Merkava_4
Banned
The dudes weren't dealers; they were some corporate reps. Something happens to the little molecules in the steel when the wrench is bent on a bender; even if it's bent before heat treatment.
Combo Wrenches: Facing Some Tough Choices
- Thread starter jerk_chicken
- Start date
Merkava_4
Banned
No offense but I call BS on that, those guys were yanking your chain
I'm just sayin' what they were sayin'.
I'm just sayin' what they were sayin'.
I would understand it if the bend was made after the HT process but those guys were reaching there!!
back2class
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2009
- Messages
- 2,723
now I know why I keep breaking the box ends off my non snap-on wrenches.
Merkava_4
Banned
One way or another, I'd still like to find out for sure what Snap-on is doing these days.
Merkava_4
Banned
Don't have cable TV........
billymade
Well-known member
For a measly $1.99; you can download it from itunes! here: http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewTVSeason?i=300896519&id=288545262&s=143441
Garage_Mahal
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 31, 2008
- Messages
- 551
Regular heat treating does not significantly relieve the stress of bending. It doesn't really matter on a bent wrench anyway, unless you plan to use it like pry bar in the direction it was bent. The heat treat process itself and the surface finish is going to have a bigger impact on durability that if it was forged with the bend or bent later.
Hazet 600N
Hazet 603
Stahlwille 14 series Open Box
I'm the guy from Taiwan who bought some Hazet stuff online in Germany.
It's definitely doable, just be prepared to pay a lot for shipping.
European shipping rates are high and tools are heavy.
The import taxes are nothing to worry about.
Even after paying the shipping, you still save bigtime on the prices that they're charging in the US or Taiwan. I don't know why the prices are so astronomically high.
Somebody should pull their head out from somewhere...
I bought that set of Hazet 600N last month. I didn't really need them, but it really is an excellent deal.
I already had a full set of Hazet 603 combination wrenches, 5.5 all the way up to 41.
The 603's are a bit shorter than standard and have a lot of offset. The 600N's are long and have flank drive on the box end.
I also have some Stahlwille extra long combination wrenches, which I also bought on sale. The Stahlwilles are finished by tumbling, which gives a really comfortable finish; more smooth but not slippery. I also prefer the well-defined I-beam cross section.
In general, German tools have a lot less finishing. The Hazet 600N's only have the two flat planes on the open-end jaws polished and they are not polished to perfection.
They place the importance on other things.
Hazet 603
Stahlwille 14 series Open Box
I'm the guy from Taiwan who bought some Hazet stuff online in Germany.
It's definitely doable, just be prepared to pay a lot for shipping.
European shipping rates are high and tools are heavy.
The import taxes are nothing to worry about.
Even after paying the shipping, you still save bigtime on the prices that they're charging in the US or Taiwan. I don't know why the prices are so astronomically high.
Somebody should pull their head out from somewhere...I bought that set of Hazet 600N last month. I didn't really need them, but it really is an excellent deal.
I already had a full set of Hazet 603 combination wrenches, 5.5 all the way up to 41.
The 603's are a bit shorter than standard and have a lot of offset. The 600N's are long and have flank drive on the box end.
I also have some Stahlwille extra long combination wrenches, which I also bought on sale. The Stahlwilles are finished by tumbling, which gives a really comfortable finish; more smooth but not slippery. I also prefer the well-defined I-beam cross section.
In general, German tools have a lot less finishing. The Hazet 600N's only have the two flat planes on the open-end jaws polished and they are not polished to perfection.
They place the importance on other things.
Last edited:
billymade
Well-known member
Alfajuj, any tips on German companies/vendors who you bought from; that were international sales friendly? How or where did you find the sales and good deals?
The good thing that they`re not fully polished is that they cost only 1/3 or 1/4th of what SO wants.... And then there are other manufacturers like Wiesemann or Walter which are 50% cheaper than Hazet..... The good thing is that they perform well and fit precisely and that you can apply more torque than thicker wrenches of other manufacturers.
PS: Most people over here doesn`t care about design or flawless finish since they don`t have to pay for the tools and there are more important things like the quality and performance of the tool (Thin box ends, good steel quality (no cracking of tools), rough finish so you can hold and grip the tools better, longlivety etc.). So they put more attention to these things
@Alfajuj: what sockets etc. do you have ?
