Combo mill lathe.
- Thread starter Wilmat93
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manwithtools
ALLIANCE MEMBER
In a word, No. They are like any other multi purpose machine, they don't excel at anything and they are always set up to do something other then what you want to do at the moment.
Also, most of them have questionable accuracy. I'd recommend small separate machines over the combos. All the small equipment will have limitations and require some fine tuning, but they are great to learn on.
Also, most of them have questionable accuracy. I'd recommend small separate machines over the combos. All the small equipment will have limitations and require some fine tuning, but they are great to learn on.
Concur. I've never been anything but frustrated trying to use these tiny tools to do any job I had but yep, you could learn something. If it's for learning you might consider a class instead and figure out what you really want.
If you have the space and electric available, it may be worth looking into a Bridgeport, or similar milling machine, and a small lathe.
I chose to go this route and was able to get both pieces of equipment for roughly the same cost of a combination machine.
A few of the benifits are
- A more ridged machine
- dedicated machines for ease of setup
- major availability of parts and documentation
-more enjoyable use.
A few of the downfalls
-machinery is usually much heavier
-not portable
-may have to contend with upgraded power or phase converters.....or VFDs
-machines in that price range will often need work or restoration.
Ultimately you will have a good time with either route you choose especially if you aren't planning on doing a ton of large heavy duty jobs.
Good luck!
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I chose to go this route and was able to get both pieces of equipment for roughly the same cost of a combination machine.
A few of the benifits are
- A more ridged machine
- dedicated machines for ease of setup
- major availability of parts and documentation
-more enjoyable use.
A few of the downfalls
-machinery is usually much heavier
-not portable
-may have to contend with upgraded power or phase converters.....or VFDs
-machines in that price range will often need work or restoration.
Ultimately you will have a good time with either route you choose especially if you aren't planning on doing a ton of large heavy duty jobs.
Good luck!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
It is not just accuracy, it is repeatability ! Drill/mill machines have the same problem because the head is not permanently attached to the column and/or the column is not permanently attached to the base which the table is mounted on.
HanShotFirst
Well-known member
I have owned one before. Now I have a knee mill and a lathe. It really depends on what you want to do with it. A quality combo machine is much better than most give them credit, especially if you're creative. However, they value depreciate horribly, so the best way to get one is used. They are good for limited space. But if you see yourself doing a good deal of machine work, you would be better served with dedicated machines.
I have an Atlas Lathe with a milling attachment and I can do a LOT of milling on that lathe, but it has to be smaller pieces; and it's a very good lathe...something to consider.
I have an Atlas Lathe with a milling attachment and I can do a LOT of milling on that lathe, but it has to be smaller pieces; and it's a very good lathe...something to consider.
Do you know what you'll be using it for? How much room you have?
In defense of the combos a member here, zmotorsports, had a combo for a long time before he recently went to PM lathe/mill machines. I recall him saying he used it quite a bit to make random parts and even made money from the said parts. Smithy's are also well designed machines from what I hear and see on youtube but they're not cheap if that's the primary reason to buy a combo.
As HanShotFirst said a decent lathe with a milling attachment (it's really just an angular bracket/table (usually $100-$150 at least for my 9x20 Grizzly G4000) will work for most light duty/small parts. You can then upgrade if you feel you need a dedicated milling machine. On the other hand if you primarily need a milling machine then I'd start there.
The round column mill/drills get a bad rap too but like most things you figure a way around the short comings unless you have the budget, space or desire to get a real mill but who's to say what a real mill is? Many will say an older Bridgeport but I think that boat is sailing too as the CNC mills are coming up on craigslist for not a lot more money than what people want for their manual BPs. Sky's the limit if you let it
I have one it works.
One question outside of a lathe how do you set something on centers? The bench top centers I have seen cost more than the combo.
I have checked a bunch of shafts, great for polishing stuff. The mill works your not getting .0002 accuracy but most stuff can be happy with a couple of thousands.
The next debate you will get hit with is buy R8 over morse taper, but I have found there is enough MT tooling if you look.
One question outside of a lathe how do you set something on centers? The bench top centers I have seen cost more than the combo.
I have checked a bunch of shafts, great for polishing stuff. The mill works your not getting .0002 accuracy but most stuff can be happy with a couple of thousands.
The next debate you will get hit with is buy R8 over morse taper, but I have found there is enough MT tooling if you look.
manwithtools
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Can you explain this a bit more? I don't understand your question.
If you have to check the run out on shafts you place it between centers.
The easiest way of doing it is on the lathe. I priced a toolroom centers setup and it was 3k I paid less than half that for the combo.
It was more of a question to provoke thought if you have uses for it, the pay off comes back rather quickly. Having something gives you more options.
The real cost comes with the tooling more than the lathe/3in1, dead centers are cheap live spinning centers can be expensive.
The easiest way of doing it is on the lathe. I priced a toolroom centers setup and it was 3k I paid less than half that for the combo.
It was more of a question to provoke thought if you have uses for it, the pay off comes back rather quickly. Having something gives you more options.
The real cost comes with the tooling more than the lathe/3in1, dead centers are cheap live spinning centers can be expensive.
manwithtools
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Still don't understand your point. On a dedicated lathe you do this the same way as a combo machine. A dial indicator on the cross slide and you have an instant run-out measurement. Hence, a combo machine offers no advantage over a dedicated lathe or mill, if you have a separate mill and lathe; which is what I spoke to earlier.
It's true for all equipment, good tooling is expensive.
If it works for you, that's all that matters.
It's true for all equipment, good tooling is expensive.
