Comments on DIY subpanel upgrade?

[panini]

Over the weekend upgraded my old subpanel in garage to new one with more spots - was a mess before and now it feels good.
Learned a lot from this forum and of course youtube. Have few more things to finish up before inspector comes down next month.
City charges upwards of $275 for inspection alone, so any comments on code violations that I can fix up before he shows up?

Before:


After

 

[inphx]

Please take a pic angled down on the clamps used - pretty sure those need to match the cable type.

Add your location too - maybe a local can help you out.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

wow good thing you upgraded cause the old panel had a bonded neutral

 

[Norcal]

That PVC terminal adapter is not kosher.

 

[mm08822]

The upper left circled blk/red wire are on same twin cb. Need to be on opposite phases and require handle tie.
The lower right cb will need a handle tie between red/blk pair.
Clean up wiring in lower right. Bring all cables into panel with appropriate connectors.

This is an attached garage?

 

[Innovate1]

Lots of issues but think they all have been covered. It looks like the old and new panels are the same brand (labels are hard to see in the second pic). Should have kept the cable clamps and could have reused some of the old breakers instead of all those duals. Why all the duals in the new large box?
The cable below with the sheath short of the box - if the wire can't be moved so the sheath can be clamped to the box you are going to have to enclose the individual strands. Might be able to use a short piece of conduit with a clamp on the lower end.
Not clear how the lower metal flex line is attached to the box - it's hidden by the drywall. Guessing it may not be properly clamped based on the other things that can be seen.

 

[Norcal]

Lots of issues but think they all have been covered. It looks like the old and new panels are the same brand (labels are hard to see in the second pic). Should have kept the cable clamps and could have reused some of the old breakers instead of all those duals. Why all the duals in the new large box?
The cable below with the sheath short of the box - if the wire can't be moved so the sheath can be clamped to the box you are going to have to enclose the individual strands. Might be able to use a short piece of conduit with a clamp on the lower end.
Not clear how the lower metal flex line is attached to the box - it's hidden by the drywall. Guessing it may not be properly clamped based on the other things that can be seen.

The OP went cheap and used Homeline instead of the original QO. In my opinion a new panel full of twin breakers is cheesy, it reeks of a slapped together tract home, & a multiwire circuit on a other then a GE twin breaker is really asking for trouble as already pointed out.

 

[panini]

Please take a pic angled down on the clamps used - pretty sure those need to match the cable type.

Add your location too - maybe a local can help you out.

Sure, here is the pic and I am in San Fransisco Bay Area, CA.

That PVC terminal adapter is not kosher.

I am not native English speaker, so I am uncertain what that means but Googling shows below meaning:

: not sanctioned by Jewish law. a nonkosher diet. especially : not ritually fit for use. nonkosher meats. : not selling, providing, or serving kosher food.

So I guess what you mean here is PVC is not OK here to bring in the service cable? Should I go with 2in lock clamps and nuts?

The upper left circled blk/red wire are on same twin cb. Need to be on opposite phases and require handle tie.
The lower right cb will need a handle tie between red/blk pair.
Clean up wiring in lower right. Bring all cables into panel with appropriate connectors.

This is an attached garage?

Yes, this is attached garage. I will move the red and black hots to different breakers that land different phases. Is this to make sure the return current on the neutral cancels out?


Here are the additional pics:

Close up of the tandems and double breakers:


Pic of the old panel sticker:

 

[panini]

Lots of issues but think they all have been covered. It looks like the old and new panels are the same brand (labels are hard to see in the second pic). Should have kept the cable clamps and could have reused some of the old breakers instead of all those duals. Why all the duals in the new large box?
The cable below with the sheath short of the box - if the wire can't be moved so the sheath can be clamped to the box you are going to have to enclose the individual strands. Might be able to use a short piece of conduit with a clamp on the lower end.
Not clear how the lower metal flex line is attached to the box - it's hidden by the drywall. Guessing it may not be properly clamped based on the other things that can be seen.

Yes, old and new panels are from Square D. Not sure how old is the old one though but it almost appears that it came with the house - house was built in 1968 FWIW.

For breakers, I was just matching to what was already there - if it was tandem before, I just went ahead new Tandems. The old breakers and new panel weren't compatible - the old ones were slim and when I tried putting them on new panel, they were not secure and just dangling on the spot which didn't feel safe to reuse.

The cables below, one in the center - its for the electric stove and that isn't used anymore as old owners moved to gas stove. I plan to keep the wires so in case in future we move to Induction, which I feel won't be done until its forced upon us.
The next set of cable with yellow electrical tape - its 8/3 NM cable that is wired to AC. This wire goes in behind the wall to crawlspace and outside. Since its not code to use NM cable for crawlspace, I am going to take it out and move it 8AWG THWN (separate R/B/G) and run that in conduit.
The lower flex metal is empty - I will cut it off. I don't know what tool to use to cut it off ( and I am researching the name of the tool).

So for the bottom - there will be existing stove wire (which the conduit needs fixing) and then new set of wires and conduit for the AC. I just got the wires delivered to me today, so will upgrade the AC wires this weekend, weather permitting.

 

[panini]

The OP went cheap and used Homeline instead of the original QO. In my opinion a new panel full of twin breakers is cheesy, it reeks of a slapped together tract home, & a multiwire circuit on a other then a GE twin breaker is really asking for trouble as already pointed out.