And then there are other manufacturers like Wiesemann or Walter which are 50% cheaper than Hazet..... The good thing is that they perform well and fit precisely and that you can apply more torque than thicker wrenches of other manufacturers. PS: Most people over here doesn`t care about design or flawless finish since they don`t have to pay for the tools and there are more important things like the quality and performance of the tool (Thin box ends, good steel quality (no cracking of tools), rough finish so you can hold and grip the tools better, longlivety etc.). So they put more attention to these things
@Alfajuj: what sockets etc. do you have ?
The good thing that they`re not fully polished is that they cost only 1/3 or 1/4th of what SO wants....
PS: Most people over here doesn`t care about design or flawless finish since they don`t have to pay for the tools and there are more important things like the quality and performance of the tool (Thin box ends, good steel quality (no cracking of tools), rough finish so you can hold and grip the tools better, longlivety etc.). So they put more attention to these things
@Alfajuj: what sockets etc. do you have ?
Hazet 882, a combination of 1/4" and 3/8" sockets and bits.
This is the most convenient socket set ever.
Hazet 900 1/2" set
Koken 3277 3/8" deep well
I've also got some other Japanese sockets such as Flag and Koda. The Koda ratchet looks EXACTLY like a Proto.
I also have a single slightly abused Snap On 11/16" 1/2" drive socket (the only Snap On tool I own
) From the date code, I can see that it dates to 1957. I think it belongs to my grandfather and I took it to Taiwan with me on accident.Attachments
Last edited:
I've bought from the following two:
http://www.weltweitwerkzeug.net/ (Hazet)
http://www.fluidonline.de/ (Stahlwille)
They were both very kind and helpful. The websites are not in English, but when you email them, they reply in English. I prepaid them by bank wire transfer. When they quote you, remind them that the EU tax does not apply to products shipped outside the EU.
I also had contact with these companies and they were also willing to ship to me but I haven't bought from them yet.
http://www.inox-schrauben.de/index.php?cPath=218&osCsid=ceba1e52c9e9ad865569b7f6896cc33c
http://www.weiner-autoteile.de/frameset.html
All the other companies were unwilling to ship outside of the EU. I sent emails to every single german online retailer I could find. Many ignored me. I even asked them why they would not ship outside the EU, but they did not give me a reason. I was annoyed by this because the site with the best selection and best prices on Hazet (tbs-aachen.de) just said: "we do not ship to Taiwan, we sell only in the EU". I sent him a long letter about why it is risk free to sell to me and so on, but he never replied
Last edited:
Thanks Monte,
I'm very happy with my Hazet tools. I can't stop buying more and more. The majority of my tools are Hazet.
Besides the sockets, I've got Hazet wrenches, 600N and the full 30 wrench set of 603 (5,5mm ~ 41mm), some 625 box wrenches, A torx tool set 1557/22 in metal case, some pliers, and also some Hazet screwdrivers. (I suspect that Hazet screwdrivers are made by Witte because they bear a strong family resemblance to the Witte screwdrivers I own.) Of course Hazet doesn't make every single tool in the catalog by themselves. Their biggest strength is their wrenches and sockets.
Most of my other tools are Wiha, Knipex, Stahlwille, Ko-ken, Gedore, Witte and Schroeder.
Yes, I do have a Ko-ken attack driver. That's a must-have tool. They totally dominate the market here in Taiwan.
What's in your tool box?
I'm very happy with my Hazet tools. I can't stop buying more and more. The majority of my tools are Hazet.
Besides the sockets, I've got Hazet wrenches, 600N and the full 30 wrench set of 603 (5,5mm ~ 41mm), some 625 box wrenches, A torx tool set 1557/22 in metal case, some pliers, and also some Hazet screwdrivers. (I suspect that Hazet screwdrivers are made by Witte because they bear a strong family resemblance to the Witte screwdrivers I own.) Of course Hazet doesn't make every single tool in the catalog by themselves. Their biggest strength is their wrenches and sockets.
Most of my other tools are Wiha, Knipex, Stahlwille, Ko-ken, Gedore, Witte and Schroeder.
Yes, I do have a Ko-ken attack driver. That's a must-have tool. They totally dominate the market here in Taiwan.
What's in your tool box?
@Alfajuj: I guess you mean these screwdrivers:
Witte owns a patent for this fuzzy fur stuff on "tool handles"
ps: i just ordered the ko-ken AG112A ... couldn`t resist for 35$...
My drive tools (1/4,3/8,1/2") are all from Hazet (SAE + metric), pliers from Knipex, Wera screwdrivers and a mix from everything... Wiha, witte, Gedore, Wille, ...you name it...
The new additions from this and last year you`ll find in the "tools from the...." thread
@Jerk: already made a decision ?
