing steel table that can double as a work bench or bar top.

The 36' X 12' carport will have a double deep sink, grill, flat-top, smoker and picnic table.

I like it! Seems thoughtfully designed to serve multiple purposes concurrently.

Friends of mine have what looks like a ranch house with a 3-car garage on the side.
House is a bit lower than the road and looks like this:



It's not obvious from the street, but if you continue down, past the garage, the driveway circles back to the other end of the house, where there is a HUGE garage that holds the 40' Class A motorhome and a 7x14' trailer to haul the motorcycle.


Yeah, it's all custom-built, and a very entertainment-friendly layout.

.

Yeah... seems like a recurring theme here. If you want to hide shop space in a cosmetically appealing fashion (and don't have access to a nice old building or something), building on multiple levels is the ideal solution. Your friends did a nice job with that.

Re the pole barn suggestions, the two limitations are building on a hillside covered in trees (that I'd rather not clearcut) and that my wife would like something to fit with a modest sized midcentury home. Where I'm originally from, you just build a timber-framed barn, and no one bats an eye at it being twice the size of the house. Fits right in. But that isn't a great fit for the area/architecture we're looking at. I'll figure something interesting out, I'm sure, but the ideas on how to integrate multiple uses in one structure are helpful!