Being cheap wasn't the intention. I wasn't even aware that QO are out there and they are better?
Googling homeline vs QO: https://www.galvinpower.org/square-d-qo-vs-homeline/

It appears that QO is superior in two aspects - copper bus bar and clamps-free wire routing.
I don't know how big of a deal the copper bus bar is - recently was in Costco and saw there commercial box and it had same bus as mine. If they are surviving, will I not?
Again, for nominal household electrical load, does QO makes difference? If yes, I will donate/giveaway this panel and get QO.

As told before, reason for tandems was to just match what was there in old panel. I am still in return window for those breakers, so I will swap them to single breakers over weekend.

Didn't know the multiwire circuit should land on different phases - I believe its to cancel load return current on the neutral, right? I will address it when I get new set of breakers.

 

[Wrench97]

What's with the 2x4 hanging in mid air above the box ?

 

[panini]

What's with the 2x4 hanging in mid air above the box ?

Not sure, the distance between that and one on its right is just 12inches unlike standard studs distance of 16inch apart. It almost feels like it was placed for the old panel to hang out? Only guesses at this time.
Will that be an issue at inspection?

 

[mike93lx]

Not sure, the distance between that and one on its right is just 12inches unlike standard studs distance of 16inch apart. It almost feels like it was placed for the old panel to hang out? Only guesses at this time.
Will that be an issue at inspection?

Not an electrical inspection, but it may indicate a framing issue.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I am not native English speaker, so I am uncertain what that ("not kosher") means but Googling shows below meaning:

So I guess what you mean here is PVC is not OK here to bring in the service cable? Should I go with 2in lock clamps and nuts?

"Not kosher" simply means "not correct". The issue is not the fact that it is PVC. The issue is it is not providing the proper clamping of the incoming cable. The 2" lock clamp and nut should be correct.

Yes, this is attached garage. I will move the red and black hots to different breakers that land different phases.
Here are the additional pics:

Close up of the tandems and double breakers:

Someone sold you the wrong breaker for use on 240V circuits ! As you said, those are "tandem" breakers. They can be used with 2 separate, 120V circuits. 240V circuits require a double breaker. 2 "full sized" breakers, built together with a single handle operating both.

You have one at the bottom left of the panel, with only one wire attached, which is also incorrect.

Remove the second breaker and the wires on the top left. Remove the third breaker on the top left, leaving the wires attached, and move it down a slot. Remove the breaker and the wire on the bottom left. Insert that double breaker into the second and third slots (it will use both) on the left. Connect the black and read wires there.

What are the big wires coming out of the bottom for ? Where to they go ? You will need a different clamp for them also.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Being cheap wasn't the intention. I wasn't even aware that QO are out there and they are better?
Googling homeline vs QO: https://www.galvinpower.org/square-d-qo-vs-homeline/

It appears that QO is superior in two aspects - copper bus bar and clamps-free wire routing.
I don't know how big of a deal the copper bus bar is - recently was in Costco and saw there commercial box and it had same bus as mine.

Homeline is fine for residential applications

Didn't know the multiwire circuit should land on different phases - I believe its to cancel load return current on the neutral, right? I will address it when I get new set of breakers.

Multiwire branch circuits are NOT COMMON. We caught. Don't worry.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

the NM-b in those clamps need to be rotated so they are flat against the clamp not sideways

 

[Innovate1]

So I guess what you mean here is PVC is not OK here to bring in the service cable? Should I go with 2in lock clamps and nuts?


Yes, this is attached garage. I will move the red and black hots to different breakers that land different phases. Is this to make sure the return current on the neutral cancels out?

The wires need to be clamped where they enter the box. You could have used the clamp on input wire from the old box but the hole may be too big so you need a larger clamp. Use whatever size the hole in the box is.

The next set of cable with yellow electrical tape - its 8/3 NM cable that is wired to AC. This wire goes in behind the wall to crawlspace and outside. Since its not code to use NM cable for crawlspace, I am going to take it out and move it 8AWG THWN (separate R/B/G) and run that in conduit.

So NM cable isn't allowed in crawl spaces? Is that because it is considered a damp location? That may vary due to local interpretation of the code. The lower PVC fitting is ok if you are connecting conduit but if not it needs to be a clamp.

Yes, that's so the neutral currents cancel so the max in the neutral is the same as the max in either hot wire.

I didn't see that the panels were QO and homeline so the breakers aren't interchangable. But homeline is fine. It's what I have here.
QO is better but homeline is fine.

If you want to plan for possible use of the stove circuit in the future I would just connect it now. Years later you may not remember what wires go where. But there may be other reasons involved that I don't know about.

The cut stud is likely not an issue.

Oldwizard said:
You have one at the bottom left of the panel, with only one wire attached, which is also incorrect.
But I think the angle of the photo made it only look like that. Another picture shows the wires not really going to the 50A double pole breaker. That looks correct to me.

With the panel upgrade the AHJ (local Authority Having Jurisdiction which gives permits and inspections) may require you to make other upgrades like GFCI outlets. You will have to check with your local AHJ because this varies with location.

 

[dave*99]

The 50 / dual 20 breaker in the lower left corner is not seated properly. I see you have 2 of that type of breaker. Nothing wrong with the breaker - but it is an expensive solution to a problem you do not have. It's designed to add circuits to a full panel.

Normally you would have a 2 pole 50A and two single pole 20A breakers since you have room in the panel. And in your case, you would repeat that on the other side.

On the left side I see what looks like 3 ground wires twisted together and landed under 1 screw. You might only be allowed 2 wires under 1 screw in that panel.

 

[Zeke]

Np problem with NM here in crawl space as long as it's supported. Draping it over girders is not support.
I think running it perpendicular to and under girders is 'not kosher'.