Witte owns a patent for this fuzzy fur stuff on "tool handles"
ps: i just ordered the ko-ken AG112A ... couldn`t resist for 35$...
My drive tools (1/4,3/8,1/2") are all from Hazet (SAE + metric), pliers from Knipex, Wera screwdrivers and a mix from everything... Wiha, witte, Gedore, Wille, ...you name it...
The new additions from this and last year you`ll find in the "tools from the...." thread
@Jerk: already made a decision ?
OP
jerk_chicken
Banned
Monte,
I'm definitely getting the 600n, but it's a matter of the timeframe. Gotta get the money together and I have a big wishlist of toolsets I want from Hazet, Wera, and Gedore. So it's not a matter of whether or not I will get it, but in what order. My next order might be a Hazet 882 set, which might go well with a 600n set, though I don't know which one. I'd like to finish of my Zyklop collection with the 1/4 and 3/8 also. I'd like to get a larger set for the 600, but there are a few sizes missing at the bigger end. Getting them could be a bit expensive.
I'm definitely getting the 600n, but it's a matter of the timeframe. Gotta get the money together and I have a big wishlist of toolsets I want from Hazet, Wera, and Gedore. So it's not a matter of whether or not I will get it, but in what order. My next order might be a Hazet 882 set, which might go well with a 600n set, though I don't know which one. I'd like to finish of my Zyklop collection with the 1/4 and 3/8 also. I'd like to get a larger set for the 600, but there are a few sizes missing at the bigger end. Getting them could be a bit expensive.
Last edited:
Merkava_4
Banned
I'd imagine an imported set of Cornwell combination wrenches would be pretty rare and exotic over in Germany.
Yeah, the 882 is definitely the handiest socket set ever. It covers a lot in one set. The only thing I really wish it had is a sliding-T or a breaker bar for the 3/8 drive.
OP
jerk_chicken
Banned
My complaint too, even though I've never used one in the past. I agree; breaker bar or T-Bar.
@Alfajuj: I guess you mean these screwdrivers:
Witte owns a patent for this fuzzy fur stuff on "tool handles"
ps: i just ordered the ko-ken AG112A ... couldn`t resist for 35$...
My drive tools (1/4,3/8,1/2") are all from Hazet (SAE + metric), pliers from Knipex, Wera screwdrivers and a mix from everything... Wiha, witte, Gedore, Wille, ...you name it...
The new additions from this and last year you`ll find in the "tools from the...." thread
I notice a lot of things like that when looking at the catalogs. The Hazet L-hex key holder looks like HaFu. Their T-handle hex keys look like Witte.
The Stahlwille L-hex key holders and T-handle hex keys look like Wiha and their screwdrivers look like Felo.
So that raises the question, If you buy a Hazet screwdriver, it'll cost a lot more than an equivalent Witte (Witte Maxxpro Plus, in this case) ... so is the Witte equal in quality and specification to the Hazet, just because it was made in the same factory? Or is the Hazet made to a higher spec? If not, then it makes sense to just buy the Witte.
Last edited:
billymade
Well-known member
I'm no Hazet expert but looking through their catalog; it seems to pretty obvious they have a number of oems outsourcing quite a few of their tools. Of course this isn't unique, look through any catalog of any tool company today and this is the case; I just don't think tool companies can make everything or its cost effective to do so.... its cheaper to "rebadge" other companies tools, so they can offer a full line of everything. The more I look at German tool catalogs, the more I see tools that look similar to each other; this the the same issue in the USA with OEMs making certain items and everyone putting their own unique name on them (private labeling).
Cat I was looking at: http://www.hazet.de/fileadmin/media/easyflip/sww/Start.html
Cat I was looking at: http://www.hazet.de/fileadmin/media/easyflip/sww/Start.html
Last edited:
OP
jerk_chicken
Banned
I think one must pick and choose according to what they make that's good quality and works. All of those toolmakers in Germany and Switzerland seem to not be competing as fiercely as one would assume, considering they are sharing products that one may make that another doesn't. They all benefit in bringing a fuller line to market. It's always a mystery whether or not material and quality spec is customized to the private label, or the same as the subcontractor's, especially now that people are seeing holes in quality in portions of tool lines.
Hell, look at Wiha US's hand tools. They're all Heyco, and not even declared as such until you look close at the socket pics, and then compare the set pictures with the Heyco catalog. Hell, lots of their image locations have Heyco in the name.