If it works for you, that's all that matters.
Anything I ever cared about runout on had bearing journals. Best/easy way I know of to check runout is to set the bearing journals on v-blocks with a thin piece of lead between it and journal then spin with your dial indicator on the coupling. I've seen too many centers be off.
The point was not in comparisons to stand alone mill or lathe.
The point was compared to a tool room centering device costing twice as much as the 3in1. When I bought the 3in1 I expected machining to be most used not checking shafts for run out.
vettex2
Banned
They have a use. It all depends what you want.
For producing a bunch of one thing, no.
For one off small parts for a project, yes.
For producing a bunch of one thing, no.
For one off small parts for a project, yes.
txvwnut
Well-known member
My first setup was a Smithy 1220XL. I did a lot with that machine, bored too many veedub cases to count as well as cylinder heads. Made a bit of tooling for my veedub specific work and many other things.
If you have a tight budget and a tight shop a 3in1 is a good choice. When I had mine I had many machinists come in the shop see it say they wanted one to have in their garage.
Any machine is only as tight the machinist running it so saying they are loose or won't go to a certain decimal point is bs. I ran the Smithy to some pretty tight stuff and had no problem getting some repeatability on it if there were multiple parts needed. It all in the setup, any machinist worth his salt will tell you that. Now I have seen some 3in1's that wouldn't even make a good boat anchor anything with the Shopmaster name on it is in this catagory.
If you have a tight budget and a tight shop a 3in1 is a good choice. When I had mine I had many machinists come in the shop see it say they wanted one to have in their garage.
Any machine is only as tight the machinist running it so saying they are loose or won't go to a certain decimal point is bs. I ran the Smithy to some pretty tight stuff and had no problem getting some repeatability on it if there were multiple parts needed. It all in the setup, any machinist worth his salt will tell you that. Now I have seen some 3in1's that wouldn't even make a good boat anchor anything with the Shopmaster name on it is in this catagory.
astroracer
Well-known member
I've had my Smithy combo since 1992. It ran production for 15 years on a whole catalog full of aluminum model car parts, from 1/25th all the way up to 1/8th. The quality and consistency was just as good as any other small lathe I have ever ran. Having had it for 25 years with no breakage other then a worn out on/off switch I can vouch for the durability and usefulness. I have a Jet lathe also but the Smithy is still my go to machine for most of my lathe needs. The jet has threading capabilities' and that's about all it does
Don't let anyone dissuade you away from one of these machines. The current generation is far better, option and quality wise, then my old combo and I don't hesitate one bit to recommend one to anyone who is looking for a small footprint machine with a little versatility.
Mark
Don't let anyone dissuade you away from one of these machines. The current generation is far better, option and quality wise, then my old combo and I don't hesitate one bit to recommend one to anyone who is looking for a small footprint machine with a little versatility.
Mark
astroracer
Well-known member
Not everyone is saying don't get one. If it's what you have room for and you have no use for a huge lathe or mill these little machines can do a lot of good work. Just don't expect them to do big pieces of billet or real long items. They do have their limitations of course.
As far as accuracy and repeatability I have no problems holding .001/.002 over hundreds of pieces on my 25 year old Smithy. .0001 repeatability is very doable.
This is mine sitting on a HF 44" roller cabinet.
Mark
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If space is at a premium and if most of your projects are fairly small, then yes they are definitely worth having.
ilovevocs
Well-known member
I have a 3 in 1 that was my first machine tool.
After owning it for a while I am officially sick of all the work setups take to bounce between lathe and milling operations. It becomes clear why guys with skills and experience shy away from them.
That said I have worked mine to death and would feel fine scraping it tomorrow.
After owning it for a while I am officially sick of all the work setups take to bounce between lathe and milling operations. It becomes clear why guys with skills and experience shy away from them.
That said I have worked mine to death and would feel fine scraping it tomorrow.
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astroracer
Well-known member
Which is why guys with skills and experience shouldn't right these off as good, usable tools. Not only for getting work done but for learning on and using them as a stepping stone to bigger and better equipment.
I used mine for 22 years before I stepped up to a bigger mill. It is nice, now, having the better versatility of the bigger mill but do I just write off the 3 in 1 because it "isn't" as versatile. Nope. I still use it. I do a lot more turning then I do mill work and that's what most people will find. The lathe part is used much more frequently then the mill but, it is nice to have the option when it's needed..
Mark
ilovevocs
Well-known member
^ I have had the same experience as you. Wouldn't change my approach if I were to do it again today.
I spent more on tooling and measuring equipment than I did the machine itself.
Yes a knee mill would be nice. I'm always raising the work piece to keep the quill extended as little as possible.
I don't use mine as a drill press, drilling without the knee is a PITA most of the time.
I have an x y table with vise on the drill press that is a permanent fixture.
When I purchased my machine I did not have the confidence to buy used and didn't have a friend to help me.
I spent more on tooling and measuring equipment than I did the machine itself.
Yes a knee mill would be nice. I'm always raising the work piece to keep the quill extended as little as possible.
I don't use mine as a drill press, drilling without the knee is a PITA most of the time.
I have an x y table with vise on the drill press that is a permanent fixture.
When I purchased my machine I did not have the confidence to buy used and didn't have a friend to help me.
OP hasn't been back since the first post but here's a section for 3-in-1 machines on hobby-machinist that might be helpful to read.
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/forums/smithy-shopmaster-grizzly-other-3-in-1-machines.206/
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/forums/smithy-shopmaster-grizzly-other-3-in-1-machines.206/