Hell, look at Wiha US's hand tools. They're all Heyco, and not even declared as such until you look close at the socket pics, and then compare the set pictures with the Heyco catalog. Hell, lots of their image locations have Heyco in the name.
you can find HaFu almost everywhere since they only make allen keys (torx, hex etc.) and only hex and torx screwdrivers and t-handles. So if you produce a couple of million of such keys a year for decades then usually have a good product which then also can be produced at reasonable costs even over here. From the Hafu website:
"As a leading specialist manufacturer of top quality hexagon and TORX® tools, HaFu combines the highest quality standards with a competitive pricing structure. The company's own comprehensive production facilities - from wire drawing plant to state-of-the-art CNC controlled machinery - plus in-house innovative technical developments, ensure HaFu consistently achieves unrivalled quality control, throughout the manufacturing process. In addition to producing hexagon and hexagon ballpoint, HaFu has the distinction of being the original licensee for TORX®, TORX® ball and TORXplus®. "
It`s no secret that almost all manufacturers buy from other manufacturers like Billymade already said. If you look through the Hazet catalogue you`ll see products from Bollmann, Wezag, Gedore, haunstetter, Ticom, Weldy, Felo, Völkel, Grip-On, KoKen, Gearwrench, USH, Jokari, Hafu, Pressol ....just to name some. While most of them are made here (Wezag crimping tools, Jokari wire strippers, Gedore pullers, Bollmann locking pliers,USH bits, PUK saws etc. ...felo,ticom,hafu etc...) some are sourced from all over the world where the patent holder and/or manufacturer makes them like the plastic hose pinch off pliers from australia, the thread restoring tools from israel, hand impact driver from japan, some are even from the USA AFAIK the old style ratcheting wrenches, the radio removal tool (SIR tools), and brake bleeder. There are also small companies which solely or mostly produce for other companies (private label). if you look here: click Maybe you have seen some of their spark plug pliers and brake bleeder wrenches somewhere (maybe in the Hazet catalog )
Most smaller manufacturers are specialised like this one: Some electronic pliers from "Schmitz" which you might have seen: click , here you can find tire levers, prybars and lug wrenches: click or this one make only 1 product: click
As for Witte, they have only one cheaper line of tools which is the Triax series: click It`s for "Household" and "hobby" as their catalog states, but look at the pics and then you already see the difference.. The Hazet screwdriver blades look exactly like the Maxxpro or Protop line.
PS: A Hazet screwdriver set is always on sale every year which cost you about 25.- Euro for 5 pieces which is a good price.
"As a leading specialist manufacturer of top quality hexagon and TORX® tools, HaFu combines the highest quality standards with a competitive pricing structure. The company's own comprehensive production facilities - from wire drawing plant to state-of-the-art CNC controlled machinery - plus in-house innovative technical developments, ensure HaFu consistently achieves unrivalled quality control, throughout the manufacturing process. In addition to producing hexagon and hexagon ballpoint, HaFu has the distinction of being the original licensee for TORX®, TORX® ball and TORXplus®. "
It`s no secret that almost all manufacturers buy from other manufacturers like Billymade already said. If you look through the Hazet catalogue you`ll see products from Bollmann, Wezag, Gedore, haunstetter, Ticom, Weldy, Felo, Völkel, Grip-On, KoKen, Gearwrench, USH, Jokari, Hafu, Pressol ....just to name some. While most of them are made here (Wezag crimping tools, Jokari wire strippers, Gedore pullers, Bollmann locking pliers,USH bits, PUK saws etc. ...felo,ticom,hafu etc...) some are sourced from all over the world where the patent holder and/or manufacturer makes them like the plastic hose pinch off pliers from australia, the thread restoring tools from israel, hand impact driver from japan, some are even from the USA AFAIK the old style ratcheting wrenches, the radio removal tool (SIR tools), and brake bleeder. There are also small companies which solely or mostly produce for other companies (private label). if you look here: click Maybe you have seen some of their spark plug pliers and brake bleeder wrenches somewhere (maybe in the Hazet catalog
) Most smaller manufacturers are specialised like this one: Some electronic pliers from "Schmitz" which you might have seen: click , here you can find tire levers, prybars and lug wrenches: click or this one make only 1 product: click
As for Witte, they have only one cheaper line of tools which is the Triax series: click It`s for "Household" and "hobby" as their catalog states, but look at the pics and then you already see the difference.. The Hazet screwdriver blades look exactly like the Maxxpro or Protop line.
PS: A Hazet screwdriver set is always on sale every year which cost you about 25.- Euro for 5 pieces which is a good price.